Sports in Canadian culture

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Having collegiate sports as the stepping stone to pro sports is a part of the reason why the NCAA is so popular but I'm always surprised when people say it's a make or break factor in whether they will watch.

When I watch say a MAC football game or Ryerson basketball game it would be nice if they had future CFLers or NBAers on those squads but it doesn't weigh heavily on whether I will attend or follow it. Am I really that outside the norm on this issue?

I am the same. It's a nice bonus when it happens but it's not really on my mind that much when I am watching something like junior hockey.

[isaidso]

Good to know I'm not the only one but I suspect we're a rarity on that front.

[suburbanite]

I can enjoy amateur sports in the sense of it being an entertainment event. Going to a game for just the sport itself can be extremely enjoyable without the stress and emotional commitment that following a professional team entails. I watch a bunch of Owen Sound Attack games but have nowhere the in-depth knowledge of the roster as I do for the Leafs (or a bunch of other teams probably). It is cool when you see someone crack an NHL roster who you watched in a small local arena a few years ago.

The product on the ice/field/court is only half the enjoyment for me though. I need the continuity that professional sports provides to dive into the management aspect of the game. I think the sports analytics business is fascinating, and it isn't really fully fleshed out until development is finished and there are large enough sample sizes at the professional level to assess.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Good to know I'm not the only one but I suspect we're a rarity on that front.

IMO most people are just in it for the "show". Bright lights. Hollywood. Courtside celebrities. References to the sport in pop songs and movies. Etc.

I am not sure most are especially passionate about seeing the young up and coming professional stars of tomorrow.

If so, CHL rinks for example would be packed a lot more than they are.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

I can enjoy amateur sports in the sense of it being an entertainment event. Going to a game for just the sport itself can be extremely enjoyable without the stress and emotional commitment that following a professional team entails. I watch a bunch of Owen Sound Attack games but have nowhere the in-depth knowledge of the roster as I do for the Leafs (or a bunch of other teams probably). It is cool when you see someone crack an NHL roster who you watched in a small local arena a few years ago.

The product on the ice/field/court is only half the enjoyment for me though. I need the continuity that professional sports provides to dive into the management aspect of the game. I think the sports analytics business is fascinating, and it isn't really fully fleshed out until development is finished and there are large enough sample sizes at the professional level to assess.

I am very interested in the cultural and societal impacts of sports, and also to a degree the business of sports - not so much dollars and cents but the implantation of franchises and such.

Almost as much as the games themselves.

I've been paying attention to this since I was a kid in the early 80s and it's been particularly fascinating to watch for example the rise of the NFL into the uncontested (North) American sports juggernaut.

One thing about the NFL is that we as Canadians assume it's the crème de la crème and the ultimate "big time" but it's actually the proverbial big fish (actually a humongous fish) in a small(ish) pond. When you consider the U.S.'s size on a global scale and how little the NFL registers globally outside of the U.S., Canada and a few other small pockets.

[TimB09]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am the same. It's a nice bonus when it happens but it's not really on my mind that much when I am watching something like junior hockey.

That's why I love watching CIS hockey, specifically the U of A Golden Bears. Not only are they a successful school when it comes their men's and women's hockey teams, the hockey itself is a ton of fun to watch. And the competition in CIS West play seems to get better each year.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by TimB09

That's why I love watching CIS hockey, specifically the U of A Golden Bears. Not only are they a successful school when it comes their men's and women's hockey teams, the hockey itself is a ton of fun to watch. And the competition in CIS West play seems to get better each year.

U Sports hockey is extremely underrated. I admit I haven't done much to support the cause as I haven't attended a game since my U of A student days, but I remember being quite impressed whenever I went to see them play.

As has been mentioned many times though, the universities have no interest in selling the product, so it's left to individual teams to promote themselves which really only the football teams seem capable of to any degree, at least in the Canada West conference.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've been paying attention to this since I was a kid in the early 80s and it's been particularly fascinating to watch for example the rise of the NFL into the uncontested (North) American sports juggernaut.

One thing about the NFL is that we as Canadians assume it's the crème de la crème and the ultimate "big time" but it's actually the proverbial big fish (actually a humongous fish) in a small(ish) pond. When you consider the U.S.'s size on a global scale and how little the NFL registers globally outside of the U.S., Canada and a few other small pockets.

The problem with the NFL is that as a huge fish in a 'small' pond, it now has nowhere to go.

The NFL has tried Toronto and has 'international' games in London, but those are basically experiments. The Toronto one was none-too-successful and London is so far out there as to be in another world. The various other forays into international markets have been flops for the NFL.

How the NFL manages the next few decades will be interesting, especially since the easy growth part is over.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

The problem with the NFL is that as a huge fish in a 'small' pond, it now has nowhere to go.

The NFL has tried Toronto and has 'international' games in London, but those are basically experiments. The Toronto one was none-too-successful and London is so far out there as to be in another world. The various other forays into international markets have been flops for the NFL.

How the NFL manages the next few decades will be interesting, especially since the easy growth part is over.

I agree totally. Most American (and Canadian) NFL fans don't see that, nor do they care, really. But the NFL bigwigs certainly do. They're getting very close to being maxed out in the only market that so far has shown any significant level of interest in their product.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I agree totally. Most American (and Canadian) NFL fans don't see that, nor do they care, really. But the NFL bigwigs certainly do. They're getting very close to being maxed out in the only market that so far has shown any significant level of interest in their product.

I think one of the big worries for the NFL Oligarchs is if more cities act like San Diego. Heaven forbid that these billionaires have to spend their own money for stadium construction.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I think one of the big worries for the NFL Oligarchs is if more cities act like San Diego. Heaven forbid that these billionaires have to spend their own money for stadium construction.

The more teams there are, the less scarcity there is and the less the NFL has cities over a barrel. That has to be one of the major factors as to why the NFL hasn't expanded much in recent years.

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure of the right thread for this, but I believe this is where e-sports have been discussed.



Ottawa high school offering credited e-sports class

Starting Tuesday, the Centre professionel et technique Minto, a school at La Cité's Ottawa campus that prepares students for careers in the trades, will be teaching students how to best play video games.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...ebec-1.5249736

This wouldn't be so bad if it were teaching pratical skills. I could imagine fantasy football/etc would be a great way of teaching kids stats.

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Depending on the game being played, there is a ton of math and statistics being employed even at the amateur level. I'm continually amazed at the level of detail my 12 year old cousin will have delved too in whatever online game he is playing at the moment. "Weapon x has a 20% chance to do 15 damage over 3 seconds for an expected 1 damage per second which makes it worse than weapon y which has a 15% chance of doing 10 damage immediately for an expected 1.5 damage per second." That's pretty basic but still more than I was ever thinking about playing games as a kid. There are pretty advanced statistical models out there for some of the ultra-competitive games.

Anything that can be used to gain an advantage is, and it's a full-time job for some people to continually update rankings based on their models. Whether the skills are easily transferable or if it's a good idea to let kids dedicate school time to trying to become professional gamers which make up 0.1% of the top 0.1% is a different story.

Yeah its crazy how much of it can be applied to the real world as well. It's amazing how poorly the traditional education approaches practicality. It doesn't matter how theoretically good an idea is if you can apply it quickly. Competitive strategies internalize a thought process that most people cannot learn until they are well into their careers.

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

University hockey is a much harder sell than football or basketball due to the natural development progression. The NHL presents the fastest path to signing a contract of all four major leagues, and as such, 16 year old players are preparing for their draft while football players haven't even though about what university they're going to yet.

In my experience, the stereotypical CIS hockey player is a guy who's probably 2-3 years older than everyone else in his year having already taken his shot in the CHL. They realize they're probably never going pro and take the free ride at university to start a different career. Not that the quality of hockey can't be good, but there isn't that same excitement watching someone fizzle out at the end of their playing days compared to watching a star athlete begin their career. My school wasn't particularly big into football, but there were 3 guys in my year who went top 15 in the CFL draft and everyone knew them but definitely couldn't name anyone on the hockey team.

Honestly I was completely ignornant on the CHL before moving to London.

It's not even on the Radar on Toronto, yet it is incredibly impressive. In my mind it is hands down the best Canadian league. Light years ahead of the CFL, and easily a rival to the NHL(in terms of representing Canadian rivalries).

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by wave46

The problem with the NFL is that as a huge fish in a 'small' pond, it now has nowhere to go.

The NFL has tried Toronto and has 'international' games in London, but those are basically experiments. The Toronto one was none-too-successful and London is so far out there as to be in another world. The various other forays into international markets have been flops for the NFL.

How the NFL manages the next few decades will be interesting, especially since the easy growth part is over.

Concussions are gonna be far too big of an issue to keep the sport above ground. I can't imagine people who are educated on the issue to allow their kids to play the sport. I'd rather my kids play with hard drugs than get their head beat in game after game.

Hockey has its issues as well but you could imagine the rules getting tighter and tighter over time.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by LakeLocker

Concussions are gonna be far too big of an issue to keep the sport above ground. I can't imagine people who are educated on the issue to allow their kids to play the sport. I'd rather my kids play with hard drugs than get their head beat in game after game.

The game will need to change further to reduce these issues, and the career of an average football player will get shorter. It'll be a tough decision for those who can't make an NFL roster, because they'll need to decide how much longer they can sacrifice their body to try and make the cut in order to get paid decent bank.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Berklon

The game will need to change further to reduce these issues, and the career of an average football player will get shorter. It'll be a tough decision for those who can't make an NFL roster, because they'll need to decide how much longer they can sacrifice their body to try and make the cut in order to get paid decent bank.

With hockey you can change things... the game has changed a fair bit in the last 10-15 years. But with football I'm not sure you can when tackling is such a fundamental part of the game. Yes you can crack down on the blatant head shots and what not, but that's still just the tip of the iceberg.

I love football but I would be very, very reluctant to let my kids play. Not when there are so many other sports out there.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by esquire

With hockey you can change things... the game has changed a fair bit in the last 10-15 years. But with football I'm not sure you can when tackling is such a fundamental part of the game. Yes you can crack down on the blatant head shots and what not, but that's still just the tip of the iceberg.

I love football but I would be very, very reluctant to let my kids play. Not when there are so many other sports out there.

Yea, the changes will probably only be subtle and not make a huge difference. It'll come down to the players and if they think it's worth the risk. I'm sure there'll be larger insure policies in place for each player down the road as well.

I know I'd be willing to sacrifice my body for a few years at the minimum contract of 480k - especially with the chance of making more.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

With hockey you can change things... the game has changed a fair bit in the last 10-15 years. But with football I'm not sure you can when tackling is such a fundamental part of the game. Yes you can crack down on the blatant head shots and what not, but that's still just the tip of the iceberg.

I love football but I would be very, very reluctant to let my kids play. Not when there are so many other sports out there.

Hockey at the grassroots level is pricing itself out everyone except the upper middle class.

[LakeLocker]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Yea, the changes will probably only be subtle and not make a huge difference. It'll come down to the players and if they think it's worth the risk. I'm sure there'll be larger insure policies in place for each player down the road as well.

I know I'd be willing to sacrifice my body for a few years at the minimum contract of 480k - especially with the chance of making more.

But it isn't your body its your mind. Having bad knees is one thing if you have you education to fall back on, but with concussions you aren't just physically useless you have destroyed your earning potential for life.

It isn't just something that happens from one large hit to the hit. It's the nature of hard contact.

You have to expose your kid to years of head tramua before you're even aware of your kid having talent.

It'll eventually destroy football as a sport.

Football relies on being a spectacle if you have to tone down the extreme athletics it isn't football.