Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[esquire]

^ Oh for sure, I'm not saying THF couldn't be improved on, just that it's roughly illustrative of the size, scale, configuration, etc.

That Ottawa design is nice, it looks like a bit like a scaled down version of NMS.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

On interesting prospect would be to have a joint atlantic CFL team (i.e. shared between Moncton and Halifax). That would boost the fan base but would however require the construction of 2 new stadiums and reduce the revenue collected at both of them, so it's most likely not economically feasible.

They're having a hard enough time getting one stadium built out there, let alone two.

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Oh for sure, I'm not saying THF couldn't be improved on, just that it's roughly illustrative of the size, scale, configuration, etc.

That Ottawa design is nice, it looks like a bit like a scaled down version of NMS.

Gotcha. Yea the Ottawa stadium is smaller too, only seating 20,000, which I guess goes with the lower price tag, but it should be a good size for Halifax.

[kirjtc2]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Unless Moncton somehow steals the first Atlantic Canadian franchise, I think we're at least 50 years away from Moncton becoming the second city in the region with a team.

I didn't say it was feasible. Yet.

[Oilkountry]

Built for a different time...Are we really as a country embarrassed by this?

[esquire]

^ I've come to terms with THF for the most part, but it still strikes me more as a stadium that a place with no history with the game would build for an expansion team rather than something you'd expect to see in a city that has hosted a team for 100+ years with a rich culture of fan support.

[Oilkountry]

See i don't even find it that bad. I think IGF and BC place and set an impossible bar for Hamilton. I think it lacks character, The Stadium itself isn't bad but it looks generic as hell and a few ticats flags won't fix that

Something I love about TD place is how much character the stadium and it's surroundings offer. The stadium is what it is but he experience of going to a redblacks game is unmatched in the CFL today

[esquire]

^ TD Place has its shortcomings... the south side looks too small... so small that I wonder why they bothered with an upper deck. Even 5 more rows would have made it look a little more impressive. And the east end is such a gaping void... I wish they'd fill it in a bit with some seating.

But even those aren't major concerns... TD Place at least has a certain polish and style that THF doesn't really have any of.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

On interesting prospect would be to have a joint atlantic CFL team (i.e. shared between Moncton and Halifax). That would boost the fan base but would however require the construction of 2 new stadiums and reduce the revenue collected at both of them, so it's most likely not economically feasible.

Please god no.

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Built for a different time...Are we really as a country embarrassed by this?

THF is similar to MAPFRE in Columbus - a couple of grandstands with little else. At least THF is in an urban area...

[FFX-ME]

Let's compare the new CFL stadiums

BC place:


Mosaic Stadium


IGF Field


TD place stadium


BMO Field


Tim Horton's Field


I hate it.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

THF is similar to MAPFRE in Columbus - a couple of grandstands with little else. At least THF is in an urban area...

That is certainly one of THF's redeeming qualities.

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by esquire

That is certainly one of THF's redeeming qualities.

Lol, setting the bar low.

Other redeeming qualities:
-It has seats, many NCAA stadiums do not
-It has a team, some nice stadiums do not (*couch* Olympic Stadium *cough*)
-It has clean water, some third world stadiums do not
...

I hate it, sorry.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Let's compare the new CFL stadiums

BC place:


Mosaic Stadium


IGF Field


TD place stadium


BMO Field


Tim Horton's Field

I hate it.

Haha, you obviously chose the worst pic of THF. The one above is a more inspiring pic.

I don't mind THF at all. They saved a whole bunch of cash by not installing a fancy roof

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Haha, you obviously chose the worst pic of THF. The one above is a more inspiring pic.

I don't mind THF at all. They saved a whole bunch of cash by not installing a fancy roof

Guilty, I was debating myself between putting that picture or just sarcastically putting a picture of shit.

They could have easily made it better by adding seating in the endzones to give it a curve and the sense that it is one building rather than 2 disconnected grandstands. I'll be honest, I dislike TD place for that reason too since only one grandstand was rebuilt. It would be great if the civic centre was imploded (and replaced?) so that the stadium could be symmetric.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by elly63

Hey out there, what's your model for a new Halifax stadium?

Realistically speaking the cost should be less than 150 million, seat no more than 24,000 (seats no benches) and be built to withstand a colder climate. So that means no southern climate examples that aren't winterized. And please Osmo none of your usual ridiculous trolling about cheap Canada construction posts. It's not true and lame when you constantly post it.

Maybe we should be looking at northern climate MLS examples. They're small, and relatively inexpensive.

I'll start the ball rolling how's aboot Toyota Park Chicago

Having said that, CFL teams require more seats between the goal lines and obviously less in the less desirable end zones which should be the gathering areas for the party zones. The University of Akron Stadium had a lot of backers previously.

These two probably aren't the best of ideas but they came to mind quickly and I want to see if any good examples come out of this.

I'm sure there will be some Eastern European examples but they might not be so easy to compare as we don't know many variables such as the costs of materials and labour.

Hailfax would dave money with having a single tier stadium that wraps around. Since the CFL does not value endzone seats though the tiers of seats will bump and boost the price.

The next big thing is that Halifax will likely need some sort of roof, covering structure. There are lots of precipitation in Halifax in comparisons to other CFL markets and would be just ahead of Vancouver for most rainy days.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by osmo

Hailfax would dave money with having a single tier stadium that wraps around. Since the CFL does not value endzone seats though the tiers of seats will bump and boost the price.

The next big thing is that Halifax will likely need some sort of roof, covering structure. There are lots of precipitation in Halifax in comparisons to other CFL markets and would be just ahead of Vancouver for most rainy days.

That would work except if you want to be able to cash in a little on hosting a Grey Cup. Having 1 end at least semi-open seems to be the way to go.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Built for a different time...Are we really as a country embarrassed by this?

THF is what it is. You get what you pay for.

Originally Posted by Nathan

That would work except if you want to be able to cash in a little on hosting a Grey Cup. Having 1 end at least semi-open seems to be the way to go.

CFL you would think would embrace the horseshoe configuration for this reason you stated.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Oh God no! Tim Horton's Field is an embarrassment, a stadium built for a different time, and something that simply should never have existed. Halifax deserves better.

They could try to build something like Ottawa's proposed MLS stadium that was stated at costing 100M$, equating to 114M$ today with inflation.

Yeah - you won't be able to build that for $114M

[someone123]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Please god no.

The shared team idea is weird because the stadium itself is the main thing holding back the CFL in the Maritimes. It's been hard to get 1 stadium built and that plan requires 2.

The long-term demographics to be honest are not very favourable to Moncton either because it has a relatively small population. The outlying areas that would be more important for a team there than a Halifax team are stagnant or declining. In 1950 these markets were dominated by rural areas; in 2000 this was marginal and in 2050 the rural areas will not be very important at all unless something dramatic changes. Over the past 3 years, Halifax added 15,000 people, Moncton added 5,000 people, and Saint John was -300. Many rural counties lost population. This pattern has persisted for decades. In the future I think economic development in the Maritimes is increasingly going to be concentrated in areas near the Halifax-Moncton corridor, with the two (small) exceptions being Fredericton and Charlottetown because they are capitals. Saint John and Sydney have been the unfortunate losers in this arrangement.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by someone123

The shared team idea is weird because the stadium itself is the main thing holding back the CFL in the Maritimes. It's been hard to get 1 stadium built and that plan requires 2.

The stadium is what's holding Halifax back - Moncton is held back due to size, as its stadium would simply have to be renovated and expanded to be suitable if the metro were large enough.

Originally Posted by someone123

The long-term demographics to be honest are not very favourable to Moncton either because it has a relatively small population. The outlying areas that would be more important for a team there than a Halifax team are stagnant or declining.

Firstly, nowhere in Atlantic Canada can compete with Metro Halifax's growth, let's just get that out of the way.

Secondly, Halifax can host a franchise without having to rely on the Wolfvilles or Bridgewaters, but the notion that Moncton could host a team today is wishful thinking at best anyway. Why people compare the two is beyond me. If Moncton doubled in size overnight it would theoretically double periphery places like Sackville and Shediac, let alone the impact this would have on nearby PEI.

Originally Posted by someone123

Over the past 3 years, Halifax added 15,000 people, Moncton added 5,000 people, and Saint John was -300.

SJ plays little to no role in this whatsoever outside of some potential periphery STHs. I know people like to hype up the idea of fans travelling long distances but I really don't see the upside in relying on this for attendance at games or merchandising.

Originally Posted by someone123

In the future I think economic development in the Maritimes is increasingly going to be concentrated in areas near the Halifax-Moncton corridor, with the two (small) exceptions being Fredericton and Charlottetown because they are capitals.

I've long said that the Southern NB (Fredericton-SJ-Moncton triangle) combined with PEI and the corridor towards Halifax are the only growth areas in the region (and the numbers from 2016 back that up). NB's stagnant population at times doesn't show the deeper numbers at work, which are the three cities still growing (SJ likes to do the opposite, at times) despite the rural populations emptying out. Southeastern NB (Moncton) accounted for 23% of NB's population in 1991, and today is closer to 30%. Northern, rural NB drags down most of NB's population and demographic numbers.

What we're seeing in NB and NS is a centralization of the population as older residents move into the cities and older rural residents move on. Centralizing populations in urban centres makes life easier for governments, businesses, etc. as it's easier to tap into central markets without having to rely on people commuting or driving long distances, and makes things like sports teams easier sells.

It'll take time, but eventually Moncton will be over a third of NB's representative population, which still won't be enough for a CFL franchise anyway.