Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[esquire]

I don't think I had really ever heard the use of the term "dart" to mean cigarette until "Dart Guy" came along.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, I know that stuff existed, but it was fringe not mainstream.

Mainstream rock acts of the 60s and 70s were no angels, from openly destroying hotel rooms and other property to regularly having, and at times capturing, underage groupies. Take your pick and they probably did it, far more than any of today's modern hip hop acts.

As has been mentioned, Gen Z is incredibly non-violent, and it seems like even if modern hip hop has these sorts of outward issues (less so than they would have in the early 90s) it's not really being reflected in public life. IMO it's less to do with who died when and more to do with musicians, or any artist, being role models or respectable people whatsoever.

[wg_flamip]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Anyone else notice y'all gaining a bit of traction in Canadian English? I have been wondering about this for a while and recently got my 3rd example of repeat use. Three people from very different horizons too.

"Y'all" is still pretty fringe in Canada: While it may be slightly more popular than a decade or two ago, it's still extremely rare to encounter IRL (some people who would never say it in person do use it on social media in certain situations). That said, there has been a deliberate effort by a small group to use "y'all" as a replacement for the increasingly ubiquitous "you guys" in order to avoid unnecessarily gendered language (cf., "guys" vs. "folks").

"You guys" itself is fairly new to the scene, displacing stigmatized alternatives (e.g., youse, yuz) among the upwardly mobile in the mid- to late-20th Century.

"You all" is long established in Canadian English, so the spread of the contracted form isn't shocking, in any case. "Y'all" seems to be entering the wider North American vernacular via AAVE rather than from the American South directly, which would align with a larger trend toward the mainstreaming of certain elements of African diasporic Englishes in North America and the UK. That phenomenon is much more complex than mere Americanisms seeping into Canada.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wg_flamip

"Y'all" is still pretty fringe in Canada: While it may be slightly more popular than a decade or two ago, it's still extremely rare to encounter IRL (some people who would never say it in person do use it on social media in certain situations). That said, there has been a deliberate effort by a small group to use "y'all" as a replacement for the increasingly ubiquitous "you guys" in order to avoid unnecessarily gendered language (cf., "guys" vs. "folks").

"You guys" itself is fairly new to the scene, displacing stigmatized alternatives (e.g., youse, yuz) among the upwardly mobile in the mid- to late-20th Century.

"You all" is long established in Canadian English, so the spread of the contracted form isn't shocking, in any case. "Y'all" seems to be entering the wider North American vernacular via AAVE rather than from the American South directly, which would align with a larger trend toward the mainstreaming of certain elements of African diasporic Englishes in North America and the UK. That phenomenon is much more complex than mere Americanisms seeping into Canada.

I believe that "y'all" and "you all" actually have their origins in the British Isles, and that's how it ended up in the Southern US.

It's also true that African-Americans even in the northern cities have been saying "y'all" for quite some time. Probably for a lot longer than white people in these same cities.

Another example of African-American English usage that has spread outside the community is "Imma" for "I am going to". Haven't been to the US in a few years due to the pandemic but certainly on TV (both news and fictional programming) and in movies, many people who aren't black use "Imma" now. It doesn't seem to have spread much to Canada though (not yet).

[biguc]

Great thing about English: we can just say "you" and skip all the noise.

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't recall that many artists popular with Boomers or GenXers being shot to death or being accused of shooting someone to death.

Biggie and 2pac would be at least your age if they hadn't been, you know, shot to death.

I'm honestly more alarmed by how many rappers die early of natural causes than how many die violently. Guru, Craig Mack, Camu Tao, Nate Dog, Phife Dawg... the list goes on. You can count on some people to not get caught up in a life of crime or drugs. But what can you do when they up and keel over at 45 for no good reason?




Anyway, has anyone ever identified any typographical differences in this thread. Like, does Quebec hate sans serifs? Does interior BC love comic sans? That's the kind of shit that could tear confederation asunder.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by biguc

Biggie and 2pac would be at least your age if they hadn't been, you know, shot to death.

I'm honestly more alarmed by how many rappers die early of natural causes than how many die violently. Guru, Craig Mack, Camu Tao, Nate Dog, Phife Dawg... the list goes on. You can count on some people to not get caught up in a life of crime or drugs. But what can you do when they up and keel over at 45 for no good reason?

Thinking about how Dilla died at 32. DOOM didn't even make it to 50.

Originally Posted by biguc

Anyway, has anyone ever identified any typographical differences in this thread. Like, does Quebec hate sans serifs? Does interior BC love comic sans? That's the kind of shit that could tear confederation asunder.

BC has its own typeface, BC Sans, which to me just sounds like someone speaking Japanese and referring to BC as BC-san.

Federal govt's official typeface is Helvetica. TIL.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by niwell

Anyway, has anyone ever identified any typographical differences in this thread. Like, does Quebec hate sans serifs? Does interior BC love comic sans? That's the kind of shit that could tear confederation asunder.

Got one for you. Why does Quebec put a dot on top of capital Is?

I saw a picture of a memorial to the victims of the Montreal Massacre posted on social media this week to commemorate the 32nd anniversary, and the victims' names were written in caps with dots above each I. I have also seen that done on highway signs in Quebec. Why is this?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

Got one for you. Why does Quebec put a dot on top of capital Is?

I saw a picture of a memorial to the victims of the Montreal Massacre posted on social media this week to commemorate the 32nd anniversary, and the victims' names were written in caps with dots above each I. I have also seen that done on highway signs in Quebec. Why is this?

We do that?

[JHikka]

I don't think Quebec does that...


Montreal Gazette

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I detest y'all..........

To me it is associated with illiterate backwoods southern Trumpians and should in no way ever infiltrate Canadian speech. What exactly are you trying to prove by saying "y'all". This is nothing to celebrate.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't think I had really ever heard the use of the term "dart" to mean cigarette until "Dart Guy" came along.

I remember it being used back in the 1990s in my high school days. But it wasn't very common here. At my high school, people referred to cigarettes as "butts." You'd here, "Hey let's go outside for a butt."

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by esquire

Got one for you. Why does Quebec put a dot on top of capital Is?

I saw a picture of a memorial to the victims of the Montreal Massacre posted on social media this week to commemorate the 32nd anniversary, and the victims' names were written in caps with dots above each I. I have also seen that done on highway signs in Quebec. Why is this?

I have never noticed that. Unless you are referring to certain names and words in French that have two dots above (tréma).

maïs (corn) MAÏS

Moïse (a name) MOÏSE

And in Québec over the last number of years, you would often hear and read the word laïcité which means secularism.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I have never noticed that. Unless you are referring to certain names and words in French that have two dots above (tréma).

maïs (corn) MAÏS

Moïse (a name) MOÏSE

And in Québec over the last number of years, you would often hear and read the word laïcité which means secularism.

Correct. And in some words the I has a circonflexe.

As in MAÎTRE.

But a dot? Sounds Swedish or something.

Maybe our friend Esquire can give us an example.

Though one difference between France and us is that we put accents on capital letters. They generally don't. Though they've been starting to do it more it seems. We're rubbing off on them I guess.

[Hali87]

Y'all is interesting. I remember one of my teachers pointing out that English lacks a pronoun for the plural second person (vous), and y'all fills that role. The fact that it's considered grammatically incorrect is kind of a weird dogma. It's a word I find myself using occasionally (in place of "you all", which feels forced when I'm speaking out loud). I find my American friends are way more likely to use it in text than Canadian ones. "Ima" is used pretty universally by people I know under 40.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Y'all is interesting. I remember one of my teachers pointing out that English lacks a pronoun for the plural second person (vous), and y'all fills that role. The fact that it's considered grammatically incorrect is kind of a weird dogma. It's a word I find myself using occasionally (in place of "you all", which feels forced when I'm speaking out loud). I find my American friends are way more likely to use it in text than Canadian ones. "Ima" is used pretty universally by people I know under 40.

What about "youse" (youz) y'all, it's a similar meaning (also "ye" is an alternative), I've heard "youse" used from NL to BC for decades.

[SignalHillHiker]

“Ye” is the normal, plural “you” here. Very few people write it, but very few people don’t say it - even if they’re not conscious about it. I’ve also heard “youz”, “yeez”. In Grand Bank (my fave English-heavy accent on the island, as opposed to Irish) they’ll even say things like… if we all showed up to someone’s house party, whoever answered the door might shout to those inside, “Sig and theys are here.”

[Architype]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

“Ye” is the normal, plural “you” here. Very few people write it, but very few people don’t say it - even if they’re not conscious about it. I’ve also heard “youz”, “yeez”. In Grand Bank (my fave English-heavy accent on the island, as opposed to Irish) they’ll even say things like… if we all showed up to someone’s house party, whoever answered the door might shout to those inside, “Sig and theys are here.”

When I was growing up, "youse" and "theys/deys" were common. As in "Sig & 'deys/dem is 'ere". "Ye" was spoken by old timers who chewed tobacco.

[SignalHillHiker]

Is your part of the island English or Irish in origin? I’d guess English based on that but I don’t know.

These days “theys” isn’t common, at least not here. Grand Bank is the only place I’ve ever encountered it haha. It’s cute, though. I’m not sure how it reads to everyone but my instinctual reaction is the same as Aussie nicknames for everything. I just find it happy/friendly.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Is your part of the island English or Irish in origin? I’d guess English based on that but I don’t know.

These days “theys” isn’t common, at least not here. Grand Bank is the only place I’ve ever encountered it haha. It’s cute, though. I’m not sure how it reads to everyone but my instinctual reaction is the same as Aussie nicknames for everything. I just find it happy/friendly.

The "English Coast" which stretches from the Bonavista Peninsula to Twillingate I guess. There were no remaining Catholic churches between Gambo and Fogo Isl. afaik. If you can ever find a map of Catholic churches in NL, that would give you the Irish settlement pattern.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Correct. And in some words the I has a circonflexe.

As in MAÎTRE.

But a dot? Sounds Swedish or something.

Maybe our friend Esquire can give us an example.

Here's what I'm talking about:



I also specifically remember seeing "SURVEILLANCE AERIENNE" signs in the standard green highway sign format on the 40 between Montreal and Quebec with dots above the I. It's kind of thing you notice on a long highway drive. But I don't remember exactly where they were so I can't put up a picture of them.

I certainly wouldn't say it's frequent, but you see it enough in Quebec that you notice it's a thing. As compared to English Canada where dots above uppercase Is generally don't exist.