Daylighting Sawmill River

TheLittleGuy · #1 Posted **Oct 30, 2014, 8:23 PM**

I'm a proponent of daylighting Sawmill River right from Sullivan’s Pond straight through to where it empties out into the habrour for a number of reasons. I believe it would boost resale value to the downtown of Dartmouth. Also believe it would kick start additional development. Also believe it would add to eco-tourism. And lastly, I believe it would do wonders for beautification.

IanWatson · #2 Posted **Oct 30, 2014, 8:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLittleGuy

I'm a proponent of daylighting Sawmill River right from Sullivan’s Pond straight through to where it empties out into the habrour for a number of reasons. I believe it would boost resale value to the downtown of Dartmouth. Also believe it would kick start additional development. Also believe it would add to eco-tourism. And lastly, I believe it would do wonders for beautification.

It's happening.

TheLittleGuy · #3 Posted **Oct 30, 2014, 9:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanWatson

It's happening.

What is happening?

IanWatson · #4 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 1:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLittleGuy

What is happening?

Daylighting Sawmill River. A local engineering firm has done the design for it. Sorry, I don't have much more at the moment because it was a little while ago I had a talk with my source, and I feel like they told me the design wasn't public yet. I'll check in on that and see if I can give more info.

Maybe this is the RFP?: http://novascotia.ca/tenders/pt_file...rs/P022013.pdf

Keith P. · #5 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 1:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLittleGuy

I'm a proponent of daylighting Sawmill River right from Sullivan’s Pond straight through to where it empties out into the habrour for a number of reasons. I believe it would boost resale value to the downtown of Dartmouth. Also believe it would kick start additional development. Also believe it would add to eco-tourism. And lastly, I believe it would do wonders for beautification.

No tourists are going to visit to look at the creek.

As for beautification, that is arguable. It depnds on how it is done and more importantly how it is maintained. A creek bed full of Tim's cups, abandoned shopping carts and city litter is hardly attractive.

Probably a waste of money.

TheLittleGuy · #6 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 2:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanWatson

Daylighting Sawmill River. A local engineering firm has done the design for it. Sorry, I don't have much more at the moment because it was a little while ago I had a talk with my source, and I feel like they told me the design wasn't public yet. I'll check in on that and see if I can give more info.

Maybe this is the RFP?: http://novascotia.ca/tenders/pt_file...rs/P022013.pdf

That is exciting that others feel the same way I do, with the upcoming anniversary of the Shubie Canal, we have an opportunity to show it off and it would be popular with Kayaking crowd if done right.

Colin May · #7 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 4:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLittleGuy

I'm a proponent of daylighting Sawmill River right from Sullivan’s Pond straight through to where it empties out into the habrour for a number of reasons. I believe it would boost resale value to the downtown of Dartmouth. Also believe it would kick start additional development. Also believe it would add to eco-tourism. And lastly, I believe it would do wonders for beautification.

Resale values in downtown Dartmouth don't need a boost. Homes sell in a day or two at asking price or above. There are more buyers than sellers.
HRM planned to get $400,000 from the developer at Seagate but that plan is in the dumpster after he left town and put the land up for sale early this year. The 'For Sale' sign is no longer there and the lot is now a parking lot.
Tourism in DD is woeful; signage is almost non existent and cruise passengers wander around trying to figure out what they are looking at.

Waye Mason · #8 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 10:45 AM**

I don't think the whole thing is getting daylighted. Daylit? Part of the water race is being revealed but one of the guys on the Ekistics team who did the first study told me it might cost $20 mil to do the whole river.

OldDartmouthMark · #9 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 1:43 PM**

Does anybody know what's under there, for example does stonework from the original canal still exist underground (was there even stonework in this section?), or was that destroyed when the pipes were put in?

Just curious, as it would be cool to unearth some of the original structure from the canal as part of the daylighting plan (or maybe that's what is being proposed?).

TheLittleGuy · #10 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 2:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

I don't think the whole thing is getting daylighted. Daylit? Part of the water race is being revealed but one of the guys on the Ekistics team who did the first study told me it might cost $20 mil to do the whole river.

Bringing in an excavator and digging up soil and digging up a small stretch of pavement is not going to cost $20 million.

IanWatson · #11 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 3:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLittleGuy

Bringing in an excavator and digging up soil and digging up a small stretch of pavement is not going to cost $20 million.

It easily could if you start digging up the road and rearranging the intersection of Portland and Alderny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

I don't think the whole thing is getting daylighted. Daylit?

Yes, my understanding was that it would just be the portion between the Esso station and Irishtown Road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith P.

No tourists are going to visit to look at the creek.

As for beautification, that is arguable. It depnds on how it is done and more importantly how it is maintained. A creek bed full of Tim's cups, abandoned shopping carts and city litter is hardly attractive.

Probably a waste of money.

Does absolutely everything other than filling potholes have to be a negative? Dear lord. Is there anything about the current Sullivan's Pond + exposed canal by Kings Wharf that would lead you to think this would be a mess? And no, tourists don't come to visit a creek, but the experience of the tourists (and residents) who do come would certainly be enhanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Does anybody know what's under there, for example does stonework from the original canal still exist underground (was there even stonework in this section?), or was that destroyed when the pipes were put in?

Yes, there is a lot of existing stonework and, IIRC, maybe even machinery from the inclined plane. Last time they were digging in that area they did a full archeological survey. They didn't have any mandate at the time to do anything with what's there so they carefully covered it over to preserve it until a comprehensive plan/design could be made for the area.

OldDartmouthMark · #12 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 3:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanWatson

Yes, there is a lot of existing stonework and, IIRC, maybe even machinery from the inclined plane. Last time they were digging in that area they did a full archeological survey. They didn't have any mandate at the time to do anything with what's there so they carefully covered it over to preserve it until a comprehensive plan/design could be made for the area.

Now you have my attention!

Having grown up in the area I have done a little reading on the canal over the years, so this would be a very fascinating project for me.

I personally think it could be an interesting point for tourists, but I think its importance is much higher from the viewpoint of local history. This was an extremely ambitious project that had a lot of effort and expense devoted to it, only to ultimately fail. It has significance far beyond a tourist attraction IMHO.

That said, I think it would indeed be an interesting site for tourists to visit - the key would be proper marketing to make them aware of the history and site locations.

I'll make sure I keep checking back here to keep up on info as it is released. Thanks very much!

JET · #13 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 4:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLittleGuy

That is exciting that others feel the same way I do, with the upcoming anniversary of the Shubie Canal, we have an opportunity to show it off and it would be popular with Kayaking crowd if done right.

I think daylighting is a geat idea, but I can't envision kayaks there.

IanWatson · #14 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 4:01 PM**

Hmmm. Looks like this one has been having troubles with getting inthe budget: http://metronews.ca/news/halifax/512...anal-greenway/

The 2014 construction season is coming to a close so evidentially it's been delayed another year. Maybe this one needs some Council pressure to make sure things get started in 2015.

Looks like the scope of work is in the $2mil range.

Colin May · #15 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 5:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanWatson

Hmmm. Looks like this one has been having troubles with getting inthe budget: http://metronews.ca/news/halifax/512...anal-greenway/

The 2014 construction season is coming to a close so evidentially it's been delayed another year. Maybe this one needs some Council pressure to make sure things get started in 2015.

Looks like the scope of work is in the $2mil range.

The plan was reliant on the federal infrastructure plan and the $400,000+ from the developer of Seagate. The metronews pegs the project at $2.6 million. Perhaps 2015 when the feds will be looking for nice projects for more pre-election Infrastructure spending.
I remind readers that the NDP was not keen to put a nickel into the new library until John Baird came to town and said the feds were good for about $14 million (1/3 of the then estimated cost). Eventually Dexter reluctantly came on board.
And it depends on when the province wants to spend money - I can see Joanne Bernard wanting cash for northend Dartmouth - a modern and larger Boys & Girls club is probably near the top of her list; the area certainly needs substantial public investment.

worldlyhaligonian · #16 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 8:34 PM**

I assume this will happen eventually... probably the city will be the only thing standing in the way of itself.

A fund for a number of these small projects would do wonders for HRM... but that would be too innovative.

Waye Mason · #17 Posted **Oct 31, 2014, 8:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLittleGuy

Bringing in an excavator and digging up soil and digging up a small stretch of pavement is not going to cost $20 million.

Keeping the Esso station from falling into that trench might though. EDIT just dug into my notes, the all up early Ekistics proposal, that included full daylighting, revealing the stone bridge that is under Prince Albert Road (paved over) and all the fixings was 15-20 mil. Daylighting by itself would be a big part of that but not the whole cost. Daylighting is problematic where the watercourse runs directly adjacent to buildings built within a few feet of their property lines. I believe the 2 million is to daylight part of the mechanism that is still on the Starrs sight, but not the whole river. I'd love to be wrong though!

Colin May · #18 Posted **Nov 1, 2014, 2:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

Keeping the Esso station from falling into that trench might though. EDIT just dug into my notes, the all up early Ekistics proposal, that included full daylighting, revealing the stone bridge that is under Prince Albert Road (paved over) and all the fixings was 15-20 mil. Daylighting by itself would be a big part of that but not the whole cost. Daylighting is problematic where the watercourse runs directly adjacent to buildings built within a few feet of their property lines. I believe the 2 million is to daylight part of the mechanism that is still on the Starrs sight, but not the whole river. I'd love to be wrong though!

The last part is correct. The Walter Regan obsession with putting salmon back in the river and up through the lakes knows no bounds.

TheLittleGuy · #19 Posted **Nov 1, 2014, 3:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waye Mason

Keeping the Esso station from falling into that trench might though. EDIT just dug into my notes, the all up early Ekistics proposal, that included full daylighting, revealing the stone bridge that is under Prince Albert Road (paved over) and all the fixings was 15-20 mil. Daylighting by itself would be a big part of that but not the whole cost. Daylighting is problematic where the watercourse runs directly adjacent to buildings built within a few feet of their property lines. I believe the 2 million is to daylight part of the mechanism that is still on the Starrs sight, but not the whole river. I'd love to be wrong though!

Just make it happen, do a full daylighting of the river, it is something that would be useful for us as a society to embrace for a change instead of bitching about a building being to tall.

gm_scott · #20 Posted **Nov 1, 2014, 12:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLittleGuy

Just make it happen, do a full daylighting of the river, it is something that would be useful for us as a society to embrace for a change instead of bitching about a building being to tall.

I hate to single you out, because I do see others doing this, but I must share my thoughts after seeing this. I realize people may not share the same opinion as Waye, but we shouldn't create a hostile environment if we disagree with someone. I think it is great we have a city councillor who is genuinely interested in planning but if we keep this kind of thing up he may not come back. I find this board very respectful compared to others and we should keep that going, for all members.