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  #121  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 10:37 PM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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I would argue the numbers depend on many factors like upkeep done over the years, property taxes (which may depend on development potential), and heritage incentives.
You may be correct. But we'll never know, because nobody saw fit to challenge Armour's numbers. So we can only conclude that they were accurate and defensible, or that they weren't but Heritage Trust simply made a huge tactical blunder in choosing not to gather expert evidence to debunk them.

In fact, they chose to contest the Waterside project solely on heritage grounds, on the premise that the intent of the MPS was that a building's heritage registration status makes it essentially untouchable, regardless of the wishes of the owner or who has to bear the cost - whatever the cost - of preserving it. That, arguably, was a very big legal miscalculation.

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I'm not necessarily against the development per se, but I think the new street level construction is so-so. I have no issues with the Duke St side.
And I'm not necessarily for the development per se. I wasn't against it in principle but hate how some of it turned out. Not having street-level retail, particularly on the Duke-Upper Water and Duke-Hollis corners (ideally, restaurants or pubs, but not necessarily) was a shameful mistake, in my opinion. It used to be an interesting, active area. Now it's deader than Kyrie Irving's brain (and potentially career).

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And of course let's all note that Waterside was cut down to a very low height for no good reason, reducing the potential budget.
Agreed. Ridiculous.
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  #122  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Goode View Post
You may be correct. But we'll never know, because nobody saw fit to challenge Armour's numbers. So we can only conclude that they were accurate and defensible, or that they weren't but Heritage Trust simply made a huge tactical blunder in choosing not to gather expert evidence to debunk them.
I meant more that if there had been years of proactive maintenance, tax breaks, and heritage preservation funding, the buildings might have been in a much better state and on better financial footing. The municipality and province created the mix of business incentives. The mix for this site was high taxes, low height limits, and weak heritage protection. So the output was a squat box with mediocre heritage elements.
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  #123  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 10:58 PM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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I meant more that if there had been years of proactive maintenance, tax breaks, and heritage preservation funding, the buildings might have been in a much better state and on better financial footing. The municipality and province created the mix of business incentives. The mix for this site was high taxes, low height limits, and weak heritage protection.
Sorry - now that I re-read your post I get that. I should have let it sink in before responding.
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  #124  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 11:38 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Originally Posted by Saul Goode View Post
And I'm not necessarily for the development per se. I wasn't against it in principle but hate how some of it turned out. Not having street-level retail, particularly on the Duke-Upper Water and Duke-Hollis corners (ideally, restaurants or pubs, but not necessarily) was a shameful mistake, in my opinion. It used to be an interesting, active area. Now it's deader than Kyrie Irving's brain (and potentially career).

Isn't the space at street level now RBC's retail/main banking branch?

On the Water St side there is a retail space adjacent to the RBC space that to my knowledge has been available to lease for years with no takers.
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  #125  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2021, 11:41 PM
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I have heard numerous times how certain heritage buildings are unable to be saved or how it would be all but impossible to rebuild a lost building. Perhaps we could take example from Dresden, Germany?

Dresden Rebuilt:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ks-like-today/
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  #126  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2021, 1:17 AM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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Isn't the space at street level now RBC's retail/main banking branch?
I guess so. Pretty dead-looking, though.

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On the Water St side there is a retail space adjacent to the RBC space that to my knowledge has been available to lease for years with no takers.
Maybe I should re-phrase: instead of "shameful mistake", how about "crying shame"? Especially since those spaces were occupied by functioning retail businesses before Waterside was built.
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  #127  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2021, 8:56 PM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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I'm sure that Armour would have been just as happy to level the whole goddamn block, if it weren't for the complaining of those pesky heritage zealota
You could possibly be right, but I don't think so. Whatever you think of his built legacy, Ben McCrea was actually a proponent of recognizing and preserving heritage - he was the prime mover behind Historic Properties, after all - and though many of us are not all that fond of his particular style of doing it (principally the dreaded "facadeism" - Founders Square, Waterside), he did recognize the value of heritage properties.

And before anyone speculates: no, I had no connection to Mr. McCrea (or his company) other than having met him briefly a few times in the course of work. I just don't think it's fair to assume that he would've torn everything down if he could've got away with it.
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  #128  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2021, 9:38 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Saul Goode View Post
You could possibly be right, but I don't think so. Whatever you think of his built legacy, Ben McCrea was actually a proponent of recognizing and preserving heritage - he was the prime mover behind Historic Properties, after all - and though many of us are not all that fond of his particular style of doing it (principally the dreaded "facadeism" - Founders Square, Waterside), he did recognize the value of heritage properties.

And before anyone speculates: no, I had no connection to Mr. McCrea (or his company) other than having met him briefly a few times in the course of work. I just don't think it's fair to assume that he would've torn everything down if he could've got away with it.
I will take your statements as being the real truth. In actuality I was being over-critical and arguably too negative... a reflection of my general frustration with the way heritage properties have been treated in my hometown. I have tended to refrain from commenting about it in recent years, and perhaps that's the best course moving forward as it just tends to step on toes and create bad feelings.
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  #129  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2021, 10:05 PM
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  #130  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2021, 3:47 PM
Aegon123 Aegon123 is offline
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The Acadian building is almost down (keeping the facade of course). The Dennis building is being prepared for demo. I predict they will have the guards up in the next few weeks, then it will be gutted until only the facade remains.
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  #131  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2021, 4:16 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Another one bites the dust. Oh well, at least something is getting built here.

I assume there will be a little delay for archaeological digs to happen on these sites before excavation continues? The Dennis was built in 1863, so there should be some interesting historical artifacts waiting to be found under its foundation. The Acadian Recorder building was constructed in 1900.

I still think it's a shame that more aspects of the original buildings couldn't have been kept, but I've already overstated my opinions in this forum... a featureless box with some old facades stuck to the front of it is still better than an empty lot.

Expect to see some "friends of the mural" protests happening soon...
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  #132  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2021, 10:59 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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I should also say thanks for the update and welcome to the forum, Aegon123.

Don't mind my comments, I am always complaining about 100+ year old buildings being torn down or facaded in Halifax. I have a thing about that, in that I don't like it, but am happy to see development happening at the same time.

I appreciate your letting us know what's going on at this site.
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  #133  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2022, 3:29 PM
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Love this development, I find the metal support structure quite interesting. Worth a look in person. Took this picture Feb 21st
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  #134  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2022, 3:37 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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The support structure is pretty dramatic looking from a distance, particularly from up the hill along George Street.
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  #135  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2022, 12:27 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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History repeats itself in a sense. It will be rebuilt yet again.



Source
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  #136  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2022, 8:33 PM
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The old Dennis Building -- all but its east and north walls -- is slowly disappearing. As with the former Roy Building before it, the contractor is using a small front-end loader to dismantle the structure floor by floor.

I took the photos earlier this afternoon.



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  #137  
Old Posted May 1, 2022, 6:27 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Thanks for sharing the pics, ns_kid.

It occurs to me when looking at them, that there is probably nobody still alive who remembers that last time this building was an empty shell, when it burnt in 1912 (the pic I posted above). It always saddens me a little when a structure that has managed to survive for over a century (and parts of it 160 years) is reduced to lipstick on a new building, but so be it. At least there will be some memory of it left over and above old photographs. Might even prompt some people in the future to look up the long history that this building endured.

Beyond that, your photos reveal the uncovering (by demolition) of what appears to be a steel I-beam structure. I hadn't really thought much of it before, but when the first 4-storey iteration of the building was completed in 1862, the inner supporting structures would likely have been large wooden beams and columns, with stone and masonry comprising the outer walls. At some point an extra floor was added, but I've never found any reference as to when, why, and how this was done.

The fire of 1912 ,which appeared to have been quite severe as it burned a large section of the block, would likely have completely burned out any wooden structure inside the building - which is illustrated by the photo which seems to show only emptiness remaining inside.

Steel building structure was still relatively new to Halifax, with the first steel structured building having been completed in 1894. I'm a little in awe at the scope of this project for the time and am thinking it must have been a fairly big deal in local architecture and building circles in 1912. I'm also concluding that adding the extra 3 floors on top of the original 4-storey shell was done because this 'new' technology now allowed stone/masonry buildings to be built higher than in the past.

I'm also impressed that there must have been some admiration of stone building construction at the time (despite Halifax's apparent lack of respect for old buildings that developed later in the century), as one would think it would have perhaps been easier to just level the remains and start over. But they didn't do that, and in fact added 3 storeys that were faced with different materials, but IMHO were respectful to the existing materials and led to what I think was an attractive (and likely imposing for the time) building.

A little sad to see the structure no longer surviving, but am happy that something is being done with that perpetually blank lot...
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  #138  
Old Posted May 2, 2022, 1:09 PM
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As a functional building, the Dennis was terrible, as we have discussed here in the past. One tiny elevator shaft, full of asbestos, leaky windows, no climate control, only one internal stairwell (you may remember the secondary escape stair with its weathered corrugated cladding hung off the back), terrible low-bid govt renos inside over many years. Nothing to feel sad about those aspects going away.
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  #139  
Old Posted May 3, 2022, 3:15 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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As a functional building, the Dennis was terrible, as we have discussed here in the past. One tiny elevator shaft, full of asbestos, leaky windows, no climate control, only one internal stairwell (you may remember the secondary escape stair with its weathered corrugated cladding hung off the back), terrible low-bid govt renos inside over many years. Nothing to feel sad about those aspects going away.
Yes, I was thinking of your previous comments about that building when I wrote the above... so definitely there are mixed feelings, and I think moving forward a useful new building built to current standards for energy efficiency and ventilation is an overall win, not to mention this empty lot finally being used for something besides parking 10 or less cars.

That said, a part of me laments the loss of the built form of the building, and that's what I'm referring to. Keeping a facade is not really keeping a building, though as you say the character of the internals would have been lost decades ago.

And I should add paradoxically that the deconstruction of the built form has given some insight as to how it was built - info that would only be hiding in some plans that may no longer exist, and the memories of people who no longer are with us...
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  #140  
Old Posted May 22, 2022, 5:52 PM
RoshanMcG RoshanMcG is offline
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