Atlantic Highways Thread

[JHikka]

NB Transportation Minister Claude Williams confirmed yesterday that the twinning of Route 11 between Shediac and Miramichi would be their focus following this coming fiscal year.

This current year will see bypasses in Welsford, Marysville, and Caraquet either commence or complete.

[Mattyyy]

Originally Posted by JHikka

NB Transportation Minister Claude Williams confirmed yesterday that the twinning of Route 11 between Shediac and Miramichi would be their focus following this coming fiscal year.

This current year will see bypasses in Welsford, Marysville, and Caraquet either commence or complete.

Are they referring to a full twinning from end to end, or the partial twinning of two different parts?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

Are they referring to a full twinning from end to end, or the partial twinning of two different parts?

That's what I was wondering myself. The reports that were released some months ago indicated Shediac -> Bouctouche was the priority, although IIRC the entire length to Miramichi is primed to be twinned (land, grade, etc.). Personally I would be ok with twinning as far north as Bouctouche for the time being.

[Mattyyy]

Originally Posted by Mattyyy

Are they referring to a full twinning from end to end, or the partial twinning of two different parts?

On doing some research it looks as though I have answered my question. If you go to the Department of Transportation website and click on information for public projects, it lists the details on projects.

Seems as though they have switched their tone on the highway, and they now plan on twinning from end to end, but twinning the busiest sections first as funding becomes available.

http://www2.gnb.ca/content/gnb/en/de...ichibucto.html

[Dmajackson]

Government of Nova Scotia Five-Year Highway Plan - 2013/2014 Edition

The Dexter government has released the new provincial highway plan for the upcoming fiscal year. Here are the highlights;

Major Construction Projects for 2013–14:

- Highway 103: Broad River to Port Joli, new alignment (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 104: Antigonish Bypass Phase 2, from Beech Hill Road to Taylor Road (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 107: Burnside to Bedford Phase 1 (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 125: twinning Sydney River, Kings Road to Grand Lake Road (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 102: Exit 14 Eastern Ramps with Robie Street (Truro), Intersection Improvement
- Route 207 (Portland Street): from the on ramp to Woodlawn Road, retaining structure and lane addition – 0.2 km
- Route 374: Foord Street Culvert drainage improvements
- Trunk 4: from 0.2 km west of Campbell's Bridge westerly to 0.2 km west of MacNab's Bridge – 6.1 km (Multiple Year Project)
- Cabot Trail (Trunk 30): from the Old Cabot Trail Road intersection northerly to La Pointe De Havre Road – 6.4 km (Multiple Year Project)
- Panuke Road: curve realignment

Major Construction Projects for 2014–15:

- Highway 101: Granite Drive Interchange and Connector (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 103: Broad River to Port Joli, new alignment (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 103: Ingramport Interchange (Exit 5– 6) (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 104: Antigonish Bypass Phase 2, from Beech Hill Road to Taylor Road (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 104: Taylor Road to Monastery – Paqtnkek Interchange (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 107: Burnside to Bedford Phase 1 (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 125: twinning Sydney River, Kings Road to Grand Lake Road (Multiple Year Project)
- Trunk 4: from 0.2 km west of McNabs Bridge westerly to Soldiers Cove Road – 6.1 km
- Cabot Trail (Trunk 30): from the Little River Road southerly – 6 km

Major Construction Projects for 2015–16:

- Highway 101: Granite Drive Interchange and Connector (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 103: Broad River to Port Joli, new alignment (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 103: Ingramport Interchange (Exit 5–6) (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 104: Antigonish Bypass Phase 2, from Beech Hill Road to Taylor Road (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 104: Taylor Road to Monastery – Paq'tnkek Interchange (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 107: Burnside to Bedford Phase 1 (Multiple Year Project)
- Trunk 4: from Soldiers Cove Road westerly to 1.8 km west of Corbett's Cove Road – 5.2 km
- Cabot Trail (Trunk 30): Meadows Road (north end) northerly to 1 km south of Tarbotville Road – 5.5 km

Major Construction Projects for 2016–17:

- Highway 104: Antigonish Bypass Phase 2, from Beech Hill Road to Taylor Road, 8 km (Multiple Year Project)
- Highway 104: Taylor Road to Monastery – Paq'tnkek Interchange (Multiple Year Project)
- Trunk 4: from 1.8 km west of Corbett's Cove Road westerly to the Canal Bridge in St. Peters – 6.2 km
- Cabot Trail (Trunk 30): from Route 312 intersection northerly – 7 km

Major Construction Projects for 2017–18:

- Cabot Trail (Trunk 30): from 1.0 km south of Tarbotville Road northerly to Route 312 – 4.1 km

[stephan.richard]

From what I have heard regarding the twinning of Highway 11 it would be the busiest stretched but it would be done in sections. What Minister Williams would like to do is the passing lanes first and the focus on building the bridges after. Cause in a project of this magnitude it is the bridges that are by far the most expensive part. But I hope that we get to see construction in my neck of the woods on that highway.

The Route 11 project has been promissed by the Bernard Lord government in 2006 then the previous government decides to change the focus from route 11 to the IRVING route 1 that will eventually connect to the I395 that will go from St-Stephen all the way to Bangor Maine and the last that I heard the Maine government is conducting Environmental impact assesments to see if they are going to go forwardwith the project.

Originally Posted by JHikka

That's what I was wondering myself. The reports that were released some months ago indicated Shediac -> Bouctouche was the priority, although IIRC the entire length to Miramichi is primed to be twinned (land, grade, etc.). Personally I would be ok with twinning as far north as Bouctouche for the time being.

[Nashe]

That Shediac interchange is pretty... funky. It's a bit more extensive than I imagined it might be, but jibes well with all the stakes I've seen on the side of the 11. My house is 3 lots down from the "M" in Mirimichi, so I guess I'm gonna see a lot of construction in the near future.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

That Shediac interchange is pretty... funky. It's a bit more extensive than I imagined it might be, but jibes well with all the stakes I've seen on the side of the 11. My house is 3 lots down from the "M" in Mirimichi, so I guess I'm gonna see a lot of construction in the near future.

I consider the current interchange pretty dangerous, so I would take a funky one anyday!

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I consider the current interchange pretty dangerous, so I would take a funky one anyday!

Oh, I agree. Interesting that they're creating a total bypass, not just updating what they have. I guess you'd have to, though, given the proximity of the Shediac one-lane-overpass to the 11/15 one.

[CdnEh]

So can somebody please explain to me why we're twinning highways between two relatively small towns, yet the highway between Saint John and Fredericton, two major population, business, and industry centers for the province, remains single lane?

Even after the Welsford Bypass opens it'll only be something like 19km of the whole route that is twinned.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by CdnEh

Even after the Welsford Bypass opens it'll only be something like 19km of the whole route that is twinned.

I'm not actually certain that the Welsford Bypass will be completely twinned, for starters. Check the Google Maps satellite of the bypass...doesn't look wide enough to be a twinned highway to me. Even so, it'll save a good amount of time and blood pressure from having to drive through the winding wilderness of Welsford. I'd say it'll save 5-10 minutes.

I know the lack of a twinned highway between SJ and Fredericton is a sore point for some Saint Johners. I've had plenty of people tell me that SJ is the only place in NB without a twinned highway to the Capital and, they say, that's on purpose.

I'm in the camp that would like to see Route 7 twinned but I can't see it happening any time soon. I can't see the government changing tune on Route 11 and that's where the priority is right now. I will say, however, that a twinned highway between SJ and Fred would probably cut 10 minutes down on the total time (45-60 mins.) and would be very welcome if/when the time comes.

The prioritization of Route 11 over Route 7 is the result of some believing that building a twinned highway will result in increased traffic and interest in the area, particularly tourists. For places such as Richibucto, Kouchibouguac National Park, Miramichi et. al. it will be easier to draw people there knowing that the drive will be much safer. I know personally that I will be driving to Miramichi this weekend and it would be lovely if Route 11 were twinned even as far as Richibucto . Richibucto & Bouctouche (I think you were referring?) are small towns yes, but Kent County has a very spread out and vast population (there's something like 20-25K residents spread out throughout southeastern Kent County). That is one of the reasons why Route 11 is looking at being twinned. Route 7 has no such population en route between two large centres.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by CdnEh

So can somebody please explain to me why we're twinning highways between two relatively small towns, yet the highway between Saint John and Fredericton, two major population, business, and industry centers for the province, remains single lane?

Even after the Welsford Bypass opens it'll only be something like 19km of the whole route that is twinned.

I sympathize with having route 7 completely divided between Fredericton and Saint John. It seems absurd that it is not divided already.

The issue may be traffic counts. As Greg pointed out, route 7 passes mostly through wilderness and as such, almost all the traffic would be through traffic. Route 11 on the other hand has a lot more local traffic contributing to the AADT. In addition, the southern section of the 11 has commuter traffic to Moncton and there is considerable tourist traffic in the summertime.

The AADT for route 11 is as follows:

15,000 between Bouctouche & Shediac
6,000 between Kouchibouguac and Bouctouche
10,000 between Glenwood and Miramichi

In general, once traffic counts exceed 10,000 per day, the AADT is sufficient to warrant twinning. The counts between Bouctouche and Shediac more than justify twinning the highway.....

[JHikka]

NB Finance Minister Blaine Higgs has raised the question of a referendum being held in regards to Highway Tolls in New Brunswick:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...endum-407.html

200km of the Trans-Labrador between Goose Bay and Red Bay will be widened and paved:
http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?...30269&latest=1

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...ement-128.html

http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Loca...d-resurfaced/1

[C_Boy]

I say bring on the tolls! Since we are the so called, "drive thru" province, if we set them at our borders, NBers wont be really paying for it anyway! We obviously need to make some changes and bring in revenue, why not start with this.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by C_Boy

I say bring on the tolls! Since we are the so called, "drive thru" province, if we set them at our borders, NBers wont be really paying for it anyway! We obviously need to make some changes and bring in revenue, why not start with this.

I wouldn't mind a toll in St. Jacques and Sackville. Maybe one in Rothesay if we wanted to be cheeky I wonder if people would mind tolls on their shiny new Route 11

In all honesty the biggest lobbying against tolls would be from the company that is headquarted in NB. They're part of the reason why the Freddy/Moncton tolls were removed.

[MonctonRad]

I'm not entirely against the idea of road tolls, it would just have to be done smartly, and with the full realization that tolls alone will not cure the provincial deficit.

If you really want to slay the deficit, the nuclear device capable of doing this would be to increase the HST by 2%. I believe that I heard somewhere that by doing this, you would raise about $350M in new government revenue. That's pretty close to our annual deficit right there!

Road tolls on the other hand would likely raise only something like $40-60M. That is really just a drop in the bucket. The question therefore is "why would you do it"? I suppose the answer is that you would be capturing some revenue from non-New Brunswickers.

To me, you should only have a minimal number of collection points, probably no more than 3-4, and station them strategically so that local traffic is not inconvenienced. This was a big problem with the first toll station that was erected between Moncton and Salisbury. It captured commuters and local traffic and led to the revolt that panicked the Lord government into backing down on the whole proposal.

The best location for a toll station on the Moncton-Fredericton portion of the TCH is on the section between Salisbury and Young's Cove. The highway passes through 80km of nothingness and local traffic is nil. There probably should be a toll station just inside the Quebec-NB border as well. Again, I don't think there is a huge amount of local cross border traffic there. As for Route 1, I am undecided where the best place for a toll station would be. You want to be careful that you don't disadvantage Charlotte County residents. I don't know Greg, what do you think?

If Highway 11 is ever twinned, and if provincial road tolls are ever instituted, then it should be tolled from the get go, probably somewhere north of Bouctouche.....

Overall though, I'm not sure road tolls would be worth the trouble and aggravation for the provincial government to institute. An HST hike and increased income tax on higher earners would be the better way to go IMHO......

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

As for Route 1, I am undecided where the best place for a toll station would be. You want to be careful that you don't disadvantage Charlotte County residents. I don't know Greg, what do you think?

Rothesay, just east of Saint John city limits

If you're looking at trapping the maximum amount of traffic that's where you would put it, although there would be riots in the SJ suburbs (too bad ). I might suggest tolls just west of St. Stephen near the new border crossing at Calais but, and this is a but, if the Trans-Maine is ever built you'd literally be paying two separate tolls within a few KM of each other (and more if you then drove south on the Maine Turnpike). I can't think of an ideal location on Route 1 that would be optimal without pissing off a large number of people.

I still stand by 3 S suggestions for tolls (St. Jacques / Sackville / Sainte-Anne-de-Kent) (alternatively you could add St. Stephen or Salisbury )

[mylesmalley]

I love the logic behind trying to locate tolls in places that don't inconvenience people!

I'd say:

Sackville, Scoudouc, just west of Salisbury, Woodstock, Saint Jacques and St. Stephen.

Scoudouc would definitely piss people off, but it's the best location to get the traffic on Route 11 and 15.

It would take getting used to, but it's hardly without precedent. Going down I-95, there has to be a toll every 10 miles in some parts. The sites I suggest would hit people travelling between cities, but not within regions (with the exception of Shediac-Moncton). But in lieu of the larger tolls that they use in Nova Scotia, have lower but more frequent ones.

Frankly, tolls are only fair. Highways are a public good, no question, and we all benefit throughout the province. But there's no denying that some of us benefit a lot more than others. Someone in Bathurst who's never even been on Route 1 still has to pay for it. The least the heavy users can do is pay their share of the upkeep.

[mylesmalley]

And for the record, even if you did have to pay 4 or 5 $2 tolls, it's still less than a tenth of the cost per kilometer travelled than on the 407 in Toronto. They charge 26.16 to drive just over 100km during the middle of the day, and our stretch of the TCH is more than five times longer!

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

And for the record, even if you did have to pay 4 or 5 $2 tolls, it's still less than a tenth of the cost per kilometer travelled than on the 407 in Toronto. They charge 26.16 to drive just over 100km during the middle of the day, and our stretch of the TCH is more than five times longer!

And the opposition here would give you something along the lines of "but we don't live in Toronto!"

I agree with everything else you posted. I think the anger directed at the usage of local tolls (Scoudouc) would be offset by the government at the time of imposing said tolls being able to say "Yes, but most of the tolls are at our borders." Convincing the public that tolls are a good thing is an important first step, but the main detractors of tolls are going to be the industries that utilize trucking, mainly Irving.