HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #22241  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 4:09 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by lu9 View Post
This is amazing. ty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Right, nice work!
Thanks. Definitely harder to filter out the information than my new construction map. I updated this map and it now goes back to 12/16/2013. That covers a few things like the interior buildout of a new Mariano's at 2112 N Ashland (Ashland and Elston).

I'm still surprised that nobody is "excited" about the huge $14 million renovation of the old nursing home in Uptown to 160 new apartments.

Last edited by marothisu; Jan 30, 2014 at 5:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22242  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 4:10 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,375
B37 - what could have been

Son Of A Bitch.
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22243  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 5:55 PM
SamInTheLoop SamInTheLoop is offline
you know where I'll be
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilsenarch View Post
right on LVDW... as the sorry chap who is responsible for leading the design of the masterplanning of the current as-built, including the clusterf**k that is occurring below grade with the CTA station, loading docks, parking garage, pedway, secure CBS parking, etc., I feel a need to defend myself and show just a couple of initial planning sketches that convinced Daley and planning that Mills really could do a successful urban mall (haha). The images depict a concept I tried to hang on to despite beating after beating to narrow it down and eventually obliterate it altogether... that being a large arcade ala the galleria in Milan so that standing in Daley Plaza you could easily see through Block 37 to the facade of Field's and vice a versa... this would have undoubtedly driven foot traffic from State to Daley on a regular basis, through what we originally described as an indoor sister civic plaza to Daley...

orange was condo, red was hotel, yellow was an idea I had to turn the comed into an art piece, and green and blue are retail...

the plan sketch was an initial attempt at saving the concept after CBS arrived with a fully designed building they wanted to plop down and have us just work around (designed to kind of match Booth's art institute dorm at Randolph & State)... one of thousands of sketches trying to save the concept after every new surprise (harrod's, super station, etc. etc.) BTW, that plan does not reflect the perspective sketches.... the initial plans included a large rectangular, completely sky-lit plaza that the arcade bisected... a search of my posts in the 108 N State thread will result in a more definitive narrative...




Is your concept better than what was built as an urban contribution to the urban heart of Chicago? Yes of course. Is the reason that we got what we got, instead of something more urban and focused on really activating the street level urbanistically, the reason for the commerical failure to-date? Actually no, it is not. It's tempting for us lovers of good and proper strong and contextual urban design to assign this causality, yet it is misplaced. Same is true for LVDW in terms of Roosevelt Collection. Design issues and market conditions notwithstanding, both projects could easily have been completely leased up and opened with a successful mix of retailers/restaurants/entertainment type tenants. Who knows what is going on with RC other than McCaffery's seemingly congenital and almost preternatural incompetence there. And, fear not, if CIM Group does not make massive announced and visible progress at Block 37 in 2014 - to the tune of a slew of major tenant openings (importantly including the critical larger 4th and 3rd floor tenants) in time for the '14 holiday season, as well as striking deals and major progress on planning for the high-rise component toward '15 construction commencement on that, it will be open season on them as well for they will have earned as much, if not more right to the severe but easily justified criticism they shall receive as McCaffery now 'enjoys'....

By the way, pilsenarch, we're you working on this project while P+W had still had design duties (or was it actually prior to then?)?....Assuming it wasn't by the time it got to Gensler, as my understanding is the shark had long since been jumped on the design by that point (for example, P+W's publicly released design I think was far superior than anything public from Gensler....but neither to my knowledge had much difference as far as the base massing - near complete or complete block coverage over ~ 4 floors)
__________________
It's simple, really - try not to design or build trash.

Last edited by SamInTheLoop; Jan 30, 2014 at 6:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22244  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 5:58 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Thanks. Definitely harder to filter out the information than my new construction map. I updated this map and it now goes back to 12/16/2013. That covers a few things like the interior buildout of a new Mariano's at 2112 N Ashland (Ashland and Elston).

I'm still surprised that nobody is "excited" about the huge $14 million renovation of the old nursing home in Uptown to 160 new apartments.
I think it's great, just not much to add.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22245  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 6:32 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilsenarch View Post
right on LVDW... as the sorry chap who is responsible for leading the design of the masterplanning of the current as-built, including the clusterf**k that is occurring below grade with the CTA station, loading docks, parking garage, pedway, secure CBS parking, etc., I feel a need to defend myself and show just a couple of initial planning sketches that convinced Daley and planning that Mills really could do a successful urban mall (haha). The images depict a concept I tried to hang on to despite beating after beating to narrow it down and eventually obliterate it altogether... that being a large arcade ala the galleria in Milan so that standing in Daley Plaza you could easily see through Block 37 to the facade of Field's and vice a versa... this would have undoubtedly driven foot traffic from State to Daley on a regular basis, through what we originally described as an indoor sister civic plaza to Daley...

orange was condo, red was hotel, yellow was an idea I had to turn the comed into an art piece, and green and blue are retail...

the plan sketch was an initial attempt at saving the concept after CBS arrived with a fully designed building they wanted to plop down and have us just work around (designed to kind of match Booth's art institute dorm at Randolph & State)... one of thousands of sketches trying to save the concept after every new surprise (harrod's, super station, etc. etc.) BTW, that plan does not reflect the perspective sketches.... the initial plans included a large rectangular, completely sky-lit plaza that the arcade bisected... a search of my posts in the 108 N State thread will result in a more definitive narrative...



Wow, that would have been MUCH better. There are too many old guard developers out there who simply just don't get the surge of new urbanism and have no idea how to use it to their advantage. I've kind of dedicated my career to taking advantage of that and trying to create projects that successfully create new parts of the city that are actually urban, not just dense. I really with B37 would have ended up with your concept and not the garbage hole in the wall entrances they have now. Seriously, how can they expect foot traffic in that space when the main entrances from the outside are so poorly defined and almost difficult to find?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22246  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 6:36 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop View Post
Is your concept better than what was built as an urban contribution to the urban heart of Chicago? Yes of course. Is the reason that we got what we got, instead of something more urban and focused on really activating the street level urbanistically, the reason for the commerical failure to-date? Actually no, it is not. It's tempting for us lovers of good and proper strong and contextual urban design to assign this causality, yet it is misplaced. Same is true for LVDW in terms of Roosevelt Collection. Design issues and market conditions notwithstanding, both projects could easily have been completely leased up and opened with a successful mix of retailers/restaurants/entertainment type tenants. Who knows what is going on with RC other than McCaffery's seemingly congenital and almost preternatural incompetence there. And, fear not, if CIM Group does not make massive announced and visible progress at Block 37 in 2014 - to the tune of a slew of major tenant openings (importantly including the critical larger 4th and 3rd floor tenants) in time for the '14 holiday season, as well as striking deals and major progress on planning for the high-rise component toward '15 construction commencement on that, it will be open season on them as well for they will have earned as much, if not more right to the severe but easily justified criticism they shall receive as McCaffery now 'enjoys'....
You disagree with what I was saying, yet didn't really offer reasoning. Why do you think RC and B37 could have been successfully leased? Both projects have seen multiple developers attempt to lease them and both projects have seen multiple developers fail. As someone who has dealt with a lot of tenants I can't imagine what tenant in their right mind is like "yeah, sign me up for a retail space that is tucked 1000' back in a motor court wayyyy off the street, I will get ton's of customers there!". Same goes for being tucked 4-5 floors up off the street way inside a labyrinthine mall with piddly little entrances that are barely even noticeable from the street.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22247  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 7:20 PM
pilsenarch pilsenarch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop View Post
By the way, pilsenarch, we're you working on this project while P+W had still had design duties (or was it actually prior to then?)?....Assuming it wasn't by the time it got to Gensler, as my understanding is the shark had long since been jumped on the design by that point (for example, P+W's publicly released design I think was far superior than anything public from Gensler....but neither to my knowledge had much difference as far as the base massing - near complete or complete block coverage over ~ 4 floors)
Prior to P&W and Gensler... BTW, both of them were just decorating the plan that I/we handed off to them... I was with a relatively small firm that I warned the stake holders that there was no way in hell that a publicly traded firm like Mills was going to ultimately let finish the project... and alas, that is what happened

Also, I too have to stress (along with LVDW) that if my initial concept was actually executed, It would make a huge difference to the traffic inside that mall which is really the first step in retail success...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22248  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 7:49 PM
pilsenarch pilsenarch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
You disagree with what I was saying, yet didn't really offer reasoning. Why do you think RC and B37 could have been successfully leased? Both projects have seen multiple developers attempt to lease them and both projects have seen multiple developers fail. As someone who has dealt with a lot of tenants I can't imagine what tenant in their right mind is like "yeah, sign me up for a retail space that is tucked 1000' back in a motor court wayyyy off the street, I will get ton's of customers there!". Same goes for being tucked 4-5 floors up off the street way inside a labyrinthine mall with piddly little entrances that are barely even noticeable from the street.
so true... I'm not sure what the Mills folks were thinking when they looked at my designs... maybe a necessary evil eye candy to acquire the job and keep me happy in the short term, but I think what they were really thinking is that we have a long way to go before we wring out every single leasable square foot from this block... thus, no more Milan galleria, but hallways to some kind of glorified lightwell... they were thinking that WE can lease anything and we certainly don't need this architect telling us we need his help...

I have hundreds of more developed sketches including interiors that reached all the way down to the CTA platforms... some pretty cool stuff... I can't even look at that block now without it giving me physical pain...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22249  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 8:19 PM
Mr Downtown's Avatar
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
Urbane observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,387
I was told that the concept of an atrium open all the way to track level was doomed by fire codes. True?

I'm sure you did some nice work, but I just think the concept of indoor retail downtown was doomed from the start. I can't think of any successful downtown indoor malls or gallerias in the US, and even when you look around the world the successes are rather anemic. Even most of the historic arcades of Western Europe limp along with tenants whose customers seek them out: a bespoke jeweler, a custom tailor, pen hospitals and electrolysis salons. The Galleria Vittorio Emanuele is an unmatched situation at the cross axes of the city, and it's still a fashion center with Prada, Vuitton, and a couple of others—but it's only one level and its most prominent tenant is a McDonald's.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22250  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 8:30 PM
Chi-Sky21 Chi-Sky21 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,286
Google should just buy block 37 and turn it into their fancy new Chicago HQ. I think it would work as a single tenant office complex. Plus it is already done unlike their slow moving cold storage building! And then have them pay to finish the super station of course!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22251  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 8:33 PM
woodrow woodrow is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 939
Pilsenarch - I remember reading Kamin and how excited he was about the idea of an atrium space that went all the way down to the CTA platforms. I also remember his concerns that the developer would squeeze the space to nothing. sadly, his concerns were well-founded.
I was very excited about the space and thought Kamin was being overly nervous.
ps - you are very talented.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22252  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 8:45 PM
pilsenarch pilsenarch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 888
thanks woodrow (blushing)

Mr. D. you are right, but I of course never got that far... I was planning on either negotiating something with the code officials, or having a fire-rated glass laylight of some sort... or enclosing just the tracks and walls with glass enclosures simliar to many airport terminal shuttles (like Denver) (BTW, the connections to the platforms were still part of the plan when it first got handed over to P&W, thus Kamin having a chance to see it)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22253  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 11:06 PM
J_M_Tungsten's Avatar
J_M_Tungsten J_M_Tungsten is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,379
Today
The Madison at Racine
Website: http://www.madisonracine.com






Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22254  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2014, 12:23 AM
Buckman821's Avatar
Buckman821 Buckman821 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 485
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
I'm still surprised that nobody is "excited" about the huge $14 million renovation of the old nursing home in Uptown to 160 new apartments.
Hasn't this project already been underway for several years?

http://www.uptownupdate.com/2011/06/...set-place.html

http://www.uptownupdate.com/2012/08/...set-place.html

http://www.uptownupdate.com/2013/01/...o-extreme.html

In typical Uptown fashion, this was a project that started with a lot of fanfare, but has slowly turned into a big pile of nothing that makes you wonder if it was ever legit in the first place. A lot of these Cedar St. projects (similar types of buildings in Uptown) have also come to a grinding halt. I feel foolish, because I really thought Alex Samolyovich (of Cedar Street) was the real deal.

Believe me, I hope they all come around, but at this point the only one I'm genuinely optimistic about is the BJB acquisition of the Lawrence House, their track record is just too good.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22255  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2014, 1:01 AM
Kenmore Kenmore is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Uptown
Posts: 641
The Somerset was purchased by a group of exurban slumlords from Indiana who were way out of their league in an urban environment (bush league asbestos issues). They probably saw northside + cheap multi unit and thought they'd make a quick buck without realizing how soft/competitive the rental market actually is in Uptown. Work has been at a standstill for months and I suspect they have or are about to cut and run.

The FLATS properties aren't much better but there is at least some activity.

Horizon and BJB are the only legit developers making headway in Uptown.

The Maryville development probably doesn't stand a chance (weak demand) without major TIF assistance.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22256  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2014, 3:25 AM
wierdaaron's Avatar
wierdaaron wierdaaron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,011
If anybody has cable tv they should check out next week's episode of Strip the City on the Science channel. It's a show about the hidden infrastructures of cities, and the next episode is about Chicago. The preview I saw looked pretty interesting.

It's on Wednesday night at 10.

http://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-sho...v-schedule.htm
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22257  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2014, 4:23 AM
Chi-Sky21 Chi-Sky21 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,286
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdaaron View Post
If anybody has cable tv they should check out next week's episode of Strip the City on the Science channel. It's a show about the hidden infrastructures of cities, and the next episode is about Chicago. The preview I saw looked pretty interesting.

It's on Wednesday night at 10.

http://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-sho...v-schedule.htm
Great series, London and Rome episodes are pretty interesting also, got New York and Dubai on the DVR waiting.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22258  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2014, 4:40 AM
oshkeoto oshkeoto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 990
In the spirit of marothisu's awesome map, I thought I would share this one I made:



Everything in red is residential areas where it is only legal to build single family houses. I spend a fair amount of time thinking and talking about how underzoning is awful, and this shocked even me.

There's a bit more here: http://danielhertz.wordpress.com/201...s-just-insane/

EDIT: I should say that this info comes from the zoning shapefile from the city's data portal; I've highlighted RS-1, RS-2, and RS-3 zones.
__________________
Yo soy un hombre sincero
De donde crecen los edificios.

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22259  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2014, 5:02 AM
marothisu marothisu is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by oshkeoto View Post
In the spirit of marothisu's awesome map, I thought I would share this one I made:



Everything in red is residential areas where it is only legal to build single family houses. I spend a fair amount of time thinking and talking about how underzoning is awful, and this shocked even me.

There's a bit more here: http://danielhertz.wordpress.com/201...s-just-insane/

EDIT: I should say that this info comes from the zoning shapefile from the city's data portal; I've highlighted RS-1, RS-2, and RS-3 zones.
This seems weird. There's tons of SFHs in the black areas right now..hm.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22260  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2014, 5:18 AM
denizen467 denizen467 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
I can't think of any successful downtown indoor malls or gallerias in the US
Are you using a narrow definition of "successful" or are you implying "except for a couple rare ones like Water Tower Place or Copley in Boston"?

------------

Kind of unexpected:

http://www.suntimes.com/25284192-761...rena-plan.html
Near South Side residents warming up to DePaul arena plan
BY FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter January 30, 2014

... Tina Feldstein, president of the Prairie District Neighborhood Alliance, said shifting the headquarters hotel to the block east of the arena makes “a lot more sense” because it “salvages” Prairie Avenue and creates a “walkable destination, instead of it being partially blocked off for trucks loading” for the arena.

“It gives the development a much better chance of creating a destination. You don’t want another Rosement where they come to the event center and leave. The only way you address that issue is by creating a destination,” she said.

Still, Feldstein said “major concerns” remain about traffic and parking that will likely require making some streets one-way while putting cul-de-sacs on others. ...
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:46 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.