Did the "California Dream" finally end this week after a long struggle?

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by JManc

And I'd argue that's because it was due to reputations these areas fostered decades ago and only reinforced themselves over the years. My impression of CA today isn't that far off of how I imagined it as a kid in the 80's. NYC and CA are also the media centers so as long as that's the case, these two will always have a pull.

california will always have considerable power over its image, and there will always be an audience ready to buy in.

no matter what kind of economic headwinds are present coastal california will be the american mediterranean. you can’t 100% replicate that in texas or tennessee or whatever.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by homebucket

I think earthquakes are still the biggest threat to California, not wildfires, although these may become more frequent over time due to climate change, leading to unstable weather and drought. Urban fires overall are extremely rare. I believe the last one was in the Oakland hills in 1991, nearly 30 years ago. In fact, the current fires aren't even in the major urban areas. They're in the local surrounding mountains. It is the fire from these mountains that are spreading smoke over the urban areas.

It's also a misconception that this is an annual occurrence. The vast majority of the wildfires occur in rural areas, and are actually vital for forest ecology, renewing the environment and wildlife. It may sound counterintuitive but frequent fires are a good thing, while infrequent fires lead to an unnatural build up of fuel. In more recent years, fires have unfortunately actually reached and burned down several rural towns, but perhaps these towns should not have been built there in the first place. California, and many western states, have always had wildfires, and will continue to do so, as it is part of its natural ecology.

I'm sure the north one ignored this too.

[ssiguy]

The facts speak for themselves.

Pre-COVID, California is growing at a rate slower than the national average and MUCH slower than any other warm weather state save poverty stricken Ala/Miss/Lou. It is as beautiful as it always was, still offers a lovely climate, and has wages far above the national average and yet it is no longer a draw. It loses more people than it gains every year and if it wasn't for immigration, the state would actually be shrinking.

So what's happened? Yes it is more expensive and has {by US standards} high taxes but much of this is made up by far higher incomes. It just has, over time, lost it's "cool" factor.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The facts speak for themselves.

Pre-COVID, California is growing at a rate slower than the national average and MUCH slower than any other warm weather state save poverty stricken Ala/Miss/Lou. It is as beautiful as it always was, still offers a lovely climate, and has wages far above the national average and yet it is no longer a draw. It loses more people than it gains every year and if it wasn't for immigration, the state would actually be shrinking.

So what's happened? Yes it is more expensive and has {by US standards} high taxes but much of this is made up by far higher incomes. It just has, over time, lost it's "cool" factor.

naw, it’s still cool. it’s just harder to become middle class “made.”

this economic swath that nobody wants to talk about, anymore. it’s gauche.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The facts speak for themselves.

Pre-COVID, California is growing at a rate slower than the national average and MUCH slower than any other warm weather state save poverty stricken Ala/Miss/Lou. It is as beautiful as it always was, still offers a lovely climate, and has wages far above the national average and yet it is no longer a draw. It loses more people than it gains every year and if it wasn't for immigration, the state would actually be shrinking.

So what's happened? Yes it is more expensive and has {by US standards} high taxes but much of this is made up by far higher incomes. It just has, over time, lost it's "cool" factor.

For you. Social Media says different.
And the facts also say 500,000 people still moved in last year. And there's articles that many of them are successful/upper middle class.

[homebucket]

I don't think it has lost its cool factor. It's just becoming more expensive to the point where it may not be worth it to stay. Also, other places are becoming cool now, and at a more affordable price. There are just more options. Again, if California were more affordable, no one would be leaving.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by homebucket

I don't think it has lost its cool factor. It's just becoming more expensive to the point where it may not be worth it to stay. Also, other places are becoming cool now, and at a more affordable price. There are just more options. Again, if California were more affordable, no one would be leaving.

California haters will never accept it, even though it's true. Many Californians who leave because of housing reasons, are pretty sad about it. Sure there's some who get fed up with taxes, but that is a minority.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by LA21st

California haters will never accept it, even though it's true. Many Californians who leave because of housing reasons, are pretty sad about it. Sure there's some who get fed up with taxes, but that is a minority.

nobody i know who lives there (or left) wants to leave for any other reason than COL. i know that people exist that have other reasons though.

even conservative leaning people i met working there clearly were deeply attached to california and really had a hard time imagining leaving.

i also met people who had boomeranged back to california to sacramento to give it a second chance after leaving the bay area for places like austin.

[Will O' Wisp]

Did the "California Dream" end in the 1850s after the easily accessible gold ran out? Did the "California Dream" end in 1906 when its largest city was destroyed by an earthquake? Did the "California Dream" end in the 1960s when vast suburban tracks began to cover the farmlands and the environmental movement halted oil exploration? Did the "California Dream" end in the late 1990s-early 2000s when the twin shocks of falling defense spending after the end of the cold war and the dot-com bubble bursting devastated the state economy?

For that matter, is the "New York Dream" dead after COVID? Is the "Texas Dream" dead after Hurricane Harvey and the drop in oil prices? Will the "Florida Dream" die of climate change?

The answer to all of these is no, of course. Dreams change. Maybe one chapter of the California dream is closed, but there will be others. There always are.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

nobody i know who lives there (or left) wants to leave for any other reason than COL. i know that people exist that have other reasons though.

even conservative leaning people i met working there clearly were deeply attached to california and really had a hard time imagining leaving.

i also met people who had boomeranged back to california to sacramento to give it a second chance after leaving the bay area for places like austin.

That's my experience too.

[badrunner]

Most people I know who have left are miserable in their new surroundings. It's a downgrade for most people, even if you can get a bigger house or whatever, it's just not the same. Those "cheaper alternatives to California" are cheaper for a reason.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by badrunner

Most people I know who have left are miserable in their new surroundings. It's a downgrade for most people, even if you can get a bigger house or whatever, it's just not the same. Those "cheaper alternatives to California" are cheaper for a reason.

i was born in “the waste,” lol, so i never have to experience leaving california. i can live the fantasy and get paid to live and work out there a month or two a year.

[ChrisLA]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

the high threat areas in the north bay are always the subdivisions and exurban properties above the valleys. the main transmission lines and highways run in the valley floors and dont have the blackouts and firestorms, generally.

much of the LA basin is also like this, more so than the bay area, so is probably less directly impacted. it was only mostly farms and rural areas being impacted probably before the 60s, really.

Yep not one blackout or brownout, I live in LA’s San Fernando Valley. I’m not saying some people aren’t affected by fires destroying their property in this state, but overall this is a huge state with a very huge population.

I was born and raised in California and lived all but six months of my 56 years of life here. Not even one time, nor any family member (we live all over this state) or friends have ever lost their homes to fire or an earthquake. I also know some people who live in a fire prone area and one in particular has lived in the same home since the early 1970’s, and yet their neighborhood is still in existence.

It just blows my mind how the national news portrays it as if half of California is either burning up or having a mud slide, or a flood. Let me tell you 99.999% of us go about our daily lives like any other place unaffected.

It gets annoying after a while when outsiders constantly ask if it’s burning up or what’s its like to be in a earthquake, or a blackout. I actually just had someone over the phone in Florida from Costco Customer Service asked me this yesterday. Oh the other thing I always get from people telling me we you live in a desert. I was asked yesterday if we had trees, I really wanted to just send a picture just to show the guy we probably had more trees in my neighborhood than where he was at.

[ChrisLA]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

nobody i know who lives there (or left) wants to leave for any other reason than COL. i know that people exist that have other reasons though.

even conservative leaning people i met working there clearly were deeply attached to california and really had a hard time imagining leaving.

i also met people who had boomeranged back to california to sacramento to give it a second chance after leaving the bay area for places like austin.

That would be the only reason I would leave, and still the place I want to live in would be just as expensive as Los Angeles, so what’s the point. I’m pretty much going to live my life out here, since I’m locked into working for the state until retirement (pension). You can’t transfer that to another state or your years of service and I’m too old to start over, so basically I’m not going anywhere.

[LA21st]

Yup. It's honestly bizarre. These people act California is the size of DC and anything that happens affects 40 million people. Absolutely bonkers. People just like being negative and ignorant about it.

[jd3189]

Yeah, the overreactions are getting stupid. The only thing that bothers me about the fires is the smog they are producing in the inland and even at the coast. No one is really affected by it unless they live where the fires are occurring. And if the wildfires are required to maintain the health of the environment, then so be it. People should be cautious with building in the forests and areas prone to fires. If they want that big estate, maybe Cali is too full for them and Texas is a better option.

[The North One]

The Californians (or rather Californian) here seem to be the only ones overreacting. Nobody said every last person in the state was having their house ripped by a forest fire.

Obviously the state is a great place for many people. But some of you are deeply offended on a personal level at the mere idea that many other people would also be better off or *gasp* even prefer living outside of it. Or wont accept the fact that California is as crippled with problems as the rest of the United States.

Nobody would say you're some sort of deprived plebeian for staying in California. But that seems to be exactly how Californians act towards anybody who dares to live outside it's borders. Like we've already had a few near caricature level elitist takes here.

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Ditto for Chicago/land.

Moving to a completely brand new region can induce a lot of fear in many people.

I think one of the coping mechanisms for some is to denigrate the place they're leaving to reassure themselves that they're making the correct decision.

These types of externally-oriented people often never find their shangri-la because the root of their issue(s) is internal, not their surroundings.

Same here in the Philadelphia region.

It's someone announcing they are moving to Florida like they are escaping something horrible and moving to perfection.

All I say is let me know when you are moving back...because eventually many of them do.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

california will always have considerable power over its image, and there will always be an audience ready to buy in.

no matter what kind of economic headwinds are present coastal california will be the american mediterranean. you can’t 100% replicate that in texas or tennessee or whatever.

Texas has potential. It's a big/ diverse state. Not right now but down the road when it flips politically and shakes the negative stigma and continues to diversify economy. Tesla is setting up here. SpaceX and Blue Origin have a significant presence and I think over time, more innovators will pop up here. Going to be a while. California will probably always stand out and be the aspiration for others though. I'm among the many here who want to 'California my Texas'.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by JManc

Texas has potential. It's a big/ diverse state. Not right now but down the road when it flips politically and shakes the negative stigma and continues to diversify economy. Tesla is setting up here. SpaceX and Blue Origin have a significant presence and I think over time, more innovators will pop up here. Going to be a while. California will probably always stand out and be the aspiration for others though. I'm among the many here who want to 'California my Texas'.

thats interesting. i hope texas continues its expansion like this. america really depends on it.

the worst outcome here at this point is that the cream of the sunbelt shuts down.