Halifax Stadium Discussion

[elly63]

I keep reading from the people who hope that the CFL doesn't come to Halifax about how the ownership group doesn't have any money. They have nothing to base this on as they are as clueless to this supposition as I am.

They'll plant their FUD about the issues LeBlanc may or may not have had in Phoenix and yet they were able to run an NHL team there, and with a payroll 10 times what would be expected for a CFL team.

Here's a little bio on one of the partners

Gary J. Drummond, QC, is an Independent Director of Pine Cliff Energy Ltd. Mr. Drummond is a Lawyer, businessman; Director and member of the audit committee of several public corporations, including Bonterra.

He has been Former Chairman of Universal Energy Group.; Former President and Chief Executive Officer of Direct Energy Marketing Limited, one of the largest unregulated natural gas retailers in North America, which was sold to Centrica PLC in an $884.2-million deal.

Whether this deal and the team happens, I know not, and I have stated I'd rather it didn't if it ended up like the Renegades but some people don't want this to happen and it's not for altruistic reasons like the city can't afford it or it will bankrupt the city.

If other cities, some even smaller can do it, council should pull their finger out and get on with the job like Regina did. The premier announced the stadium at a football game, and then they went out and did what they said they would.

[teddifax]

I love Halifax, but am SO TIRED of the Can't do attitude... The last few years I have been so proud of the city... but the naysayers seem to be winning... I hope they don't, I am a great believer in Halifax... We need this stadium to show the rest of the country the dynamic city we have.. Why should ( I believe ) the few people prototesting this, stop this! This will be used for many different reasons, not just the CFL. We missed out with the Commonwealth Games, let's not miss out again.

[elly63]

Listen to the last line of the clip above "Canada's team deserves a world class stadium, we're gonna get that done". That's confidence and leadership folks, and a can do attitude. The Maritimes deserves a stadium, at the very least.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

- Virtually every city on this planet with a population and economy like Halifax's has an outdoor sport or performance venue capable of holding well over 10,000 people. Hardly any of these were built purely with private sector pro sports dollars, and it is completely unrealistic to expect that to happen in Halifax. Why is normal infrastructure in most cities considered an extravagance in Halifax?

Hey man, all those bike lanes and street beautification projects are expensive, y'know...

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Hey man, all those bike lanes and street beautification projects are expensive, y'know...

As the world's oldest millennial, (I was doing millennial stuff before the term was born ) does anybody use bike paths.

I've always biked or walked to work and having lived in all three Maritime provinces, I've never seen any decent sized movements towards this. Maritimers love their cars, is there any need for bike paths in Halifax, I haven't lived there in a long time.

[Summerville]

interesting spin on the stadium discussion. It was mentioned on the radio today that HRM staff may be looking at lands at Woodside near the old Imperial oil refinery as an alternative to Shannon Park.

While I was indifferent to Shannon Park based on its location, Woodside seems to be a better site. I could even see this as a good spot for the Wanderers as well.

[elly63]

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Summerville

It was mentioned on the radio today that HRM staff may be looking at lands at Woodside near the old Imperial oil refinery as an alternative to Shannon Park

Where did you hear this, what station?

[dtown]

Originally Posted by Summerville

interesting spin on the stadium discussion. It was mentioned on the radio today that HRM staff may be looking at lands at Woodside near the old Imperial oil refinery as an alternative to Shannon Park.

While I was indifferent to Shannon Park based on its location, Woodside seems to be a better site. I could even see this as a good spot for the Wanderers as well.

It is interesting that they may be considering this, but is HRM considering Woodside or is SSE? I was under the impression SSE decided on Shannon Park because what would be most appealing to them is not the stadium/CFL piece but the potential for real estate development in the Shannon Park area, specifically the condos and shops/restaurants to go in right around the stadium.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by dtown

It is interesting that they may be considering this, but is HRM considering Woodside or is SSE? I was under the impression SSE decided on Shannon Park because what would be most appealing to them is not the stadium/CFL piece but the potential for real estate development in the Shannon Park area, specifically the condos and shops/restaurants to go in right around the stadium.

True, and hasn't there been an agreement with Canada Lands? Still, I like the idea about putting alternative ideas out there. There shouldn't be any self imposed deadlines to do this thing right.

[Summerville]

Originally Posted by elly63

Where did you hear this, what station?

It was the city councillors' hour on 95.7. They mentioned something about provincially owned land in the area. That it was being considered by HRM staff.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Summerville

It was the city councillors' hour on 95.7. They mentioned something about provincially owned land in the area. That it was being considered by HRM staff.

Ok, thanks

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Summerville

interesting spin on the stadium discussion. It was mentioned on the radio today that HRM staff may be looking at lands at Woodside near the old Imperial oil refinery as an alternative to Shannon Park.

The Rick Howe Show - 9 a.m.
The Rick Howe Show - Monday, November 18, 2019 Joining us this morning in studio is Deputy Mayor Tony Mancini and District 14 Councillor Lisa Blackburn. (stadium talk begins at 7:05)

[elly63]

Skeptics taking second look at CFL pitch
CTV Atlantic November 15 2019

A revised stadium proposal has prompted some critics to take a closer look. Paul Hollingsworth reports.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by elly63

As the world's oldest millennial, (I was doing millennial stuff before the term was born ) does anybody use bike paths.

Most of them are perpetually empty except for a tiny handful of true believers.

I've always biked or walked to work and having lived in all three Maritime provinces, I've never seen any decent sized movements towards this. Maritimers love their cars, is there any need for bike paths in Halifax, I haven't lived there in a long time.

The thing here is that there is a very loud and vocal lobby group, the HCC, which receives public money through various back doors (Mason's discretionary slush fund, and also the EAC which in turn gets significant tax money also). They have the ear of the HRM Planning Dept (several actually work there) and several members of Council, most notably Mason, Cleary and Austin. The combination of planners and Council members led HRM to adopt the rather foolish Integrated Mobility Plan which sees a significant percentage of trips moving to cycling over the next number of years. They seem to think we are San Diego or Amsterdam. Despite anyone with a lick of sense knowing that is unlikely to ever happen, they convinced Council to pour millions into cycling infrastructure for this tiny minority group, while dithering over far more effective transit options that would actually do something to get people out of their cars.

All of this has been discussed ad nauseum in the Halifax Active Transportation thread elsewhere in this forum.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by elly63

True, and hasn't there been an agreement with Canada Lands? Still, I like the idea about putting alternative ideas out there. There shouldn't be any self imposed deadlines to do this thing right.

It seems to me that even back 30+ years ago when my dad lived up on PMB in Wallis Heights that they were talking about a CFL stadium in Shannon Park when that area was going to be redeveloped. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some sort of tunnel vision about the location that it's just been that way for so long.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Most of them are perpetually empty except for a tiny handful of true believers.



The thing here is that there is a very loud and vocal lobby group, the HCC, which receives public money through various back doors (Mason's discretionary slush fund, and also the EAC which in turn gets significant tax money also). They have the ear of the HRM Planning Dept (several actually work there) and several members of Council, most notably Mason, Cleary and Austin. The combination of planners and Council members led HRM to adopt the rather foolish Integrated Mobility Plan which sees a significant percentage of trips moving to cycling over the next number of years. They seem to think we are San Diego or Amsterdam. Despite anyone with a lick of sense knowing that is unlikely to ever happen, they convinced Council to pour millions into cycling infrastructure for this tiny minority group, while dithering over far more effective transit options that would actually do something to get people out of their cars.

All of this has been discussed ad nauseum in the Halifax Active Transportation thread elsewhere in this forum.

So what are you going to do in 12 months when Mayor Mason is sworn in along with circa 4 new councillors ?
a) slit your wrists
b) jump off the bridge
c) vote with your feet
d) go down the pub to drown your sorrows

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Colin May

So what are you going to do in 12 months when Mayor Mason is sworn in along with circa 4 new councillors ?
a) slit your wrists
b) jump off the bridge
c) vote with your feet
d) go down the pub to drown your sorrows

If that nightmare scenario should somehow occur (and it is a very real possibility unless people wake up and come to their senses) option C is most likely for me, as I have already been investigating alternatives.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Option D for me...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I am having a hard time squaring this type of sentiment with a few realities:

- HRM has bid on major one-off sporting events in the past that included a stadium when there was no guarantee of a CFL team and they were widely supported until the budget hugely exceeded that of the current stadium proposal. Why were those proposals better than a much more affordable proposal focused on building durable infrastructure with a primary tenant already lined up? How on earth could it be that 2005 Halifax almost ran $700M+ CWGs while a $130M stadium is beyond the pale in 2019 Halifax?

- Virtually every city on this planet with a population and economy like Halifax's has an outdoor sport or performance venue capable of holding well over 10,000 people. Hardly any of these were built purely with private sector pro sports dollars, and it is completely unrealistic to expect that to happen in Halifax. Why is normal infrastructure in most cities considered an extravagance in Halifax?

- Halifax has hosted many outdoor concerts and events in the past that would have been better in a stadium rather than on a grassy field like the Common. Presumably if there were a decent venue there would be more of these events. So why do people keep saying this will only be for the CFL?

I think it's a bit messed up that this is being framed as a failure for the CFL promoters to pay more for a stadium rather than an opportunity for HRM that is unlikely to happen again for many years if the current council passes on it. It reminds me of a certain comment from Stephen Harper that rattled a few cages but had more than a kernel of truth to it.

Completely agree. As I have said before, I think there is a window of opportunity that is open now, but will close for a long time if nothing is done.