How about an old fashioned construction update thread?

[plinko]

It's not just negative for the sake of being negative. There appear to be some major circulation flaws in this plan in the same way that Collier Center doesn't work.

If places in New York and Chicago don't need to take people above the street, there's certainly no need in Phoenix. The city has enough problems getting ground floor retail to work...let alone trying to lead people off the street. The loading docks could have been done on 1st Avenue in a way that wasn't terribly expensive and also wasn't terribly intrusive (using creative landscaping and hardscaping).

I stand by my point about the bridge. There doesn't appear to be any way to cross Central at midblock at the bottom of the overly grand beautifully landscaped stair. Why not? Instead you're going to force those who want to use the stairs to walk up to Jefferson or Washington? That's just dumb. And if the bridge is so handy and efficient for those in the hotel or office tower, why the need for the overly elaborate stair (aside from exiting)?

My guess is that MOST people are going to want to use those stairs while wandering through. I expect to see alot of j-walkers at this location. It's like when you see plans for meandering trails...it looks pretty in plan but the reality is that people want to walk in a straight line.

Unfortunately it just illustrates to me that the utopian notion of both street and internal circulation still hasn't been solved. I could be be wrong, but that's just not what I see here.

[gymratmanaz]

At street level, I plan on J-Walking. There is different surface cement that makes it look like a crosswalk. It is one-way-traffic, so easy to maneuver. If not into J-walking, the corner is maybe 20 paces away. Unless you are on a Rascal, not too far to get to a crosswalk. If on a Rascal, even easier.

If real lazy and you want to use the covered bridge, there is an escalator on one side and elevator on the other.

If real lazy, shop on QVC

[plinko]

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz

At street level, I plan on J-Walking.

Thank you for exactly illustrating my point. You won't be the only one.

[HX_Guy]

Is there even going to be any retail off the mesa between the towers? Or this this just going to be a "break area" or "smoking area" for the office workers?

Ive understood that there will be 3 levels of retail on the south end of the block...3 stories of retail thought? That seems off. I could see 3 stories of hotel space (conference areas, etc) but not retail.

[gymratmanaz]

I thought the three stories of retail were east of the hotel. The Fox Chop House being one of them. I also thought the first 3 stories of tower 1 were retail too, to match the Golds gym.

[HX_Guy]

No, there is retail just on level 1 of the office tower. Office spaces start from level 2 on.

I think where the chop house will be will actually be 2 stories and then go up to 3 stories where the hotel itself if, you can kind of see in this rendering.
Above the chop house I am thinking will be the hotel pool.

[gymratmanaz]

Is the hotel going to be as wide as shown or just the tower part itself?

[HooverDam]

What was the word on the ugly grey finish like seen in this shot?



Do we think thats how it'll end up looking? Or is it going to be covered in signs or...? Because good lord its unacceptably ugly at the moment.

[phxbyrd]

what happened to discussing the historic homes?

[Vicelord John]

Originally Posted by gymratmanaz

Is the hotel going to be as wide as shown or just the tower part itself?

My guess is just the short part, with the tall part being the "maybe."

[Vicelord John]

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog

I agree with Plinko. Looks an awful lot like Colliers.

Agreed. Not digging it. Look at the sun reflections off the building. That thing is going to be hot to walk by in the summer months. What is so great in these people's minds on second floor stuff?

I hate it!

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

What was the word on the ugly grey finish like seen in this shot?

Answering my own question: I was by the site today and I asked one of the foreman and he said yes thats the finish. I just shook my head in disbelief. How can you look yourself in the mirror as an architect or development company with that on your building with all the beautiful work on the Luhrs and Courthouses right adjacent to you. Even the modern towers across Washington have a more attractive finish than CityScapes retail block, its truly awful.

You can see the little nubs were eventually the signs for the retail establishments will be, but you'll still end up with huge amounts of just grey blah nothingness.

I wish they'd at least cover these areas:




What they ought to do is cover those gray areas with large billboards and neon signage like they have in Times Square, or at least like what they have in Westgate*.

*Note: Do not search the term "Westgate" on Google Images at work with safe search off.

[Vicelord John]

well in their defense at least it isn't hot pink.

[plinko]

^There's a little bit of architectural cake decoration that will be added to those boring two story facades. HX posted a PDF a while ago that showed it (it's in the signage package). Maybe later I'll convert the PDFs and put them up here so everybody can weigh in.

[Vicelord John]

If it is in the sign package, that might explain why the on site construction guys didn't know about it.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by plinko

^There's a little bit of architectural cake decoration that will be added to those boring two story facades. HX posted a PDF a while ago that showed it (it's in the signage package). Maybe later I'll convert the PDFs and put them up here so everybody can weigh in.

I put up some of the PDFs as JPGs in the Cityscape thread. I think we should continue this conversation there.

[gymratmanaz]

and the nubs you see are for awnings. They will help some....see you in the other thread.

[phxbyrd]

I was hoping this could be a safe place to offer logical fair criticism of Cityscape without all the attacks you get hit with over on that thread. You say something bad and it's "just block him" or "what's his problem". Transsexual people need a safe place to go without being harassed and so do Cityscape doubters.

[gymratmanaz]

LOL. Made me chuckle in the morning.

Is it also a place for Cityscape doubter doubters?