Quote:
Originally Posted by mr1138
I'm not sure - but I do wish we could at least start having that conversation instead of just re-hashing the past.
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I think the Northwest Rail is the reason we can't have that conversation. Once it goes away - whatever that means - only then can the clock re-start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr1138
Many forumers, however, ARE guilty of engaging in unproductive Denver vs. Boulder behavior (just see the past two pages - there are childish jabs on both sides). Even some who I know to hold nuanced opinions sometimes choose, instead, to just take a cheap shot at Boulder and add nothing of value. Usually this just shuts down a conversation as opposed to actually fostering one.
The tone of this forum has definitely changed over the years as some frequent commenters have left and others have joined. It also seems that all of us can't help but be affected by the toxic commentary we see about these same topics on other corners of the internet. And sometimes that toxic social media style infiltrates its way into here (see above comment about childish jabs).
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I guess I would argue this for a couple reasons.
First, I do not think the Boulder jabs are unproductive. I think they are critically important to make sure that other parts of Colorado do not repeat the self-centered, hypocritical, and elitist choices that Boulder has been making since the 1970s. We paint Boulder as the bad guy because Boulder has been the bad guy; for decades. The only thing worse than anti-urban sprawl is a white-hat-wearing self-proclaimed environmentalist that causes all of the same anti-urban sprawl consequences (or perhaps more, when you factor in affordability concerns) while purporting to be doing the right thing.
If you say that our merciless treatment of Boulder "adds nothing of value," then that just tells me how young you are. Denver's problems could be much worse than they are. The boogeyman of Boulder has probably done as much to keep us from being even more San Francisco as possibly anything else.
Second, I would argue the tone of the forum has changed over the years also in part because the environment in which we are having these conversations has changed. In 2003, Colorado was a moderate "all of the above" sort of place, where people on the forum would still say things like, "I am not anti-car, I am pro-transit." I was more willing to have patience with mediocre transit solutions - a few billion for a few hundred riders - when we weren't living in a state that had fully embraced some rabid far-left transportation policies. I think it is fair to have higher standards if we are actually buying into the notion of ending driving through strangling roadways; that is a fundamental difference between the world that voted for the Northwest rail and the world we live in today.
If CDOT is allowed to change its mind about cars, I am allowed to change my mind about trains. And instead argue for $2 billion in BRT for actual transit riders, over a useless commuter train for 800 white collar people who are probably all working from home now anyways.