24/7 SkyTrain service?

[mr.x]

7,000 ink petition for 24/7 SkyTrain service

Cheryl Chan, The Province
Published: Wednesday, January 09, 2008

More than 7,000 people have signed an online petition clamouring for round-the-clock SkyTrain service.

Scott Podwinski, who started the petition on the social networking site Facebook less than two weeks ago, said he's blown away by the demand.

"Almost 7,300 people are saying they want the service and would ride it," said the 26-year-old Surrey man. "There's more demand than you think."

Podwinski started the campaign after being stranded downtown after a New Year's Eve party, despite assurances from TransLink customer service that SkyTrain service will be running "later than normal."

He said he and his friends boarded the SkyTrain at Granville Station at about 2 a.m. but were kicked off at the next stop because service was shutting down.

They were told to walk to Burrard Station to catch a bus, he said, but "two hours later, still no bus. We were frozen by that time."

"It would cost very little to keep the SkyTrain running 24 hours," said Podwinski, adding that the extra rail runs would curb drinking and driving and offer night owls an alternative to pricey cab rides home.

Both the SkyTrain's Expo and Millennium lines shut down for about four hours daily, from about 1:30 to 5:30 a.m.

TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said 24/7 service would be desirable but not "feasible technically."

"We have a situation where a certain number of down-time hours is necessary," he said, adding SkyTrain already stays open later than the London Underground.

"It's not an issue of operating costs," said Hardie. "An additional few hours wouldn't make the difference, but with the need to do track maintenance . . . they need that window every early morning."

Hardie said TransLink might consider looking at short-term 24-hour service on specific nights during the 2010 Olympics should downtown stay open late.

Podwinski hopes to gather 100,000 signatures -- online and in-person -- which he plans to submit to TransLink at the end of the year.

A reaction to Podwinski's petition has already erupted on Facebook. The Petition Against the Petition to Keep the SkyTrain Open 24 Hours has 12 members as of yesterday.

chchan@png.canwest.com




i should mention that SkyTrain opens later and opens earlier than the Hong Kong MTR.

[twoNeurons]

I wonder... what about running it on one rail only. Run two 8-car trains. In the middle, one waits in the siding while the other car passes... or they pass in a station. The side would alternate each night so they could alternate track maintenance.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

i should mention that SkyTrain opens later and opens earlier than the Hong Kong MTR.

Do you mean "closes" later and opens earlier?

Anyways, I don't think running it 24/7 is financially feasible.

That said, opening later or all night on Fridays and Saturdays would probably be a good idea. Copenhagen does that - and charges twice the fare during those late hours.

[SpongeG]

they could do that here - have it run say every 30 minutes and charge the highest fare

but isn't the problem that they park the trains along the track at night? there is no yard for them to all go home to at night?

[deasine]

HAHA there is also a petition on facebook... I think it's called "Hey TransLink, keep the trains moving."

@SpongeG
I didn't know the park the trains on tracks at night. You learn a new thing everyday =) Well I guess if you have a low frequency of trains, then you can run like you have track-maintenance. So at some stations, one platform has both directions running. This can be easily done in the downtown stations, close off a tunnel for parked trains and keep the other tunnel running.

[officedweller]

Yeah, just using one track on certain segments is feasible with low frequency.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Do you mean "closes" later and opens earlier?

Anyways, I don't think running it 24/7 is financially feasible.

That said, opening later or all night on Fridays and Saturdays would probably be a good idea. Copenhagen does that - and charges twice the fare during those late hours.

yea, that's what i meant.

i don't think 24/7 is a good idea either....the hours could be extended to open earlier and close later, but it needs maintenance to prevent all those damned breakdowns!

i think the Copenhagen system works well.

[twoNeurons]

and once you introduce 24/7 service... it's really difficult to take it back.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by deasine

HAHA there is also a petition on facebook... I think it's called "Hey TransLink, keep the trains moving."

@SpongeG
I didn't know the park the trains on tracks at night. You learn a new thing everyday =) Well I guess if you have a low frequency of trains, then you can run like you have track-maintenance. So at some stations, one platform has both directions running. This can be easily done in the downtown stations, close off a tunnel for parked trains and keep the other tunnel running.

when i drove home at 2 or 3am along lougheed there are a number of the trains parked lights on inside and out

yah if they kept one track open it would be doable

i don't think there are hundreds of people so infrequent would be good (judging by the late night busses i have taken) and regular users would get used to say a 30 min frequency - shift workers and such

[mr.x]

i'd like to make the West Coast Express service improvements a higher priority....get more funding for it, negotiate with CP for better service with assistance by the feds, get it double-tracked for bidirectional service, get more trains and coaches, then run it every 10-15 minutes at peak hours and 30-60 minutes at non-peak.

[LeftCoaster]

I think running a 30 minute, one track system sounds completly feasable, even if it isnt 24 hr and just a few extra hours. And like Hardie said, its not an issue of costs, but of maintenance... so if lines were alternated in terms of what needed to be worked on I dont really see a problem.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

i'd like to make the West Coast Express service improvements a higher priority....get more funding for it, negotiate with CP for better service with assistance by the feds, get it double-tracked for bidirectional service, get more trains and coaches, then run it every 10-15 minutes at peak hours and 30-60 minutes at non-peak.

I agree with that. I should submit a news story to global and see what they how much CP is charging taxpayers...

[Jared]

I asked the chief operations manager of SkyTrain about this when I met him in October. He says its simply not possible, even just on Fridays and Saturdays or alternating trains on one rail or any manner of "compromise" measure. They would like do to it if they could, but they pretty much need every single minute they have in order to get all the maintanence done.

[deasine]

hmmm =(

Well I guess they can have a SkyTrain Bus then? =) It's better than nothing.

[Overground]

So far I'm not for it. From reading around the net of other systems it seems the major issue is mandatory maintenance, and the few hours before 5am(ish) that they have time to do it in. This seems reasonable to me as maintenance equals reliability and safety. And what about increased staff funding for the extended hours?


Here is a post from a lady on Facebook -

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that SkyTrain operates on a standard gauge continuous weld running rail, with multiple switches, pocket tracks and crossovers, power rails for power supply, and LIM rail for propulsion, as well as a variety of other systems located at track level, all of which require continual regular daily maintenance throughout the mainline. As it is determined that the time frame in which this necessary work is to be completed has the least negative impact on the traveling public during the late night hours, this is the time selected.

It is a relatively brief nightly cessation in service with a great deal of track work accomplished, offset by the frequent service provided during the day. If this were not accomplised during the nonrevenue hours, then one would be expecting headways of at least half an hour to compensate. Unlike the fixed block heavy rail counterparts, SkyTrain does not have the windows between trains to accomplish significant rail work while the system is running.

[Canadian Mind]

can't get trains to single-track it over portions? I recall that there are crossovers at nearly every station

[SpongeG]

Other New York are there any systems that operate 24 hrs?

As it is Vancouver is pretty lucky to have a system that is as late as it is

When i was in london the trains stopped before 1 am

The main problem is an alternative service - there are 12 night buses but they are limited

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Other New York are there any systems that operate 24 hrs?

How is New York able to manage? Does having human operators for the trains have something to do with it?

[Jared]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

How is New York able to manage? Does having human operators for the trains have something to do with it?

New York does it because they usually have multiple sets of rails. A SkyTrain route has a set of tracks in each direction. A New York subway route has 2 or even 3 sets of track in each direction, so they can close one set down for maintainance but still keep the system running.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

How is New York able to manage? Does having human operators for the trains have something to do with it?

i think someone said it was because some lines have a lot more tracks than just 2. Not all of the subway opens 24/7.