Mountain Plaza

[LikeHamilton]

Not all are enthralled by plans for new Mountain Plaza mall

Jennifer Villamere July 25, 2008 Mountain News

An open house was held last week to unveil plans and share details about the planned redevelopment of the Mountain Plaza Mall.
Smart Centres, the retail development company that purchased the mall in the fall of 2006, hosted the open house as a way of opening the lines of communication between the mall owners, tenants and the community that the shopping center serves.
Reaction to redevelopment plans has been mixed, at best. The planned redevelopment will see the enclosed shopping center largely leveled and replaced with big box stores.
"Opinion is very divided," admits Christine Cyte, Smart Centres' land development representative. "People are either very excited about the redevelopment and they want to know how soon we can start, or it's a situation where they've been living here for the past 40 years, they've grown up with the mall and they want to see it stay the way it is," she says.
"We're not living in the past," contends Murray Aikman, a past-president of the Hamilton Mountain Heritage Society who is concerned with the proposed redevelopment. "We understand the need for change. But I am concerned about how people will safely move on foot from one end of the complex to the other once the mall is no longer enclosed," he says. "I was told by (Smart Centres) that they were going to provide walkways and so on but nevertheless, if there's a young mother pushing a baby carriage or a person who has a walker or a scooter, it's going to be a bit of a challenge especially in the snow or rain," he says. "A lot of the people that go there currently are Boomer-age and beyond, there's also a lot of young mothers who go there and I think they have appreciated the convenience of being inside up until now."
Cyte says Smart Centres' tenants are demanding the big box overhaul. "An unenclosed shopping center is the format that all of our tenants are looking to us to build. They come to us and they say this is what we want," she says.
Aikman understands that Smart Centres is responding to the needs of the retailers, but wonders who will respond to the needs of the customers. "The reasoning for abandoning the (enclosed) mall concept is that retailers have to contribute financially towards the security, maintenance, heating and cooling of the common areas," he explains. "The stores want to do away with that part of their overhead and be in stand-alone buildings. However, I wonder: Who really cares about the customer in all this?"
His other area of concern is the loss of the mall's community atmosphere. "It's a place where people gather for coffee and to meet with friends," says Aikman. "The new format will cut down on the mingling that you have now."
Cyte allows that the unenclosed format is "something that a lot of people aren't thrilled about." But she points to the mall's crumbling infrastructure as a further indication that change is needed. "Unfortunately, the mall is deteriorating. There are leaks in the roof all over the place," she says. Cyte says Smart Centres is responding to customer feedback like Aikman's concerns by maintaining the enclosed format for a small portion of the mall the far north end, a section of the mall which is currently anchored by a Payless Shoe Source store. "That's where we'll keep a lot of the existing tenants in the mall," she says. "We'll be putting in some small restaurants, there will be benches, there will be seating, there will be places where people can congregate," she says.
Although Smart Centres has yet to attain a few remaining approvals from the the city, the company is hoping to begin construction this fall. Cyte says the first step will to be construct a safer entrance to the site featuring a traffic signal. "After that, we'll start construction of buildings in the parking lot towards Upper James," she says. "That will create enough space so that we can relocate tenants from inside the mall to the new space. After that, we'll start demolition from the south end. The rest of it will keep rolling from there."

[raisethehammer]

quote - "The reasoning for abandoning the (enclosed) mall concept is that retailers have to contribute financially towards the security, maintenance, heating and cooling of the common areas," he explains. "The stores want to do away with that part of their overhead and be in stand-alone buildings. However, I wonder: Who really cares about the customer in all this?"

I can't believe I didn't think of this obvious point up until now.
That's exactly why retailers prefer this crappy box format. Customers are now treated like transport trucks who must back up to each bay and load up instead of being given a humane environment to shop.
If only people weren't so stupid to follow along like dumb sheep eating whatever crap they're fed.
Fight back and demand a decent place to shop and gather in your community.

On the bright side, with centre mall and MPM being destroyed and turned into parking lots/warehouses, this is a golden chance for downtown to see some major revamping in JS to draw new tenants and attract the mall-gathering crowd looking to be indoors.
Not that I expect that to happen, but I digress....if we had a downtown BIA with any clue of what they're doing, we could move forward as the rest of the city is ruined.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

[B]But I am concerned about how people will safely move on foot from one end of the complex to the other once the mall is no longer enclosed," he says. "I was told by (Smart Centres) that they were going to provide walkways and so on but nevertheless, if there's a young mother pushing a baby carriage or a person who has a walker or a scooter, it's going to be a bit of a challenge especially in the snow or rain," he says.

Just drive between the goddamned stores, already.

[LikeHamilton]

How do they go from their cars to the mall in the snow?

[adam]

Hey I bet it'll be like meadowlands where if you try to get around without a car, you are in serious danger of losing your life!

[waughste3]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

No approval yet for Mountain Plaza redevelopment
Public open house set for Thursday March 6

By Mark Newman, Mountain News

Mr. Lee said the committee, comprised of staff and officials from a number of city departments, wants to see the loading area at the rear of what is to be a new Wal-Mart moved elsewhere so the truck noise, particularly from refrigeration trucks, will not disturb residents on the south side of the site, including Allenby and Howard avenues.

SmartCentres is looking to knock down all but one of the buildings on the 7.6 hectare (18.8 acre) site at Upper James and Fennell and erect six new retail buildings, including a 130,103 square-foot Wal-Mart. Construction work could begin later this year starting with road improvements along Fennell and Upper James in the spring or summer. Work on some of new buildings slated to go up along Upper James could begin in the late summer or fall.

Let me try to make sense of this. Does this mean that Walmart will be getting a larger store than what it has now? Also, I've only seen thumbnail images of the new Shoppers Drug Mart, Walmart, and a rough site plan in the Mountain News. Has anybody seen anything else like an updated (larger size) site plan or other renderings I have not seen or don't know about? I am really interested to see what it will look like, but there is nothing on SmartCentres website pertaining to Mountain Plaza Mall or its redevelopment plans.

[adam]

It will probably look like a carbon copy of the thousands of other cookie-cutter shopper's drug marts and walmarts all across Canada.

[SteelTown]

Why would they redevelop Mountain Plaza now? Couldn't they wait until after Christmas? Half the parking lot is gone for construction.

[MsMe]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Why would they redevelop Mountain Plaza now? Couldn't they wait until after Christmas? Half the parking lot is gone for construction.

Like they didn't have enough parking for a busy season already. What a stupid time to dig things up.

[SteelTown]

Mall's makeover set to begin

January 28, 2009
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Business/article/503171

Mountain Plaza Mall's front parking lot may be a mess of rubble and snow now, but give it a couple of weeks.

By mid-February, Smart Centres plans to start construction of a new Shoppers Drug Mart along Upper James and a new 40,000-square-foot, two-storey building with retail on the first floor and offices on the second.

"We're trying to phase the construction of the redevelopment while keeping the mall open," said Christine Cote, land development manager for Smart Centres.

So far, the mall owners have completed some road improvements on Upper Fennell and new signal lights on Upper James, as well as new pipe work under the lot. Soon after the first two buildings get under way, the new CIBC and Beer Store will begin construction.

[coalminecanary]

worst development in the city right now.

[SteelTown]

The last week of June is when most of the stores will close so they can start the demo.

[adam]

question for everyone... how does this thread belong in urban design and heritage issues?

[matt602]

I don't know, but I don't think it would belong in the "Suburbs" forum either. As big box as the mountain is, I don't classify it as a suburb. This development is also kinda North mountain, in the more urban part (as urban as it gets up there at least).

[SteelTown]

Like it or not it's urban design. All malls go in this thread pretty much.

[adam]

[realcity]

I agree the mountain is not suburb.

Especially when the mountain has neighbourhoods like Concession, north of Fennel (and parts north of Mohawk) are an urban small block grid. Only two houses deep and another through street repeated for kilometers. Many streets with backyard alleys and no drive ways at the front of the houses. Almost all houses all have front potches, very few garages, but not unusual are separate garages built near back of the lot, driveway. Houses built close to the street. Friendly, walkable and the street grids and frequent 4-way intersections keep vehicle traffic usually below 40km without enforcement. Purely accredited to the design of the street grid.

At each major intersection there is a variety of commercial. Residents can walk to these locations. The major arterials are built 1 km apart, making residents inside those blocks less then half a kilometer walk (without crossing an arterial) to transit, schools, and some commercial. Suburbs are NO WAY near built like this.

[SteelTown]

Most of the stores at the mall closes down by the end of this month. Bulk Barn stopped getting inventory so it's already looking pretty empty. Demo starts in August. Some of the stores will relocate to the buildings built along Upper James.

The two storey buildings aren't that bad really. I believe the dental and insurance office will go on the 2nd floor. I believe even Shoppers has a second floor. There's doors facing the sidewalk so that's a good sign. Beer store is at the back near Fennell. I think this big box format will be way better than Centre Mall. I guess Smart Centre started to take lessons.

[SteelTown]

MOUNTAIN PLAZA MALL

Upper James Street at Fennell Avenue

Owner: Smart Centres Ltd.

Retail space: 250,000 sq. ft. on completion

Number of stores: 30 to 60 depending on store sizes.

Completion date: 2011

Details: The $55-million phased-in redevelopment started with a new Shoppers Drug Mart and new 40,000 sq. ft. two-storey building with retail on the first floor. Phase 1, including a new traffic signal to the site and four new buildings, is complete.

Phase 2 -- more site servicing and partial demolition of the mall -- starts mid-October.

The end result "will be mixed use, but with the majority of the mall uninclosed," said Christine Cote, Smart Centres land development manager.

The 1959 mall needed a major overhaul, since many areas were "in decrepit condition," and also to meet demands for larger and different store layouts, she said. "So instead of losing tenants, we decided to redevelop on-site."

New retail space of about 250,000 sq. ft. will change little from the previous 220,000.

[waughste3]

Has the new Walmart store opened? Last time I was there, it was almost ready.