Lamenting the decline of the car

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by rousseau

If we really cared about safety we'd be the Netherlands.

Thank you.

I'm blown away at level of design detail they put into every crosswalk, bike path, etc.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by rousseau

If we really cared about safety we'd be the Netherlands.

• Video Link

I wonder why we don't have fully colour coded bike lanes here. Is a bucket of paint really that cost prohibitive?

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Thank you.

I'm blown away at level of design detail they put into every crosswalk, bike path, etc.

When you watch the video you never doubt for a moment that the danger to cyclists and pedestrians from motor vehicles has been minimized as much as possible.

Clearly motor vehicles have been tamed in the Netherlands. Apparently a vociferous lobby rose up in the 1970s in response to rising car accident rates, and basically forced several amenable left-leaning municipal governments to get the ball rolling with cycling safety, and it eventually spread throughout the country.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by theman23

I wonder why we don't have fully colour coded bike lanes here. Is a bucket of paint really that cost prohibitive?

You see it with some cycling lanes, but it's not widespread or standardized.

[Truenorth00]

Building cities for people is an offensive idea to most Canadians who think being stuck in traffic at the beginning and end of each work day is normal and a good thing.

I actually do like to drive. But no way I want to do it in a crowded city with pedestrians, cyclists, etc. Motoring is meant to be enjoyed on the open road.

Incidentally, our habit of mediocrity actually does carry over to road design and driving habits. Which is why we can't have the higher speed limits that are so common in Europe.

[Denscity]

I've seen green bike lanes here and in Vancouver.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by theman23

...Is a bucket of paint really that cost prohibitive?

FWIW, it's not paint, but red tinted asphalt (and sometimes concrete). In Vancouver they do use paint or other toppings, which sucks. A few times I've actually slipped on painted sections.

I spent a couple years with significant time in Den Haag and rode their bike paths significantly. Forgetting that so many things are different from Canada wrt cycling and transportation in general, it was a truly wonderful experience.

I don't think we could recreate it in it's entirety in Canada, but we certainly can do better.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by rousseau

When you watch the video you never doubt for a moment that the danger to cyclists and pedestrians from motor vehicles has been minimized as much as possible.

Clearly motor vehicles have been tamed in the Netherlands. Apparently a vociferous lobby rose up in the 1970s in response to rising car accident rates, and basically forced several amenable left-leaning municipal governments to get the ball rolling with cycling safety, and it eventually spread throughout the country.

Motorists automatically have 100% liability in the Netherlands. If a drunk cyclist drives going the wrong way on a one way street rides into into a stopped car it is the driver’s fault.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by shreddog

FWIW, it's not paint, but red tinted asphalt (and sometimes concrete). In Vancouver they do use paint or other toppings, which sucks. A few times I've actually slipped on painted sections.

I spent a couple years with significant time in Den Haag and rode their bike paths significantly. Forgetting that so many things are different from Canada wrt cycling and transportation in general, it was a truly wonderful experience.

I don't think we could recreate it in it's entirety in Canada, but we certainly can do better.

Yes actually ours is a green abrasive "asphalt". Saw it go down on a recent main street rebuild.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Motorists automatically have 100% liability in the Netherlands. If a drunk cyclist drives going the wrong way on a one way street rides into into a stopped car it is the driver’s fault.

That’s stupid.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by whatnext

That’s stupid.

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense, especially in a country as logical as the Netherlands. A cursory Google search shows that it isn't true.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense, especially in a country as logical as the Netherlands. A cursory Google search shows that it isn't true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_liability

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_liability

From your link:

...in a collision between a car and a cyclist, the driver is deemed to be liable to pay damages and his insurer (n.b. motor vehicle insurance is mandatory in the Netherlands, while cyclist insurance is not) must pay the full damages, as long as 1) the collision was unintentional (i.e. neither party, motorist or cyclist, intentionally crashed into the other), and 2) the cyclist was not in error in some way.

Cycling the wrong way down a one-way street is illegal, as is cycling under the influence in the Netherlands, therefore the cyclist would be "in error" if a collision of the sort you give as an example above occurs.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by rousseau

From your link:



Cycling the wrong way down a one-way street is illegal, as is cycling under the influence in the Netherlands, therefore the cyclist would be "in error" if a collision of the sort you give as an example above occurs.

Yeah you’re right, it would be minimum 50% liability with the split of the other 50% determined by the court.

Still pretty brutal for the driver, the cyclist is 100% at fault and you have to pay a minimum of 50% of damages.

[whatnext]

Largely on the basis of Volkswagen group's electric push, Norway has become the first country to have EVs outsell ICE vehicles:

Norway becomes first country where EVs outsell combustion cars
In 2020, 54.3% of new cars sold in the country were pure electric, compared with 6.6% in the UK
NEWS
by Will Trinkwon
6 January 2021

Norway has become the first country in the world where the majority of new car sales are pure-electric cars, spurred on largely by demand for Volkswagen Group EVs.

In 2020, 54.3% of all new cars sold in Norway were fully electric, up from 42.1% in 2019. This marks the first time such cars have comprised more than 50% of new car sales in a country across a full year....

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/e...ombustion-cars

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Denscity

I've seen green bike lanes here and in Vancouver.

Not really the same. Bike lanes in Netherlands are differentiated by colour along their entire length. In the event that bike lanes are not fully grade separated, it offers a visual reminder to motorists to not enter those lanes. Vancouver only paints lanes as they go through intersections.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by theman23

Not really the same. Bike lanes in Netherlands are differentiated by colour along their entire length. In the event that bike lanes are not fully grade separated, it offers a visual reminder to motorists to not enter those lanes. Vancouver only paints lanes as they go through intersections.

Here's a view of Vancouver that proves you wrong.

https://goo.gl/maps/1bNDU6Pk3AhhQz7EA

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Architype

Here's a view of Vancouver that proves you wrong.

https://goo.gl/maps/1bNDU6Pk3AhhQz7EA

That’s nice, but most of the bike lines in the city aren’t like that. That’s literally a 30 second stretch of road.

[Innsertnamehere]

My understanding is the Netherlands uses red asphalt for bike lanes, not painting them.

NA doesn’t use coloured asphalt as the standard lane colour is green. So you are stuck with paint which is very expensive so it has to be limited in use.

Ontario has used red asphalt before, but for transit. York Region used it on the Viva bus lanes.

[theman23]

Is red asphalt more expensive or something?