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  #261  
Old Posted May 11, 2009, 1:34 PM
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Duke-Of-Waterloo Duke-Of-Waterloo is offline
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Originally Posted by Cambridgite View Post
Awesome news.

Does anyone know how much a one-way ticket would cost to Union Station from here? Would it be significantly cheaper than Greyhound?
It would definitely be cheaper than Greyhound!

To travel from Union Station to the University of Guelph, it costs $11.45, so my guess to travel from Cambridge including your transfer in Milton or Mississauga it would be maybe around $15.
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  #262  
Old Posted May 11, 2009, 5:46 PM
LNahid2000 LNahid2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by Duke-Of-Waterloo View Post
It would definitely be cheaper than Greyhound!

To travel from Union Station to the University of Guelph, it costs $11.45, so my guess to travel from Cambridge including your transfer in Milton or Mississauga it would be maybe around $15.
Greyhound to/from Kitchener/Cambridge is $14.81 one way for students, and can be as cheap as $25 round trip if you purchase tickets a few days in advance. So I don't think it would be much cheaper, for students at least.
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  #263  
Old Posted May 11, 2009, 8:47 PM
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But it is if you are a frequent commuter and buy and unlimited pass each month. I know a couple (2) people who commute to Queen's Park from Waterloo with Greyhound. GO would be a much cheaper option...
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  #264  
Old Posted May 12, 2009, 12:01 AM
LNahid2000 LNahid2000 is offline
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Greyhound has commuter passes as well. A commuter pass on Greyhound is $364/month to Kitchener while commuter passes to Guelph are currently $369/month on GO. So I still can't see it being too much cheaper.
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  #265  
Old Posted May 12, 2009, 12:03 AM
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Barrie to Union is $11.20 one way or $361 a month
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  #266  
Old Posted May 19, 2009, 11:15 PM
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Ready, set, GO!
GTA Bus Transit service set to extend routes to KW this fall, train service could follow



By Jacqueline McKoy, IMPRINT, Friday, May 15, 2009

Commuters between the Region of Waterloo and Toronto will soon have another way to travel since the announcement was made Friday, May 9, that the GO Transit bus service will be extended to the KW region this fall. A new bus service will connect Kitchener/Waterloo with current stops along GO Transit’s existing stations along the Milton line and Mississauga’s City Centre Transit Terminal at Square One.

Initial funding announced last Friday includes $2.5 million for the construction of four “park ‘n’ ride” bus stops along the Highway 401/8 corridor to accommodate the new bus service. The location of the first stop will be in Milton at the junction of Highways 401 and 25; the locations of the remaining three stops are to be determined.

Notably absent from Friday’s announcement is the location of stops in the City of Waterloo, particularly those near UW itself. However, Vanessa Thomas, GO Transit’s media relations and issues specialist, said that “other [dropoff] locations [...] along the service to major educational and business locations are to be determined” later this summer.


Railway future still uncertain
Ideally, the GO Bus service will build ridership such that a rail connection to Toronto will have significant demand. Said Thomas, “Typically, GO Bus service helps to build ridership in corridors that could merit future GO rail service. For commuter areas generally, as passenger demand increases on our buses, and track capacity and funding allow, there is the potential that trains could replace those buses.”

Inquiry into GO Transit’s expansion into the Waterloo region began in 2000, and it is a major goal of GO 2020, GO Transit’s 15-year strategic plan. A series of Public Information Centres (PICs) were held during February in Kitchener, Cambridge and Georgetown to consult with the public about the environmental impact of expanding service into the region, as well as to assess ridership interest.

The final results of the environmental assessment study are to be released at the end of May, and available for public review for 45 days thereafter. Based on additional public consultation, available funding, and the study itself, the provincial government is expected to make a final decision on expanding rail service later this year.

The four preferred rail stations presented to the public will be located, from east to west, in Acton near the Old Hide House, Guelph, Breslau, and at downtown Kitchener’s VIA Rail station. These stations will connect to GO’s existing Georgetown line with stops throughout Milton, Brampton, and Toronto.

However, optimal GO Train service in the future is largely based on the government of Ontario’s ability to pay access fees to ensure all-day rail service. Presently, rail lines used by GO Transit are owned by the provincial government, Canadian Pacific, and CN Rail. The provincial government pays access fees for use of the portions of the line they do not own, and runs bus service along rail corridors when rail routes are being used by other parties. Currently, rail service along the Georgetown line only runs during the weekday rush hour periods, but a goal of GO 2020, along with the expansion to KW, is to provide all-day, two-way rail service along the line rather than resorting to slower bus routes.


Benefit to students to be proved
GO Transit service might be of greatest benefit to members of the UW community travelling to the most westerly portions of the Greater Toronto Area.

Currently, the Fed Bus service is the only mass transportation option that offers a direct route between KW and Mississauga, Brampton, or Etobicoke; unlike the proposed GO service, however, it only operates on weekends. Except for stops in Guelph, both Greyhound and VIA Rail limit passengers to drop-off points in Guelph and at Toronto’s Union Station, both of which lead to circuitous transit connections to the Peel Region and Hamilton area.

An important aspect of the usability of GO Transit service in KW is its connection with Grand River Transit routes. According to Region of Waterloo Manager of Transit Development John Cicuttin, a “meeting next Friday [GRT] is going to start looking at routing and integration,” in hopes that GRT will be able to provide connecting service between GO stops and existing KW transit hubs as soon as GO service is introduced.

Thomas says that the fare structure is still to be determined, but that GO Transit fares are typically based on distance of travel. As a reference point, a single bus fare from Union Station to the University of Guelph, GO Transit’s western terminus at present, is $11.45. GO Transit provides a 10 per cent discount on 10 single-ride tickets, as well as an additional 10 per cent discount for student fares to students from eligible schools.

There is no current information on whether GO Transit is participating with UW, WLU, or Conestoga College to provide discounts to their students. As of press time, there was no information from either GO Transit or UW administration indicating any plans to participate in a student discount program.

However, a 20 per cent discount could make GO’s service provide a per-ride savings over VIA’s student 6PAK ticket ($14.00/ride), Greyhound’s 10-ride ticket ($13.50/ride) or potentially even the current bargain of a round-trip Fed Bus purchased with a Feds Card ($9.50/ride).

Despite this potential, Thomas said that it is important to note that “GO Transit’s services are meant to complement, rather than compete with” Greyhound, VIA Rail, and Fed Bus offerings.


http://www.imprint.uwaterloo.ca/inde...ate=2009-05-15
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  #267  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2009, 5:05 PM
DHLawrence DHLawrence is offline
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Finally, Outhit says something we can agree with!

Quote:
Public transit to Toronto could improve a lot soon
June 27, 2009
Jeff Outhit

Public transit links to Toronto have long been feeble, but suddenly there's a lot going on.

GO Transit has already announced bus service to its train station in Milton, and to a transit hub at Mississauga City Centre. Launch is scheduled in October.

GO buses will collect passengers in Cambridge and Kitchener, along Highway 401. Collection sites are not yet announced.

As well, the provincial transit service is studying direct train service from Kitchener to Union Station in downtown Toronto, by 2011. If the province funds this, passengers would have two local stations, in downtown Kitchener and at a park-and-ride near Breslau.

Meanwhile, regional council is preparing a pitch for GO trains from Cambridge to Union Station, to complement GO trains from Kitchener.

A consultant has forecast that trains leaving Cambridge could attract 402 to 738 passengers in mornings, passing through Milton and taking 91 minutes to reach Union Station.

These trains would presumably replace Cambridge-based GO buses that are to launch this fall.

The study has considered trains to ferry Cambridge passengers to Guelph, where they would transfer to GO trains from Kitchener. But this option would add 22 minutes, slashing estimated ridership by half. So it's been ruled out.

There's still lots to consider. Local taxpayers may have to help pay for GO service, for example to provide stations. These costs are undetermined. But the activity around intercity transit is promising for 10,700 residents who travel to jobs in Peel, Toronto, Halton and York.

Long-term, GO Transit has pledged bus or train service to Kitchener, Waterloo and Cambridge.

Buses are being introduced as a first step to build ridership. There are no immediate plans for trains to Cambridge. But if passenger demand is there, trains are better because they bypass congestion and limit time-adding transfers.

Passengers heading to downtown Toronto on GO buses starting this fall must transfer to trains at Milton. This complicates the trip.

Generally, every 10 minutes shaved from travel time boosts ridership 30 per cent, councillors have been told.

Local taxpayers are spending $95,000 to study GO trains to Cambridge. Next up, the consultant will review station sites, track upgrades, and prepare forecasts on cost, ridership and operations.

Local politicians may hear these results this fall. Ultimately, a business case would go to GO Transit for consideration. So far it looks like money well-spent.

Jeff Outhit can be reached at 519-895-5642 or jouthit@therecord.com
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  #268  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2009, 5:11 PM
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I think outhit may have been humbled by the rapid transit vote on Wednesday. The tone of this is at least a 150 degree turn and much more informative than what he usually writes.
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  #269  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2009, 9:49 PM
DHLawrence DHLawrence is offline
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Either that or the pro-LRT editorial staff of The Record had a little "talk" with him...
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  #270  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 2:33 PM
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Quote:
GO trains will be slow trains

August 15, 2009
By Jeff Outhit, Record staff

Some frustrated commuters will stop driving if there's a better way to get to Toronto than Highway 401.

But it's not clear that a proposal to bring GO trains here will provide a better way. Because the trains will be slower than slow.

GO Transit has proposed intercity rail service starting in 2011, if the province funds the plan.

A prototype schedule shows it would take two hours for most daily GO trains to reach Toronto's Union Station from downtown Kitchener.

An express train would get to Union Station in one hour, 49 minutes.

Union Station is 101 kilometres away by rail. So the average trip speed for three daily GO trains is 50 km/h. This includes 10 stops. One express train would average 56 km/h. It would stop just six times.


Afternoon returns would be a touch faster. The quickest trains from Toronto would reach downtown Kitchener in one hour, 48 minutes. The slowest would take one hour, 55 minutes.

This pace will not make many highway motorists giddy with anticipation.

Some drivers may not care how long it takes. They may see trains as safer and less stressful. Commuters between Kitchener and Guelph may not care. The two cities would be 28 minutes apart by train.

But for commuters heading towards greater Toronto, GO trains would be slower than driving in all but the worst traffic. They would be slower than Via Rail trains. They would be slower than scheduled Greyhound buses.They would be pretty much the slowest way you could get to Toronto.

All the stops slow things down. Between stops, GO trains are permitted to reach speeds of 113 km/h. But too often they do not, because the private tracks are meant for slower freight trains and are not in shape to speed commuters.

For example, trains must slow to 16 km/h east of Acton, where a junction switch is misaligned. A bottleneck slows trains over the Credit River. A curve through Acton limits speeds to 70 km/h. Freight and passengers must share single tracks through Guelph and Kitchener. This causes delays.

GO proposes only preliminary rail improvements, in extending commuter service here for $153 million. Major rail upgrades costing $318 million, to further eliminate delays and bottlenecks, would be put off until later.

This might not fly. Because trying to lure drivers from their cars by offering them really slow trains is not how to sell public transit as the better way.

Jeff Outhit can be reached at 519-895-5642 or jouthit@therecord.com
Jeff's at it again. But I've got to agree, that is pretty slow. 2 hours to Toronto! That's rough.

I'm a little surprised they're slower than both VIA and Greyhound. The additional stops slow them down compared to VIA but the speed that they are going at isn't helping things. 16 km/h....terrible!

The commute between KW and Guelph should be attractive to a lot of people.
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  #271  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 2:43 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
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The slower the better as far as I am concerned - commuting from KW to Toronto on a daily basis is not something to be encouraged. This is not a bedroom community. I would rather see employers encouraged to move this way from the GTA sprawl. Improved VIA service will be good, but I say no to GO. And I realize I am alone in this forum on this.
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  #272  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 4:01 PM
zanate zanate is offline
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
The slower the better as far as I am concerned - commuting from KW to Toronto on a daily basis is not something to be encouraged. This is not a bedroom community. I would rather see employers encouraged to move this way from the GTA sprawl. Improved VIA service will be good, but I say no to GO. And I realize I am alone in this forum on this.
Do you honestly believe that (to pick a number) 75-minute trains to Toronto would turn us into a bedroom community the likes of Milton?

We're already large enough and self-sufficient. Places like Milton, Georgetown, etc. were small burgs without a strong enough identity. The small percentage of potential commuters that might sleep in KW and work in TO won't affect the character of this town.
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  #273  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 4:15 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
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I just don't think 100 kilometer commutes should be encouraged or facilitated. That said, I am just venting because, as they say, resistance is futile.
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  #274  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
The slower the better as far as I am concerned - commuting from KW to Toronto on a daily basis is not something to be encouraged. This is not a bedroom community. I would rather see employers encouraged to move this way from the GTA sprawl. Improved VIA service will be good, but I say no to GO. And I realize I am alone in this forum on this.
Ya I've got to disagree with you. I think the purpose of go is not to promote KW as a bedroom community (which it currently is not) but to send a message to those already commuting (which there are a number of) that there are other options to driving. They are trying to get cars off the road. GO is just another way of doing so.

Sure by installing GO transit there will be some who may move here with the intention of commuting to Toronto but you won't see a large wave of people doing that.
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  #275  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 7:34 PM
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Interesting article by Outhit from back in 2000 about people that commute from KW to Toronto. Back in 2000 there were 6000+ commuters.

Quote:
Perils of the long-haul commute

By Jeff Outhit
The Kitchener-Waterloo Record

KITCHENER - Don Bourgeois missed being roadkill by a split second and a few metres of asphalt.

As the transport jackknifed in front of him, he cranked the wheel and slid his car around it.

Behind him, the sliding truck sprawled across all lanes, shutting down Highway 401.

''Had I been a millisecond later, he would have fishtailed into me,'' Bourgeois recalls. ``That would have just wiped me out. I wouldn't have survived that.''

Bourgeois is a road warrior from Waterloo Region.

He's one of almost 8,000 commuters who travel 200 kilometres a day or more between the region and Greater Toronto.

Why do they do it?

Cheaper housing. The lure of the small town. The draw of the big city. The love of a cherished job.

Commuters cite many reasons to support their daily grind, but they agree on one thing.

Life on the road takes its toll.

Three doors slam, followed by the click, click, click of seatbelts snapping into place.

Sometimes it sounds to Sharon Clarke like she's settling into a space shuttle.

Clarke, her daughter Michelle, and Kim Warren are carpool veterans. They live in Waterloo Region but work for Hewlett-Packard in Mississauga, an hour away.

Every day they meet at 6:30 a.m. at a Highway 401 parking lot in Cambridge. With luck, they're back in Cambridge by 5:30 p.m.

On the road, they chat about girl stuff. They share costs by rotating vehicles. But the lifestyle is starting to grate on Sharon Clarke.

``Personally, I hate commuting. You know that, you guys,'' she says.

Clarke gets up by 5 a.m. and is often not home until 6 p.m., with no energy left for errands.

She has to get to bed by 9 p.m. for a full night's sleep.

``I'm tired. I find it's more stressful now than when I started.''

Clarke used to live in Toronto, but moved to Kitchener in 1991 to settle with her husband-to-be. She's thought about looking for work closer to home, but she loves her job of 14 years.

Co-worker Kim Warren moved to Cambridge two years ago from Mississauga. She figures her family has saved $40,000 on their house.

Warren enjoys the small-city lifestyle. The weekends are easier, the pace slower. The commute is still worth it.

``Your down time is just much more pleasant,'' Warren says. ``I don't think it's something you'd want to do your entire life.''

Census data reveal that Toronto and Peel Region lure 6,505 commuters from Waterloo Region.

Toronto and Peel send 1,485 commuters to Waterloo Region.

Glen Welch is among them.

Welch drives 250 kilometres a day from his home in Toronto's Beaches neighbourhood to his job as a professional fundraiser in Waterloo.

It puts him in his car for three hours a day, fiddling with his radio and dreading bottlenecks.

``Not a day goes by when you don't have to dig your brakes pretty hard,'' he says.

As a bachelor, Welch has no one to share the pain of his long days.

``I find by the end of the week, come Friday afternoon, you're pretty wiped,'' he says.

Why does he do it?

In part because it's good work and it's not forever.

Normally, Welch works in downtown Toronto. He expects to return there by June next year.

One second, you're speeding along the highway. Suddenly, you're praying to stop in time.

``There are times when the traffic on the 401 will come almost instantly to a dead stop. It's unbelievable how quickly that can happen,'' says commuter Keith Allen.

Commuters say Highway 401 slowdowns are often inexplicable. There's no construction, no accidents, nothing to blame for the surprise.

All you can do is stay alert and keep your distance.

Bourgeois forgot these rules once and paid the price.

He came over the crest of a hill. He discovered a wall of stopped cars. He was distracted. ``I sneezed at the wrong time,'' he says.

He did not get to his brakes fast enough.

Nobody was injured in the slow-speed mishap. It caused only minor damage to the car in front.

But his aging Buick was a write-off with a badly crumpled hood.

Did this scare him off commuting, after his earlier near-miss with a fishtailing transport?

No.

Two days after his old car was demolished, Bourgeois won a luxury Lexus in a fundraising draw.

He's still driving to his cherished Toronto job as an Ontario government lawyer.

Bourgeois chooses to live in Kitchener because it's his home town. He's got a better house than he could ever get in the bigger city.

He downplays highway frights.

``These are not daily events. They're not weekly events. They happen two or three times a year,'' he says.

David Barkley used to commute more than four hours a day, Stratford to Toronto and back.

``I probably never realized how tired I was till I stopped doing it,'' he says.

A lifestyle choice placed his young family in his home town. Career desires placed his banking job in downtown Toronto.

For six years, Barkley commuted more than 300 kilometres a day. He turned down an employer-paid relocation to Toronto.

People thought he was nuts.

Some days he did not see his kids. He slept maybe five hours a day. He was never on hand for family emergencies.

The commute ended when his marriage failed in 1994.

``Was that a factor? Probably, I suppose so, but I certainly don't think it was by any means the only one, or certainly the main one,'' he says.

Commuting allowed Barkley to pursue his career while keeping his family in a city they loved.

It gave him hours of contemplative time, and he says it made time with his wife more cherished.

``You don't take time for granted when you're commuting,'' he says.

When his marriage failed he moved to Toronto and started walking to work in 15 minutes.

``Suddenly you have four to five hours given back to you every day,'' he says. He filled it with music. He visited with friends. And he slept.

Commuting takes its toll on the wallet and the environment.

Driving between Waterloo Region and Toronto will cost you between $4,900 and $17,800 a year.

The lower estimate is for gas, parking and maintenance. The upper estimate includes financing, insurance and depreciation.

There are also the social costs of land-munching highways, the productive time lost to traffic congestion, and the health costs of pollution.

Every year, a car commuting to Toronto from Waterloo Region spews out 17 tonnes of global-warming carbon dioxide.

Driving is not the only way to get from here to there.

Via Rail offers a Kitchener-Toronto link for as little as $20 a day. But many commuters prefer to drive, or to link up with GO Transit at Milton.

``Taking the GO train is probably a preferable alternative. Even though it's a little bit longer time, it's certainly more relaxing,'' says Keith Allen.

Allen is a Waterloo Region business consultant who commutes to clients in downtown Toronto.

He likes living in Waterloo Region. His home costs less. And he's not convinced he'd save time commuting from a Toronto suburb.

Still, ``by the time the weekend rolls around you get kind of tired,'' he says.

Allen figures the province should consider a better rail link to Waterloo Region.

``It's kind of surprising to me that the GO train hasn't been extended further west,'' he says.

Don Bourgeois fears a better rail link would do more damage than good. What he doesn't want is to turn Waterloo Region into a Toronto suburb with a branch-plant economy.

``I think we'd lose something,'' he says. ``We don't want this area to be a commuter village.''
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archive...l/sprawl06.htm
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  #276  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 8:47 PM
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^ I've read that article before. It's an old one.

I agree with kwoldtimer that 100km commutes aren't a thing that should be encouraged. That said, this GO-train extension will become quite the white elephant in its present proposal. I could see it being useful if they had an express line with few stops or high-speed rail. If we had high speed rail, it would attract commuters here, but it wouldn't be a big deal anyways, since the commutes would be short. IMO, the LRT is a much bigger priority than this GO train extension and would actually be less of a white elephant, despite what many of the anti-LRT/pro-GO naysayers say.
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  #277  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 9:10 PM
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According to the GO report, most demand is between Kitchener and Guelph, and between Waterloo/Wellington and Halton/Peel. This isn't intended to be for commuters going all the way from Kitchener to downtown Toronto -- Jeff Outhit is attacking a straw man here.

It's clear to me that GO needs to start service before focusing on huge track improvements. I think they will have no trouble at all filling up seats on the four peak direction trains they would start with, and then that will fuel both increased service and the track improvements that entails.

People will be able to commute from downtown Kitchener to downtown Guelph in 28 minutes on a GO train in 2011. If there is enough demand, I believe GO will be quickly able to add in reverse-peak trains for the Guelph to Kitchener commute, and perhaps non-peak trains as well. Remember that GO is aiming for all-day hourly service by 2031.
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  #278  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 10:13 PM
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I see the GO link as more important for business travellers, leisure/family trips, and students than for daily commuters. Get to your 9:00 meeting at Commerce Court without worrying about traffic. Go to a concert or a game at the ACC and take the late train home. Profs living in TO that teach a class or two at UW can prepare for their class on the way to Kitchener. Students can get home without worrying about getting caught on the 401. Potentially there could be a connection to Pearson for travellers.
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  #279  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 10:18 PM
DHLawrence DHLawrence is offline
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The Pearson connection isn't likely any time soon; I believe that the contract for developing the Union-Pearson link excludes GO from operating trains to Pearson.
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  #280  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2009, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DHLawrence View Post
The Pearson connection isn't likely any time soon; I believe that the contract for developing the Union-Pearson link excludes GO from operating trains to Pearson.
We may have to wait til a high speed rail line to get a direct connection. However with the upcoming GO Bus at least we will get an alternative to private airport shuttle (GO bus Kitchener to MCC transfer to GO bus MCC to Pearson).. with the train I guess you could take the train to a nearby GO station then take local transit or GO Bus to Pearson.
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