Canadian Urban Canyons

[Hali87]

It's a certain kind of hip. There's stuff like the Fringe Festival and the local theatre/music/art scenes are fairly strong within a Canadian context but this isn't really apparent unless you live there or know enough people who do. It's different than in Halifax (and Van/Vic from what I gather) where hipsterism basically is the dominant culture these days.

To bring this back on topic, I've always found the Jasper Avenue streetscape in Edmonton interesting. The scale of things is just so different from most Canadian downtowns. Everything's so wide and it's lined with modest highrises in a straight shot for miles. Most of it is very car-oriented but driving through it is a pretty cool experience.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by MacLac

Portland comparison makes absolute sense...since the City of Roses and YEG are both the "Hipster Capitals" of each respective country.....that's the only quantifier one needs to make!!!

Two questions:

1. What's "YEG"?
2. Since Toronto is obviously the hipster capital of Canada, I assume you're using "YEG" to refer to Toronto, but I've never heard that before. What does it mean?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Toronto's closest comparable in the US is the New York borough of Queens. They were largely built at roughly the same time so many of the streetscapes look similar. Queens even has a skyscraper node in 'Long Island City'.

Yes.

Originally Posted by isaidso

Chicago is very Midwestern while Toronto doesn't look or feel like that at all.

Yes.

Originally Posted by isaidso

If I had to pick a global city which most closely mimics Toronto it would be Melbourne.

I wouldn't say "closely mimics," as there are clearly stark differences between Toronto and Melbourne, but the streetcar/tram tracks do provide a similar sort of vibe.

Originally Posted by megadude

From my perspective, Toronto and NYC are comparable for being the financial capitals of their country. For feel, it's Chicago.

Once more, with feeling: Toronto does not "feel" (or look, or have the history of, etc. etc. etc.) anything like Chicago whatsoever.

It's just not the same at all. Please, for the love of Christ, stop with the Chicago = Toronto comparisons. There's a Great Lake there, and from a distance the skyline is vaguely similar, but after that there's nothing.

Nada. Zilch.

Go to Chicago and Toronto. Spend some time there. Look around. You'll get it.

Failing that, check out any street in Chicago in Google Street View. It won't look like Toronto.

Here, I'll help you: <random Google Street view pin drop> https://www.google.ca/maps/@41.84627...7i16384!8i8192

Go up and down the streets for a bit. It does not look like Toronto in the slightest. Same with the rest of the city.

Chicago and Toronto are very different. They are not analogous. If you say they are, it means that you have not seen or been to Chicago and Toronto and you know nothing about these cities.

Pedant out!

[megadude]

Damn! It seems like your posts and opinions are always so as a matter of fact like you're the authority on any subject you discuss.

Once more, IT'S MY FEEL AND PERSPECTIVE. Do I have to spell that out for you? Just like I how I described Queens... based on my perspective. You see how that works?

I spent about three days in Chicago and a couple of suburbs a few years ago. I was not as impressed by it as much as most people are.

I even said the housing stock in TO was indeed more similar to Queens than to Chicago and here you are posting a google maps link to Chicago housing stock.

Maybe let people have their own opinion? Particularly if they explain why.

Originally Posted by rousseau

Yes.


Yes.


I wouldn't say "closely mimics," as there are clearly stark differences between Toronto and Melbourne, but the streetcar/tram tracks do provide a similar sort of vibe.


Once more, with feeling: Toronto does not "feel" (or look, or have the history of, etc. etc. etc.) anything like Chicago whatsoever.

It's just not the same at all. Please, for the love of Christ, stop with the Chicago = Toronto comparisons. There's a Great Lake there, and from a distance the skyline is vaguely similar, but after that there's nothing.

Nada. Zilch.

Go to Chicago and Toronto. Spend some time there. Look around. You'll get it.

Failing that, check out any street in Chicago in Google Street View. It won't look like Toronto.

Here, I'll help you: <random Google Street view pin drop> https://www.google.ca/maps/@41.84627...7i16384!8i8192

Go up and down the streets for a bit. It does not look like Toronto in the slightest. Same with the rest of the city.

Chicago and Toronto are very different. They are not analogous. If you say they are, it means that you have not seen or been to Chicago and Toronto and you know nothing about these cities.

Pedant out!

[rousseau]

I glossed over where you say Toronto's housing stock is more like Queens, so fair enough.

Still, though, Chicago simply does not feel like Toronto at all. The people, the vibe, the streets, the history that made the city what it is...totally different.

Much of that is down to differences between Canada and the U.S., admittedly.

[megadude]

Let's talk about the human element. I did some walking around Chicago, I took both the el train and the commuter train, I walked around the DT of one of the suburbs, I fished one lake in town or right on the city limits, went to Cubs, Sox and Blackhawks games and took a bus tour. Obviously I spoke to people during each experience and those experiences were way closer to TO than NY, including Queens.

In those 12 days in NY, I saw a cunty lady on the subway on the way to the Mets game in Queens in addition to cunty people at the UPS store, Chrylser Building observation deck (the mgr.), several drivers, Subway restaurant in Nassau county and a dude calling a cabbie a terrorist and threatening to blow him up instead of the other way around.

In CHI, I didn't witness a single unpleasant act.

Even when it came down to the people in the financial district, I felt like Wall Street workers weren't that far off from what I see in the movies. I listened to a conversation by these two bankers on the subway in front of me. I overheard these I-banking guys walking ahead of me on their way to play ball after work. It was a level of industry talk I only hear DT TO on the streets or train on the odd occasion, and I've been working in the financial district since 2007. I came into the Chicago central station on the commuter train from the burbs one day and walked around the core and that felt more like TO to me.

Edit: Funny enough, the last two financial convos I heard on the street walking to work, both in the past few months, were guys from NY.

Now, to be specific, Queens was the subject instead of NYC as a whole and I admitted I hadn't spent enough time in Queens to make fair enough judgement so I threw in the Manhattan aspect because Manhattan is often what's thought of when comparing NY to TO. Just my two cents.


And if you read my post again, I said I felt Chicago was more similar to TO than Queens, for me. Notice I didn't say it was a close match, but if I'm comparing CHI vs NYC then I'm picking Chicago.

And like I said, as can be discerned from my other posts around the forum, geography is weighted higher for me than a lot of other criteria. When I was out and about in NY, no matter what borough, I passed by the ocean and beaches. I passed by the Hudson and East Rivers, which have shipping traffic. There are sailboats everywhere, in all the nooks and crannies of NY's coastline. CHI and TO, both with a smooth coastline compared to NY, and that's where the ships and sailboats are, not all over the place. Though TO does have the islands as well.

I haven't been to either city outside of summer, but I picture the weather in CHI closer to Toronto's in the rest of the seasons.

I'll also add that pedestrians don't wait for the lights in Manhattan and it's the only city I know like that. So many aggressive drivers all over NY and in NJ across the Hudson too. Did you notice the many, many bumper guards on cars in NY? I've never noticed it anywhere else. I had to buy one when I was there. I witnessed two cars squeeze into places they didn't belong while parallel parking and literally bumping the other cars.

So many experiences in NY that make it too different for me.

I'll even throw in the airports. LGA and JFK, both in Queens, are right on the water. ORD and MDW are well inland, just like YYZ.


Basically, CHI people made it feel more like TO than anywhere in NY.


Edit: I'll also add to the geography aspect that you don't cross massive bridges or tunnels to get into and out of TO and CHI like you do in NY. Like has been said on here before, MTL also has some serious NYC vibes, especially if you think geographically.

[softee]

IMO the only U.S. city that "feels" anything like Toronto while walking through its neighbourhoods is NYC. Both are the #1 city of their country and are international financial, media and immigration hubs with a similar mix of people from all over the world and they both have lots of vibrant neighbourhood commercial strips with tightly packed shops and diverse, multi-cultural restaurant options that go above and beyond that of other cities in either country. They are the two most heavily used transit systems in the U.S. and Canada and are #1 and #2 for having the most hi-rise buildings in North America. NYC is just 3X the population and 2X the density of Toronto.

[MonkeyRonin]

New York is the only city in the US that has that same sort of global polyglot immigrant thing going on that Toronto has (Los Angeles does too, but it's got a distinctly Mexican character that Toronto lacks). Culturally, it feels the most familiar to me.

Though the city itself as a built environment is very, very different.

[isaidso]

^^ Demographically, I agree.

Originally Posted by rousseau

I wouldn't say "closely mimics," as there are clearly stark differences between Toronto and Melbourne, but the streetcar/tram tracks do provide a similar sort of vibe.

Agree although in my defence I did say 'most closely mimics' rather than 'closely mimics'.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by megadude

Basically, CHI people made it feel more like TO than anywhere in NY.

Let's agree to disagree, I guess. Though I just find it utterly bizarre that you would say that people in Chicago are anything like the people in Toronto, because it's almost an objective truth that Chicagoans are nothing like people in Toronto (or Canada, for that matter--not that New Yorkers are like people in Toronto either). The vibe, the ethos, the background, the social history, you name it, they're just completely different.

I'm speaking in broad generalities, while you seem to be talking about anecdotal experiences. We're not on the same wavelength.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Hali87

It's a certain kind of hip. There's stuff like the Fringe Festival and the local theatre/music/art scenes are fairly strong within a Canadian context but this isn't really apparent unless you live there or know enough people who do. It's different than in Halifax (and Van/Vic from what I gather) where hipsterism basically is the dominant culture these days.

I guess I was thinking more generally about how conventionally or conservatively people seem to live.

For example I tend to see that gay couples I know in Alberta (Calgary or Edmonton) tend to follow the more standard white picket fence lifestyle while in Portland you run into the vegan wiccan poly nudist collectives (not necessarily superior).

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Failing that, check out any street in Chicago in Google Street View. It won't look like Toronto.

Here, I'll help you: <random Google Street view pin drop> https://www.google.ca/maps/@41.84627...7i16384!8i8192

I've been on this for some time, but... that looks like Montreal. That's Parc Ex or Villeray or somewhere off Monkland. Chicago low key looks a lot more like Montreal than it does Toronto.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

I've been on this for some time, but... that looks like Montreal. That's Parc Ex or Villeray or somewhere off Monkland. Chicago low key looks a lot more like Montreal than it does Toronto.

I don't agree, this looks way more like Toronto than it looks like Montreal to me. Detached houses scream "Toronto" to me. We don't have as many detached houses in central Montreal - a cultural thing I believe, it's just not important to most people here, while my colleagues from Toronto, Ottawa and elsewhere in English-speaking parts of Canada are very proud to mention that have detached houses. We just don't understand why being separated by 1m from your neighbour would be so important, I guess.

The Chicago street you showed reminds me more of places like Leslieville, Trinity Bellwoods, Parkdale, etc much more than the Montreal neigbhourhoods you mentioned.

But it's all very subjective

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by begratto

I don't agree, this looks way more like Toronto than it looks like Montreal to me. Detached houses scream "Toronto" to me. We don't have as many detached houses in central Montreal - a cultural thing I believe, it's just not important to most people here, while my colleagues from Toronto, Ottawa and elsewhere in English-speaking parts of Canada are very proud to mention that have detached houses. We just don't understand why being separated by 1m from your neighbour would be so important, I guess.

The Chicago street you showed reminds me more of places like Leslieville, Trinity Bellwoods, Parkdale, etc than the Montreal neigbhourhoods you mentioned.

But it's all very subjective

I have to agree with you. The picture looks nothing like Villeray of NDG, no Mtl vibes at all.

[MacLac]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Two questions:

1. What's "YEG"?
2. Since Toronto is obviously the hipster capital of Canada, I assume you're using "YEG" to refer to Toronto, but I've never heard that before. What does it mean?

1.) YEG - airport code for Edmonton Int'l.
2.) It is very common - I thought - that EDM WAS the Hipster Capital of Canada...is this not common knowledge? It's all good if it isn't - I, for one try to run them over with my Lifted F350 as often as possible. But they keep popping up on every street corner, new "GastroPubs," Farmers Markets etc. With their curled-greased-moustaches, bow ties, skinny jeans, tight plaid shirts w/suspenders and greasey-combed over-lids, "new school tattoos." The ONLY thing I have in common with them is a shit ton of tatts, but none of mine are "new school" - ie, aliens/fish with giant eyeballs...etc.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by MacLac

But they keep popping up on every street corner, new "GastroPubs," Farmers Markets etc. With their curled-greased-moustaches, bow ties, skinny jeans, tight plaid shirts w/suspenders and greasey-combed over-lids, "new school tattoos."

Did I just travel back in time to 2007?

[Hardhatdan]

Originally Posted by MacLac

1.) YEG - airport code for Edmonton Int'l.
2.) It is very common - I thought - that EDM WAS the Hipster Capital of Canada...is this not common knowledge? It's all good if it isn't - I, for one try to run them over with my Lifted F350 as often as possible. But they keep popping up on every street corner, new "GastroPubs," Farmers Markets etc. With their curled-greased-moustaches, bow ties, skinny jeans, tight plaid shirts w/suspenders and greasey-combed over-lids, "new school tattoos." The ONLY thing I have in common with them is a shit ton of tatts, but none of mine are "new school" - ie, aliens/fish with giant eyeballs...etc.

You're spare parts bud.

[MacLac]

Originally Posted by Hardhatdan

You're spare parts bud.

You tolerate them all you want...I can't - thank Gawd I work in the bush and only get home to the city a few days/month. You probably work beside them day in/out. I don't - I work alongside the complete opposite.....rig workers, pipeliners....guys like me who would do the same thing.....

[Nouvellecosse]

What exactly is so terrible about "hipsters"? I can't say I have much affinity for the aesthetic, but I also can't see how they're anything particularly harmful. People who are angry, hateful and filled with contempt for anyone different from themselves seem like a much bigger threat to society.

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

What exactly is so terrible about "hipsters"? I can't say I have much affinity for the aesthetic, but I also can't see how they're anything particularly harmful. People who are angry, hateful and filled with contempt for anyone different from themselves seem like a much bigger threat to society.

This.