Quote:
Originally Posted by Jjs5056
I'm not saying that Applebees and Red Robin coming to the Warehouse District will make Central Phoenix the place to be; I guess I don't see what's wrong with bringing entertainment options that don't exist in suburban Arizona, such as an Alamo. Just because it's a chain doesn't mean it isn't providing a service to the area that is needed... and forget about drawing suburbanites, but amenities like these are desired and needed for existing residents. Why wouldn't a CityScape resident want an alehouse cinema within walking distance? Why would they care that the brand operates in other states?
The boutique/independent-or-nothing attitude of downtown is strange. Every successful downtown has a mix of both... I love the eclectic, locally-owned businesses that give downtown its unique vibe, but it's going to take businesses with deep pockets to fill in the majority of gaping holes in the urban fabric, which will likely mean chains. And, I'd take something like an Alamo over an Applebees any day.
As for CityScape, you're underestimating how successful it has been. I'll always loathe the design, but it simply isn't an AZ Center redux no matter how many times that gets repeated. The hotel and residential components were huge successes and ensure that a solid lineup will always be occupying the retail. Places like Lucky Strike and Stand Up Live do draw suburbanites, and more importantly, provide Central Phoenix residents with much needed entertainment options. Is it the "big fix" for downtown? No. No project will ever be. But, it's brought big names and a ton of foot traffic to a part of downtown that was largely ignored before after dark, and I doubt projects like the Barrister redevelopment would be happening if PSP were still there.
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In downtown Portland, there's a Rock Bottom Brewery and Yard House, so I agree with you that you can have both chain retail along with more unique fare. Moreoever, suburbanites, particularly the young, will travel there on light rail because the downtown is, relative to Phoenix's, large, dense, and rich. Fortunately, it never completely sanitized itself of urban elements. You can find almost anything there, which meant the soil was fertile enough to support not particularly special venues like chain brewpubs. You see the same thing in downtown San Diego where the success of the Gaslamp allowed the chains to move in since there were enough people on the sidewalks to ensure their success. Would downtown San Diego have succeeded with just the quasi-suburban Horton Plaza? You could argue that it was a necessary bridge to the renaissance of Gaslamp, which in turn, helped enlarge the footprint of downtown and ensured a diverse urban ecology.
Phoenix has intense headwinds that Portland and San Diego never faced, however. It doesn't have a large stock of neat old buildings. It's footprint is relatively small. Most importantly, it never developed (or was endowed with) attributes that make it special in its own way, like Tempe's Town Lake or a navigable river/harbor. This is why Phoenix gambled so heavily on sports' venues. The gamble didn't pay off, however, since they are, along with the convention center, dead zones on too many nights a year. San Diego's convention center is on the harbor (as is Petco Field) so it didn't create a huge dead zone in the middle of downtown. Portland's is across the river from downtown. Their downtowns weren't "saved" with lollapalooza "investments" that effectively killed them off. In the case of Phoenix, the cure proved worse than the disease itself.
Downtown LA is enjoying a spectacular renaissance now primarily because its urban building stock is so rich. Downtown Denver's warehouse district (LoDo) was large enough to gentrify into lofts and authentic brewpubs. Both downtowns are now undergoing residential building booms because the strong bones of their downtown allowed this growth. Phoenix does not possess this attribute.
What does Phoenix have? The good news is that there are a lot of people, mostly younger, who crave an authentic urban experience. They've been coming to downtown for decades hoping to breathe life into it. The local power structure, unamused with hippies and artists, rebuffed them. In a larger historic downtown, there probably would have been room enough for both camps. Urban planners in city hall understand the situation but have to serve the money side of this rivalry. That means more sanitizing of Phoenix's urban impulses. It means a gutted Evans-Churchill neighborhood, a Disneyfied Roosevelt Row, and as we see, tear-downs everywhere since land speculators pretty much dictate the facts on the ground everywhere in Arizona.
I'm going to concede our little debate to you because I no longer possess the one quality an urbanophile needs more than anything else: hope. I kept thinking over the decades that Phoenix would finally see in the manner of a Jane Jacobs the indisputable truths of organic urbanism. That won't happen in Phoenix because its bones are too broken too mend. Yes, there will be new high-rises and "entertainment districts" but no real urban spark. Still, something is better than nothing, up to and including chain alehouses.
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