PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[MyDadBuiltThat]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

The Plymouth Meeting Mall was once THE place to be. My mom took me there every Friday night in the 70's and it was wall to wall people. It's apex was the mid 70.s

Then Lit Brothers closed in 1977 and that end of the mall never really recovered. It sat empty for a while then Hess's from Allentown took over that spot. When they went out of business than it became the current Boscov's.

Also in 1977, the Montgomery Mall opened...taking business away. The Court at King of Prussia opened in 1980 and that became THE place to go. Then Willow Grove Park opened in 1982 and it just took too much business away. So what that mall basically did to Main Street shopping in Norristown it had done to them. Friday Nights with my mom at Plymouth Meeting sometimes turned in Montgomery Mall then we just really wound up shopping more at The Court.

Plymouth Meeting has been limping along for years. Ikea opening there in 1985 saved it from a faster decline but it will never be 1975 in there again when people traveled there for miles and packed it. Friday nights there was quite the social event.

Plymouth Meeting Mall declined in part because it was owned outright - no debt - so the mall owner used it as collateral for multiple loans to modernize other area malls they owned. They didn't put any effort into modernizing for decades and it really declined while all the other local malls where improved.
The stupid parking lot fight with IKEA that convinced them to move didn't help either as it had, as you said, brought in a lot of shoppers from all over the area.

[iheartphilly]

^
Plymouth Meeting Mall is stuck in the 1990 time warp. The design, layout, and feel is short of spectacular. Also, the mix of stores there you can shop it all online. No other real attractions to want to go there unless you like to walk the mall for exercise lol.

[Urbanthusiat]

Another random economic indicator I like to look at each year - the UHaul Index has Pennsylvania coming in at 24/50 for growth states in 2022. That's pretty good for PA. In the last six years it has ranked 48th in 2017, 44th in 2018, 46th in 2019, 41st in 2020, 48th in 2021, and now 24th in 2022. So a meaningful difference in the number of incoming UHauls last year for PA. I keep seeing good signs in the data for PA and Philly everywhere I look.

[UrbanRevival]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Another random economic indicator I like to look at each year - the UHaul Index has Pennsylvania coming in at 24/50 for growth states in 2022. That's pretty good for PA. In the last six years it has ranked 48th in 2017, 44th in 2018, 46th in 2019, 41st in 2020, 48th in 2021, and now 24th in 2022. So a meaningful difference in the number of incoming UHauls last year for PA. I keep seeing good signs in the data for PA and Philly everywhere I look.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Pennsylvanians tend to very much take the state for granted as to how much it offers in terms of urban amenities, very reasonable COL (especially for a Northeastern state), decent wages, underrated natural environment/aesthetically pleasing topography, lush vegetation, great location on the Eastern Seaboard, superlative historical character, and (at least, on balance) very politically moderate, etc. The list goes on.

Especially with affordable housing becoming all but impossible to find in so many areas (now including a lot of formerly-cheap Sun Belt metros), it really shouldn't come as a shock that PA may be really re-discovered, in a sense.

It's long overdue, IMHO.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Another random economic indicator I like to look at each year - the UHaul Index has Pennsylvania coming in at 24/50 for growth states in 2022. That's pretty good for PA. In the last six years it has ranked 48th in 2017, 44th in 2018, 46th in 2019, 41st in 2020, 48th in 2021, and now 24th in 2022. So a meaningful difference in the number of incoming UHauls last year for PA. I keep seeing good signs in the data for PA and Philly everywhere I look.

The initial Covid impact hurt most states & cities, but coming out of Covid, PA will certainly benefit from those relocating from higher COL locales like New York, DC, Boston, and California.

Good stuff.

[summersm343]

More than 60 new restaurants are set to open in the Philadelphia area in 2023

https://www.inquirer.com/food/restau...-20230104.html

[summersm343]

Landmark Developers preparing updated proposal for hotel project at New Hope restaurant site

A New Jersey real estate developer hopes to present its latest site plan for the Landing restaurant to the New Hope Borough Council in early 2023.

Landmark Developers is proposing the construction of a 44-room hotel, restaurant, pool and artist-in-residence quarters at the current site of the Landing, a popular waterfront restaurant and bar, and the adjacent Fred's Breakfast Club, a members-only dining spot. Both establishments are currently closed.

Landmark — which also owns the Logan Inn, the Mansion Inn and the Hotel Du Village, all in the Bucks County enclave — acquired the Landing and Fred's from owners Chris and Denise Bollenbacher in early 2021. The Landing, located at 22 N. Main St., had been a fixture in the community for almost 50 years.

Some were worried about the height of the tallest building on the property. While plans show that the tallest structure currently on the properties is around 28 feet tall, Landmark is proposing a 40-foot-tall development from the ground floor to the roof with extra architectural details on top that would put the total height at closer to 50 feet.

Other councilmembers were apprehensive about development further complicating the traffic patterns on the town's already busy Main Street. Some also expressed their fear that the project would interfere in the borough's efforts to maintain its small-town charm.

Cretella and his team are updating the site plans based on those concerns. Although a date for when they will present to the borough council has not been set, Landmark is not on the agenda for any of the council's January meetings, according to the borough. If the amended plan is eventually approved, Landmark will move forward with seeking zoning approval for the project.

Article behind paywall here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...evelopers.html

[summersm343]

Wilmington’s Avenue North development aims to 'create an alternative to the city'

Construction on a Parisian-inspired development that will feature luxury apartments, high-end restaurants, retail and office buildings is underway in North Wilmington at the former site of AstraZeneca's U.S. headquarters. Drawing on the glass exterior of the Louvre Museum and Paris' streets, a Delaware developer hopes to create a community that doesn't exist anywhere else in the state.

Known as Avenue North, the project from Delle Donne & Associates looks to bring the best amenities, such as dining establishments and a grocery store, to a single 79-acre campus. More than that, Delle Donne & Associates' Vice President of Development Patrick Honeycutt wants it in an architecturally pleasing style.

The overall concept will be reminiscent of projects in the region like Exton's Eagleview Town Center and the King of Prussia Town Center, both developed by different companies, but Honeycutt anticipates Avenue North's architecture will set a new bar.

Delle Donne's mixed-use project is located on the northwest corner of Route 202, a major thoroughfare in Wilmington that connects to I-95, and Powder Mill Road.

Delle Donne's goal at Avenue North is to create an activity hub. Plans call for 12 buildings, 360 apartments, four streets and 10.5 acres of green space.

“What we’re trying to do is create an alternative to the city,” Honeycutt said. “It’s a suburban approach through a mixed-use development without the hustle and bustle of a city.”

Delle Donne recently began construction on a 100,000-square-foot, 12-story office building as part of its master plan. In keeping with its Parisian inspiration, the glass exterior of the building is designed to emulate the Louvre.

The office building is scheduled to be completed in spring 2024.

No leases have been signed yet, but Honeycutt is hopeful future tenants will include law firms and wealth management companies. Delle Donne & Associates also plans to move its headquarters from Newark to the new building. JLL is handling leasing.

Being incorporated into the master plan are three existing buildings that were included as part of the 2017 sale. In addition to AstraZeneca, health care system ChristianaCare leases 400,000 square feet for its administrative offices, and water treatment company Solenis leases 100,000 square feet for its North American headquarters.

Two new retail tenants already onsite are local cafe concept Brew Haha! and BlkOps, a fitness center. The site could also attract multiple high-end restaurants that have presences in Lower Delaware and an organic grocer, Honeycutt said.

“We’re trying to create a very pedestrian-friendly street or avenue we plan to close down to vehicular traffic,” Honeycutt said of the overall plan, noting it could also host festivals or "things you’d find in a large city.”

Future phases could include up to 1.8 million square feet of development, though the exact configuration between retail, apartments and a hotel hasn't been solidified. No matter how the space is split up, it's meant to be well-connected and walkable.

Article behind paywall here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...velopment.html

[SouthCentralPA]

Originally Posted by UrbanRevival

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Pennsylvanians tend to very much take the state for granted as to how much it offers in terms of urban amenities, very reasonable COL (especially for a Northeastern state), decent wages, underrated natural environment/aesthetically pleasing topography, lush vegetation, great location on the Eastern Seaboard, superlative historical character, and (at least, on balance) very politically moderate, etc. The list goes on.

Especially with affordable housing becoming all but impossible to find in so many areas (now including a lot of formerly-cheap Sun Belt metros), it really shouldn't come as a shock that PA may be really re-discovered, in a sense.

It's long overdue, IMHO.

Agree with everything you said.

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Wilmington’s Avenue North development aims to 'create an alternative to the city'

Article behind paywall here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...velopment.html

That alternative city in Wilmington has a lot of space for parking lol
How is any different than other cities with massive parking? It's just a suburban office park with a coffee shop and barely any transit connections. I hope there would be more infill in the coming future then just a parking lot with a couple of buildings. Plus its disconnected from everything else.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

That alternative city in Wilmington has a lot of space for parking lol
How is any different than other cities with massive parking? It's just a suburban office park with a coffee shop and barely any transit connections. I hope there would be more infill in the coming future then just a parking lot with a couple of buildings. Plus its disconnected from everything else.

The “new urban” is obsessed with recreating cities, instead of doing what already works which is the “grid system”

They like to do curvy streets with wide buildings with no street interaction & tons of parking spaces. Everything a city is not. Oh yea & they like to throw a bunch of greenery in the renders to make you oo & ahh.

It boggles my mind that they keep trying to recreate the wheel instead of just using the current one.


The same is true for the Riverfront in Wilmington, its a beautiful area (the riverwalk) as well as the boom it caused for Wilmington, however the curvy road, wide building 1 Million parking spots is not a city. Its an escape for suburban people to enjoy in “the city” so they will come to cities and spend money without white flighting again.

In the Wilmington Riverfront area. There is approximately 1 block of shops & businesses on the main strip.

1BLOCK in the whole 100+ acre area.

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

The “new urban” is obsessed with recreating cities, instead of doing what already works which is the “grid system”

They like to do curvy streets with wide buildings with no street interaction & tons of parking spaces. Everything a city is not. Oh yea & they like to throw a bunch of greenery in the renders to make you oo & ahh.

It boggles my mind that they keep trying to recreate the wheel instead of just using the current one.


The same is true for the Riverfront in Wilmington, its a beautiful area (the riverwalk) as well as the boom it caused for Wilmington, however the curvy road, wide building 1 Million parking spots is not a city. Its an escape for suburban people to enjoy in “the city” so they will come to cities and spend money without white flighting again.

In the Wilmington Riverfront area. There is approximately 1 block of shops & businesses on the main strip.

1BLOCK in the whole 100+ acre area.

I think this is missing the forest to look at the trees. The parking lots serve as future building pads and the internal circulation is effectively a grid still. This can be subdivided many times over and provide a place for growth over the next several decades. And I have no reason to think that won't happen honestly. Over the next 50 years we could see additional infill here that really makes it a place. We'll see! "Rome wasn't built in a day" I think is the saying.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

I think this is missing the forest to look at the trees. The parking lots serve as future building pads and the internal circulation is effectively a grid still. This can be subdivided many times over and provide a place for growth over the next several decades. And I have no reason to think that won't happen honestly. Over the next 50 years we could see additional infill here that really makes it a place. We'll see! "Rome wasn't built in a day" I think is the saying.

I understand that part aswell, but they are not building infill that represents a city, they are building structures that serve no purpose other then to drive your vehicle all the way around it to park, and then enter.

There's no ground level retail like you would find on Walnut St or in fact all through out the city, it's just a big suburban building set in a "City like grid"

This is just how they are constructing new urbanism. Look at anything new that supposed to be in the city form, it all has the same look, and function everything opposite of what makes a city.

[DeltaNerd]

I agree with Tony here, Wilmington riverfront especially the Amtrak station is a sea of parking lots. The first thing you see walking our of the stations is a parking deck.

Urbanthusiat I would love for there to be more infill, why not around the Wilmington area first? There is a Amtrak/Septa station and plus many bus routes. The north avenue location makes more people drive instead of use alternative transit.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

That alternative city in Wilmington has a lot of space for parking lol
How is any different than other cities with massive parking? It's just a suburban office park with a coffee shop and barely any transit connections. I hope there would be more infill in the coming future then just a parking lot with a couple of buildings. Plus its disconnected from everything else.

Exactly-- I am confused about what is Parisian-inspired about this. This looks like Houston-inspired instead.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Exactly-- I am confused about what is Parisian-inspired about this. This looks like Houston-inspired instead.

Reminds me of the Woodlands north of Houston.
Great to see large development in Wilmington, but there is nothing Parisian about this plan, lol.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Reminds me of the Woodlands north of Houston.
Great to see large development in Wilmington, but there is nothing Parisian about this plan, lol.

Roundabout with a fountain = Parisian, I guess

All in all, it’s not a bad design. I think they’re just hyping it up more than it needs to be.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

I agree with Tony here, Wilmington riverfront especially the Amtrak station is a sea of parking lots. The first thing you see walking our of the stations is a parking deck.

Urbanthusiat I would love for there to be more infill, why not around the Wilmington area first? There is a Amtrak/Septa station and plus many bus routes. The north avenue location makes more people drive instead of use alternative transit.

I agree with everyone here, tbh.

On one hand, given that planning is centralized in Delaware at the county level, it functions more like a sunbelt state and in some ways is more dense than the PA counties across the line. It also has the potential to be MUCH more dense.

On the other hand, Delaware sorta functions as one big suburb and it's hard to push through the change in mindset (witness Newark). To me, this opens up for further densification in the future. NIMBYism is huge in Delaware...so this is sort of planning in advance how to get over it. If you plan a community as a city from the get go, hopefully as it densifies in the future there is less resistance because it was envisioned that way from the jump.

I think Delaware (the state) is growing fast enough to do both. I think the suburbanization of Delaware will sort of peter out past Middletown (which is sorta the line of demarcation now) and then start to go inwards again as people will continue to move. Further, as Philadelphia continues to fill in and get more expensive, Wilmington will become a more viable option for those who need to be in NYC or DC for work once or twice a week. All the restaurants and bars from The Bardea and Mulherins people is laying the groundwork now to make Wilmington a more palatable option for 18 hour a day living.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Roundabout with a fountain = Parisian, I guess

All in all, it’s not a bad design. I think they’re just hyping it up more than it needs to be.

Perhaps they'll hire someone to play the accordion over the lunch hour...

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Another random economic indicator I like to look at each year - the UHaul Index has Pennsylvania coming in at 24/50 for growth states in 2022. That's pretty good for PA. In the last six years it has ranked 48th in 2017, 44th in 2018, 46th in 2019, 41st in 2020, 48th in 2021, and now 24th in 2022. So a meaningful difference in the number of incoming UHauls last year for PA. I keep seeing good signs in the data for PA and Philly everywhere I look.

I know a few people who have left PA recently and are already whining about how they miss it here. Well...youse complained about living here and now you miss it. I just shake my head.

I think one thing that happens with people is they go someplace on vacation and think it would be wonderful place to live. Then they move there and their living experience is nothing like their vacation experience. Florida is number one on this scenario and my mom found it all out the hard way. They moved back in 2002 after 10 years and lots of complaint filled phone calls about how it sucked down there outside of the weather and their condo.