Sports in Canadian culture - Page 389

Denscity · #**7761** Posted **May 10, 2021, 2:30 PM**

Well at 40% of Canada I would hope Ontario would be on top.

esquire · #**7762** Posted **May 10, 2021, 2:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka

Something that crossed my mind a few weeks ago and I think has more relevance is where hockey players come from. Players from previous generations came from small, working-class towns, and that reflected in the sport itself. Now most players come from suburbs from much wealthier backgrounds. Speaks volumes to where the sport is in this country these days.

100% this. A lot of prospects from Manitoba have parents who are in the professional classes if not out and out wealthy. Gone are the days when the typical hockey playing kid had a stay at home mom and a dad who worked down at the meat packing plant, or for CN or wherever.

There are still hockey players coming from more modest means, but the default setting now IMO is basically the upper classes. It is becoming a posh sport.

VANRIDERFAN · #**7763** Posted **May 11, 2021, 3:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

100% this. A lot of prospects from Manitoba have parents who are in the professional classes if not out and out wealthy. Gone are the days when the typical hockey playing kid had a stay at home mom and a dad who worked down at the meat packing plant, or for CN or wherever.

There are still hockey players coming from more modest means, but the default setting now IMO is basically the upper classes. It is becoming a posh sport.

When soccer and basketball overtake hockey as the sports of choice, the hockey mafia will have no one but themselves to blame when nobody but sons of NHL players can afford to play.

esquire · #**7764** Posted **May 11, 2021, 4:46 PM**

Toronto Rock are moving to Hamilton, but will remain known as the Toronto Rock.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...lton-1.6021661

I'm assuming the place name won't be an issue given that the people in Hamilton are used to cheering for Toronto teams in leagues where they aren't represented?

JHikka · #**7765** Posted **May 11, 2021, 5:01 PM**

Always impressed that the Rock lasted as long as they did at Scotiabank. Very difficult to play and exist in a venue competing with everything else going on. We'll see how long the Toronto branding lasts in Hamilton, though.

megadude · #**7766** Posted **May 11, 2021, 6:00 PM**

I'll guess by the following year they'll become the Ontario Rock.

jonny24 · #**7767** Posted **May 11, 2021, 6:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Toronto Rock are moving to Hamilton, but will remain known as the Toronto Rock.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...lton-1.6021661

I'm assuming the place name won't be an issue given that the people in Hamilton are used to cheering for Toronto teams in leagues where they aren't represented?

The only "Toronto" team I support are the Toronto Arrows, and that's only because I love rugby more than anything. And even with them I wasn't thrilled when the renamed from the Ontario Arrows, although I understand the reasons.

Not that I'd be very likely to go watch a lacrosse game anyway, but I have no interest in being an outpost of Toronto. If a city welcomes you, you should reflect that. If you want to be a Toronto team, find somewhere in Toronto to play.

Acajack · #**7768** Posted **May 11, 2021, 6:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Toronto Rock are moving to Hamilton, but will remain known as the Toronto Rock.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...lton-1.6021661

I'm assuming the place name won't be an issue given that the people in Hamilton are used to cheering for Toronto teams in leagues where they aren't represented?

As others have said, there is a difference between cheering for teams branded "Toronto" that actually play in Toronto, and cheering for a team that kinda pretends that it plays in Toronto, but plays in Hamilton for reasons XYZ.

megadude · #**7769** Posted **May 11, 2021, 7:33 PM**

There's one example I can think of of a team with a city name playing in not just a suburb of that city, but beyond, in a separate market like is the case here. But I don't know if there is an existing rivalry between those cities. I'm assuming not. And in this case, the gap between Toronto and Hamilton as cities of importance is not as big as in the example I am thinking of.

The San Fran 49ers play in Santa Clara. The stadium is the exact same driving distance from the center of SF as Copps is from the center of TO.

But as to how much of a different market Santa Clara is to SF, it's hard to say because they do things differently in the US:

Quote:

County of Santa Clara, is California's 6th most populous county, with a population of 1,781,642, as of the 2010 census.[3] Santa Clara County and neighboring San Benito County together form the U.S. Census Bureau's San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA Metropolitan Statistical Area, which is part of the larger San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA Combined Statistical Area. Santa Clara is the most populous county in the San Francisco Bay Area and in Northern California.

But ya, as a human being, unless my true passion is lacrosse, I wouldn't feel inclined to embrace a Toronto named team if I am watching them right smack dab in the middle of my city that we view as very much a separate market.

The New York Giants, Jets, Red Bulls playing in Jersey is different of course, as they are just across the river and clearly in the NY market. And presumably most of their fans actually live in NY.

esquire · #**7770** Posted **May 11, 2021, 7:40 PM**

The Niners are a bit of a different situation because I doubt anyone in Santa Clara realistically perceives themselves as a rival to San Francisco. It's a bit like if the Rock had moved to a venue in Newmarket... I doubt many there would object to hosting the "Toronto" Rock.

It's a bit of a different situation with Hamilton which has a much more distinct identity and has historically been Toronto's rival in sports (mainly the CFL, but with brief stints in the NHL, AHL, OHL and more recently the CPL...).

I guess someone in team management did the math and figured they'd gain more fans from the GTA going this route than they would lose from the Hamilton area.

SteelTown · #**7771** Posted **May 11, 2021, 7:46 PM**

The owner has probably invested too much money on the name Toronto Rocks to change it, clothing, marketing, merchandise, etc.

I'm sure after one or two seasons at Copps it'll be Ontario Rocks. Or hell they could go back to the old name, Ontario Raiders when they played at Copps during the late 90's.

Djeffery · #**7772** Posted **May 12, 2021, 1:00 AM**

I wonder if this was totally the team's decision. I'm reminded a bit of the Barclays Center basically telling the Islanders to go away. I can see Scotiabank telling the Rock the same thing. Like Barclays, Scotiabank is one of the busiest concert arenas in North America, and they don't want dates taken up by lightly drawing teams. The Rock drew great when they first moved to the ACC but did less than 9000 a game in the last full season before Covid. I can't imagine it's cheap to rent either.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do better in Hamilton. They will likely have a higher stature in the community than they do in Toronto, but I do agree, keeping the Toronto name will be a mistake. Maybe in the short term, they can use that locally to promote the new "big league" team in town, but if they have desires to stay in the Hammer long term, the Toronto name needs to go.

suburbanite · #**7773** Posted **May 12, 2021, 1:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I wonder if this was totally the team's decision. I'm reminded a bit of the Barclays Center basically telling the Islanders to go away. I can see Scotiabank telling the Rock the same thing. Like Barclays, Scotiabank is one of the busiest concert arenas in North America, and they don't want dates taken up by lightly drawing teams. The Rock drew great when they first moved to the ACC but did less than 9000 a game in the last full season before Covid. I can't imagine it's cheap to rent either.

Scotiabank Arena is one of the busiest venues in North America (in normal times), given the city doesn't have multiple venues that can accommodate international concert tours. It probably hasn't made financial sense for several years to be switching over to yet another surface for indoor lacrosse. Ricoh would've been a cool venue for them to go to.

JHikka · #**7774** Posted **May 12, 2021, 1:13 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Scotiabank Arena is one of the busiest venues in North America (in normal times), given the city doesn't have multiple venues that can accommodate international concert tours. It probably hasn't made financial sense for several years to be switching over to yet another surface for indoor lacrosse. Ricoh would've been a cool venue for them to go to.

Interesting that the team decided on Hamilton instead of Ricoh Coca-Cola Coliseum - their recent crowd sizes would have fit neatly into CCC and they would have retained at least some downtown presence. I wonder if MLSE has anything to do with the Rock vacating Toronto entirely...

Djeffery · #**7775** Posted **May 12, 2021, 1:49 AM**

I was curious about Coca-Cola as well, but I bet the owner has hopes of returning to higher crowds than they can get in there. I would imagine that even though the average attendance would fit in there, they probably still have the odd game that outdraws CCC capacity, and playoffs maybe even considerably higher. Plus they would have to fight the "minor league" perception of playing there. The teams that play in markets with NHL/NBA size arenas generally play in them, and the other markets, they play in whatever the major arena is in that market.

esquire · #**7776** Posted **May 12, 2021, 12:49 PM**

I wonder if the Rock's ownership has designs on bringing them back to Toronto at some point? If so, it's probably worth it to maintain some continuity in branding.

esquire · #**7777** Posted **May 17, 2021, 2:25 PM**

Raptors Superfan Nav Bhatia was honoured by the Basketball Hall of Fame... here he is by his display, flashing the Hall of Fame ring:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...fame-1.5464679

Incredible stuff, you have to admire his dedication and fandom. He is also well known as a generous philanthropist and supporter of various causes. What a guy... a richly deserved honour for sure.

Airboy · #**7778** Posted **May 17, 2021, 4:37 PM**

Watching the final Olympic qualifying events over the weekend.

Rowing qualified 3 more boats, also medaled all 3 at the WC event.

This makes for 10 boats qualifying, In Rowing you qualify the boat not the athlete. This is also the most boats qualified since 1996.

And in Track Canada has qualified for the women's 5000 meter.

le calmar · #**7779** Posted **May 17, 2021, 5:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I'm reminded a bit of the Barclays Center basically telling the Islanders to go away.

I don’t think this is what happened though. Barclays was unsuitable for hockey (obstructed views, poor ice quality, etc.) and the fans could not bother going to Brooklyn from Long Island. It didn’t take long for the Islanders’ ownership to realize this was an unsustainable situation.

esquire · #**7780** Posted **May 17, 2021, 6:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar

I don’t think this is what happened though. Barclays was unsuitable for hockey (obstructed views, poor ice quality, etc.) and the fans could not bother going to Brooklyn from Long Island. It didn’t take long for the Islanders’ ownership to realize this was an unsustainable situation.

Considering the wide footprint of hockey in the US, I'm surprised that those sorts of basketball-only buildings are still built down there. Unless of course it's for a college team that has no intention of ever hosting hockey.

You'd think having the Islanders as a long-term tenant would be a nice feather in Barclays Centre's cap, and a good moneymaker for them. But it was so badly compromised that it was destined not to work... it was a stopgap temporary situation, kind of like when the Coyotes shared the Suns' arena in Phoenix.