PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by JohnIII

"They expanded their city borders to include much of the surrounding suburban communities. If you laid Philadelphia’s borders atop Phoenix it would be much smaller, and vice versa. Phoenix city limits are huge. That list even shows you that Phoenix is five times bigger that Philadelphia land-area wise.

Is there an argument to perhaps drop the whole city-county idea and maybe expand Philadelphia’s limits to include parts of Delco and Montco? Maybe. But that’s not something I’m willing to touch on here."

I've been literally saying this same thing since Ed Rendell was mayor of Philadelphia; the very reason why Phoenix is a big city is also why Houston is; they both annexed their suburbs and if Philadelphia does we'll get less and less money and go the way of Boston.

If Philadelphia annexed suburbs like Houston did and Phoenix is now how big would Philadelphia have been? How many people would live in a larger city of Philadelphia if we did this the last 40 years?

On thing about Philadelphia I never liked is that we catch on to things way, way, way to slow and other cities seem to catch on much faster

I don't know if this is a true assessment so feel free to chime in but this my perception after 50 years of watching this city.

Wait why would we get less money if we annex areas that are affluent suburbs? Wouldn't that add to our taxbase and actually put the city up?

[Urbanthusiat]

Philadelphia annexing any of its suburbs is simply not going to happen, I don't really think it is even worth the time to contemplate. The GA would have to be involved since it would require revising county lines (it would be far simpler legally to annex areas within the same county, but we already did that in 1854). There is little incentive for local officials in areas outside of Philadelphia to cede their power. Not to mention the political pushback from the suburban public would be massive, I'm sure, unlike anything we've ever seen. With political and legal barriers so high, I just don't see it ever happening.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Wait why would we get less money if we annex areas that are affluent suburbs?

Philadelphia annexing its suburbs would cause a local civil war. the suburbs are largely populated with people who moved out of the city precisely to get away from the problems the city has. many who live in the burbs work in the city, and that is about as much as they want to deal with the city.

[TonyTone]

I can understand that but what issues would those suburbs deal with if they were annexed? Philly cops and taxes? No one is gonna move out to those suburbs in masses if they were annexed in fact some things might get better for those areas in terms of laws and etc.

One area that I don't understand isn't annexed by Philly is Upper Darby, it still feels like Philly when you cross over and it would probably be better off with Philly.

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I can understand that but what issues would those suburbs deal with if they were annexed? Philly cops and taxes?

lots of things. when I moved from Chestnut Hill to Montgomery County, less than 3 miles away, my car insurance went down dramatically, like by a factor of 3 because crime. also, wouldn't want Philly school district running the school district I live in now. and yes, taxes would be lower and you get more for them.

Originally Posted by TonyTone

No one is gonna move out to those suburbs in masses if they were annexed in fact some things might get better for those areas in terms of laws and etc.

wut?

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

lots of things. when I moved from Chestnut Hill to Montgomery County, less than 3 miles away, my car insurance went down dramatically, like by a factor of 3 because crime. also, wouldn't want Philly school district running the school district I live in now. and yes, taxes would be lower and you get more for them.

wut?

Sorry for the confusion when I meant laws might change I mean some suburb county policy's will change & the police will act less like dickheads in some cases I:e petty marijuana charges and speed traps.

Also I'm pretty sure insurance is based off of your zip so that won't change much especially in an area that already has low insurance because of like you already said less crime and less vehicle incidents.

Also I'm sure in the event of those areas being annexed the School district & funding issue would improve greatly because now the suburbs have to deal with the district and guess what people start to care when their kids have a choice of going to those schools.

The taxes yea there's probably no getting around that.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I can understand that but what issues would those suburbs deal with if they were annexed? Philly cops and taxes? No one is gonna move out to those suburbs in masses if they were annexed in fact some things might get better for those areas in terms of laws and etc.

One area that I don't understand isn't annexed by Philly is Upper Darby, it still feels like Philly when you cross over and it would probably be better off with Philly.

Poor performing schools and low school funding.

And for all of Upper Darby's perceived problems, it has the highest performing school district of all of the inner ring Delco suburbs (compared to SE Delco and William Penn).

The averages for UD look mediocre, but behind the surface, it's a huge school with a lot of programs and if you're a high achiever, you'll do fine coming out of Upper Darby. It definitely sends a lot of kids to a lot of top schools every single year. That doesn't happen in SE Delco and William Penn.

The reason so many immigrants move to UD is precisely because it is close to the city, the schools are decent, and it's affordable. If you blow up the school equation, it will destabilize the next ring of towns in Delaware County.

If anything, I think the poorer performing school districts in eastern Delco should be absorbed (slowly) into Upper Darby's School district.

[Raja]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Poor performing schools and low school funding.

And for all of Upper Darby's perceived problems, it has the highest performing school district of all of the inner ring Delco suburbs (compared to SE Delco and William Penn).

The averages for UD look mediocre, but behind the surface, it's a huge school with a lot of programs and if you're a high achiever, you'll do fine coming out of Upper Darby. It definitely sends a lot of kids to a lot of top schools every single year. That doesn't happen in SE Delco and William Penn.

The reason so many immigrants move to UD is precisely because it is close to the city, the schools are decent, and it's affordable. If you blow up the school equation, it will destabilize the next ring of towns in Delaware County.

If anything, I think the poorer performing school districts in eastern Delco should be absorbed (slowly) into Upper Darby's School district.

Can confirm. I met my wife while we were both freshmen at Penn. She went to Upper Darby High School and now works at Jeff. Over a decade later and she still gets a kick out of her patients' (and other doctors') reactions when they learn where she grew up and went to school.

Relatedly, UD's township services (trash, plowing, etc.) knock the socks off Philadelphia.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Raja

Can confirm. I met my wife while we were both freshmen at Penn. She went to Upper Darby High School and now works at Jeff. Over a decade later and she still gets a kick out of her patients' (and other doctors') reactions when they learn where she grew up and went to school.

Relatedly, UD's township services (trash, plowing, etc.) knock the socks off Philadelphia.

prior to the pandemic you had issues getting trash picked up on time in Philadelphia? My trash was picked up on schedule 99% of the time before COVID. I suppose it was 100% in some suburbs though.

[Urbanthusiat]

Hankin Group moves forward with $60M mixed-use development in Downingtown

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Hankin Group moves forward with $60M mixed-use development in Downingtown

I was just about to post this. A great boost for Downingtown!

[Raja]

Originally Posted by cardeza

prior to the pandemic you had issues getting trash picked up on time in Philadelphia? My trash was picked up on schedule 99% of the time before COVID. I suppose it was 100% in some suburbs though.

You're fun. Nah, we bought in March 2020 so I can't speak to pre-pandemic conditions. I can, however, compare our service in Philly during the past 18 months to the service my in-laws get in UD (also affected by a pandemic FYI), and there's no comparison. Anyways, the point is that a lot of people hate on UD so it's a pleasant surprise to see someone with a different view.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Raja

You're fun. Nah, we bought in March 2020 so I can't speak to pre-pandemic conditions. I can, however, compare our service in Philly during the past 18 months to the service my in-laws get in UD (also affected by a pandemic FYI), and there's no comparison. Anyways, the point is that a lot of people hate on UD so it's a pleasant surprise to see someone with a different view.

TBF, Upper Darby didn’t have a garbage strike at the outset of COVID.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat

Hankin Group moves forward with $60M mixed-use development in Downingtown

Great project! You can see a rendering in the article.

From the article:

Hankin Group has moved forward with the first phase of River Station, breaking ground on a $60 million project that includes a 203-unit apartment complex and 10,000 square feet of retail space across two buildings.

The project is part of a much larger mixed-use development that has been in the works for more than five years on the former Sonoco Products Co. property at Boot Road and Route 322 in Downingtown.

At buildout, River Station will have a total of 400 apartments developed by Hankin, which is known for its Eagleview mixed-use community in Exton, and will also include the relocation of the Downingtown train station, which is about a half mile away. In addition, the project will add a new pedestrian bridge over the Brandywine Creek to connect River Station to Downingtown’s Johnsontown Park.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

prior to the pandemic you had issues getting trash picked up on time in Philadelphia? My trash was picked up on schedule 99% of the time before COVID. I suppose it was 100% in some suburbs though.

Does "on time" include half of it ending up in the middle of the road and your trash cans being catapulted (and pulverized) by being thrown from 50 feet away in mid air?

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Does "on time" include half of it ending up in the middle of the road and your trash cans being catapulted (and pulverized) by being thrown from 50 feet away in mid air?

I think that's more of a Morale issue within "Streets".

I think a month ago I was outside working on the front of my house and trash was on time for Wednesday but late for the time so it was 3-4pm. and it was one of those hot and humid days, I see the trash truck guys and they are dripping in sweat, I ask him if they want any water and he exclaims YES!

That shocked me because you would think water would be provided every morning that they can put in the coolers. Who the fuck doesn't give someone mandatory water for the day when they work outside ????

So I completely understand why they don't pick up trash that falls or just throw cans back.

Whats the incentive for doing something right when you're treated like shit?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

I think that's more of a Morale issue within "Streets".

I think a month ago I was outside working on the front of my house and trash was on time for Wednesday but late for the time so it was 3-4pm. and it was one of those hot and humid days, I see the trash truck guys and they are dripping in sweat, I ask him if they want any water and he exclaims YES!

That shocked me because you would think water would be provided every morning that they can put in the coolers. Who the fuck doesn't give someone mandatory water for the day when they work outside ????

So I completely understand why they don't pick up trash that falls or just throw cans back.

Whats the incentive for doing something right when you're treated like shit?

I never said who I blamed for the situation. It's very clearly a very very poorly run department with no leadership.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Does "on time" include half of it ending up in the middle of the road and your trash cans being catapulted (and pulverized) by being thrown from 50 feet away in mid air?

no it didnt. You may want to read some of the articles written in recent months about the great life of a sanitation worker in philly during COVID. Not enviable work. If my trash is picked up on time and my cans were behind my house in or near my driveway I was happy, but obviously that is insufficient service for some folks.

[mcgrath618]

Should really go in the Transportation Thread, but

https://www.amtrakconnectsus.com/map...lphia-reading/

[202_Cyclist]

Take a new train to the plane? Group pushing for Atlantic City airport station.



Passengers wait outside of the terminal at the Atlantic City International Airport. Depending on the results of a study, travelers could use a train station proposed on the northern border of the airport property. (Noah K. Murray -The Star Ledger)


By Larry Higgs
Aug. 22, 2021

"Next stop Atlantic City Airport? The announcement could be heard on Atlantic City Line trains, depending on the outcome of a study about building a station at the north end of the airport.

NJ Transit and South Jersey Transportation Authority, which operates Atlantic City Airport, agreed to conduct a study about the feasibility of building a station on land a developer has offered in Galloway Township.

And the Atlantic City Rail Line has its own advocacy group, which backs the proposed airport station and other improvements to bring more passengers to trains and possibly to the airport..."

https://www.nj.com/news/2021/08/take...t-station.html