Why is Denver so Expen$ive?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by pdxtex

its an alpha outdoor town and white people love them some mountains! 2 hours to the best skiing in north america, 300 days of sunshine a year, low crime, high cultural quotient. its also the only game in town, err, along the front range that is.....its a island of urbanity with with 500 miles of prairie one way and 600 miles of rocks and desert the other. i lived in boulder 25 years ago and it was expensive then.

I never understood this really because IMO Denver is pretty far from the mountains and "nature" compared to basically every other inter-mountain and west city.

If you are really into snow sports Salt Lake (park city) is by far a superior choice.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by AviationGuy

I would hardly call Albuquerque "hot desert". It's elevation is 5,300 ft, and it sits at the base of a high mountain range. It has mild summers and cool winters.

Moab is fairly high elevation at about 4,000 ft. It has truly hot summers but cold average temperatures in the winter.

"Hot desert" would apply to places like low elevation Phoenix, but even there, winters are very mild.

I could see why a Texan would consider Albuquerque a cool desert

I guess it depends on your frame of reference. When I think cool or mild desert I think of places like eastern Washington and Oregon, Snake River Valley, northern Nevada, eastern California, or even a place like Denver. It's not just about altitude, all of these places are up there in latitude as well. Any city as far south as Albuquerque (it's even farther south than Las Vegas or Nashville) I would consider a warm or hot desert, even if the high altitude makes it somewhat tolerable. Of course Moab and Albuquerque are downright chilly compared to the Mojave and Sonoran deserts, but those are some of the hottest places on the planet.

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by JAYNYC

If I had an option between living in Atlanta or Denver, there would be no debate. Denver wouldn't be in the conversation.

That would be a very tough choice for me. Atlanta for food and culture. Denver for the weather and proximity to nature.

[JAYNYC]

Originally Posted by badrunner

That would be a very tough choice for me. Atlanta for food and culture. Denver for the weather and proximity to nature.

For me, Denver would only score points for its (relative) proximity to California (my favorite state).

Beyond that, ATL all day.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Obadno

If you are really into snow sports Salt Lake (park city) is by far a superior choice.

True. The Wasatch Range hosted the Olympics. Consistent/superior snow conditions.

Salt Lake is a gem. The more people that refuse to consider it an ideal location the better.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by JAYNYC

For me, Denver would only score points for its (relative) proximity to California (my favorite state).

Beyond that, ATL all day.

Woah Pot'nah [partner], Denver is nowhere close to California, it's well east of the continental divide. It's practically middle America aka - "fly-over" to those of us 'West Coasters'.

I'll give you that your NYC perspective of Denver being closer to California than say Kansas City, but c'mon man!

[JAYNYC]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Woah Pot'nah [partner], Denver is nowhere close to California, it's well east of the continental divide. It's practically middle America aka - "fly-over" to those of us 'West Coasters'.

I'll give you that your NYC perspective of Denver being closer to California than say Kansas City, but c'mon man!

Thank you kindly for the comprehensive US geography tutorial. I'm sure at some point in life it will serve as a useful supplement to my existing graduate degree.

Perhaps you overlooked my use of the term "relative" in my response to badrunner? As in, "Denver is relatively close to California, by comparison to Atlanta?

And why mention Kansas City at all, when Denver and Atlanta were the cities being discussed? Very odd.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I never understood this really because IMO Denver is pretty far from the mountains and "nature" compared to basically every other inter-mountain and west city.

If you are really into snow sports Salt Lake (park city) is by far a superior choice.

But Salt Lake City is also full of Mormons and you can barely get a real beer. Denver is also the only really large Interior West city with a real economy.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by JAYNYC

Thank you kindly for the comprehensive US geography tutorial. I'm sure at some point in life it will serve as a useful supplement to my existing graduate degree.

Perhaps you overlooked my use of the term "relative" in my response to badrunner? As in, "Denver is relatively close to California, by comparison to Atlanta?

And why mention Kansas City at all, when Denver and Atlanta were the cities being discussed? Very odd.

Lol -- are you serious though?

Denver is relatively close to the 'West Coast' compared to a city in the original colonies of the United States with Atlantic seaboard coastline -- True.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

^ I didn't mean office space... but I expected downtown to be more happening given the hype Denver gets. Union Station is nice, but the 16th street mall didn't seem particularly active. Maybe I was in the wrong place? Boulder seemed to have a more vibrant downtown. You're probably right that many peer cities are worse, but they don't get the same hype.

I don't see how downtown Boulder could seem more vibrant than Downtown Denver on any hour of any day. I just don't see it. Maybe you were in the wrong place.

Anyway, this conversation is about why Denver is expensive. And that would have more to do with why there's so much demand to live here. And of course the 16th Street Mall would have nothing to do with why people live here since once you live here you're no longer a tourist. It's all about the walkable neighborhoods that surround downtown. And really, those are the only parts of the city that have become prohibitively expensive due to the dramatically increased demand for techies/yuppies/hipsters to live in such places. You can still find a cheep place to live around here if you're willing to live in the suburbs. I think, overall, the metropolis is still pretty cheap.

As for Denver's "hype," I keep hearing of such a thing - mostly in certain corners of the internet such as this, but it's hard to gauge what amount of hype there may be outside of Denver, when you're actually in Denver. I do know that when I lived in California -- not too long ago -- I sensed no Denver hype whatsoever. People mostly seemed to think of it as some podunk cow/oil town in the middle of flyover country and I found myself constantly defending my poor misunderstood hometown. Apparently Denver has abruptly started getting a ton of hype. Maybe the legal pot has something to do with it? It's hard for me to gauge it. It's quite possible Denver is over-hyped.

I hope it's not getting hyped nearly as much as Austin. If it is, I'm sorry. No, it doesn't deserve that much hype. (FTR I love Austin and all -- I think it's great, really -- but man I'm sick and fucking tired of hearing about it.)

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by 10023

But Salt Lake City is also full of Mormons and you can barely get a real beer. Denver is also the only really large Interior West city with a real economy.

3.2 beers in Colorado was a real thing.

Is this still in effect?

E] Some lucky ladies might remember the Ol' Sun Belt at the Wash Bar in Fort Collins when we had an at length discussion about 3/2 beer and the effects with elevation and those at sea level were lucky 'cuz they could drink more.

Maybe things have changed since then though, I don't know.

[mrnyc]

ayyy maracrena --- hey everybody sorry for the non sequitur, but take a quick time out to look at the gorgeous spring colors down in columbia:
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/c...bia/index.html

Originally Posted by The North One

I fail to see what quality of life change there is in Denver, does Colorado offer universal healthcare and subsidized higher education?

why does there need to be one thats so different than anywhere else? its a city. people move to cities these days. anyway, yes to both of those questions for some groups of people. as everywhere else in the usa.

Originally Posted by The North One

Otherwise, you're living in some crappy detached home and commuting on the highway just like everybody else in the united states.

no. only by choice. plenty of people live in apts in denver. more importantly, new construction is now at 50% apts vs only 10% not so long ago back in the early 2000s. the apt living rate for the usa as a whole is 20% of the population, so that already puts denver in the top third and rising for apt living.

Originally Posted by The North One

White middle class have the same standard of living basically everywhere they can find decent jobs except differences in cost and a few amenities.

so then they don't have the same sol basically everywhere.

Originally Posted by The North One

Also Denver has horrible weather, their temperature fluctuations are worse than anything you'd find in even Minnesota. Heavy snow in may is not uncommon for them at all.

subjective issue, although what you are saying may be in fact what helps make for unique. people are well aware denver has snow and weather, yet they are moving in, so they must like it.

Originally Posted by The North One

I

A city that's mostly white and uncontroversial in the US will always be put on a pedestal. And Denver is not diverse enough to muddle the stats.

this is a commonly held and very local usa misrepresentation regarding denver and diversity, because no outsiders would think like that. denver's 600k is a respectable 1 in 6 foreign born. about 10% of those are euros and 30% hispanic, for example, and the latter population is quite visible. white in denver is more diverse than white overseas in say, sheffield or krakow, if they even measure white, which i doubt. so while it might not be a paragon of diversity by usa standards, denver aint bad in the overall scheme of things. that said, yes outside of the coasts young/white/post college/yuppie type/starter family aged people certainly do take to it like they do portland, austin and i guess we can add nashville lately, for their taste of urban living, but its not like they are the only ones.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by tdawg

Denver is on our list to move to after NYC (we're both working on post-graduate degrees), along with Atlanta, Austin, and San Diego. I didn't realize that Denver was so expensive. I also don't understand how Atlanta continues to be so inexpensive, comparatively, given how fast the inner city is growing. One of our best friends here just landed a teaching gig at Emory and found a loft in Inman Park for $1600/month.

It's not a coveted "it" city like San Diego, Austin or Denver where people want to be regardless of economy. Atlanta is more like Dallas and Houston and driven more by its economic pull. That said, I've been to all your choices and all great cities.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

3.2 beers in Colorado was a real thing.

Is this still in effect?

Only 3.2 beer was allowed in chain stores such as grocery stores. You had to go to an actual liquor store to get real beer. No, it's no longer in effect. 3.2 beer (or "near beer" as we used to call it), is a thing of the past (thank god).

[Sun Belt]

tdawg's experience is nothing new. This is what happens over and over and over again. New Yorkers flee New York, no matter their personal reasoning.

Go to a home game that hosts a New York team and guess what happens? A sell out from expats, that fled their home for a better life, only to continue to support the team from the land that ultimately pushed them out.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

Only 3.2 beer was allowed in chain stores such as grocery stores. You had to go to an actual liquor store to get real beer. No, it's no longer in effect. 3.2 beer (or "near beer" as we used to call it), is a thing of the past (thank god).

Thanks for the update. I had figured it had to be a thing of the past given the legalization of marijuana.

[JAYNYC]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Lol -- are you serious though?

Denver is relatively close to the 'West Coast' compared to a city in the original colonies of the United States with Atlantic seaboard coastline -- True.

Am *I* serious? More like, are you???

You (for whatever reason) decided to chime in on a response I made to badrunner in which I stated that the only points Denver would score in a comparison to Atlanta (in my opinion) would be for Denver being relatively closer to California than Atlanta is with your unsolicited brilliant wisdom and insight that "Denver is nowhere close to California, it's well east of the continental divide. It's practically middle America aka - "fly-over" to those of us 'West Coasters'." Which had literally nothing to do with the point I made, which was the fact that Denver is much closer to California than Atlanta is to California (two states removed, as opposed to eight states removed).

Then, you follow up with your equally brilliant wisdom and insight that Denver is relatively close to the 'West Coast' compared to a city in the original colonies of the United States with Atlantic seaboard coastline", essentially agreeing that my original point was, in fact, 100% correct. Like what point were you ever trying to make in the first place?

I never said "Denver (or Colorado) is close to California". Simply cited its relative proximity to California in comparison to Atlanta's proximity to California would score points in Denver's favor, from my perspective.

It's an extremely elementary observation, not sure how you're struggling with it.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

I don't see how downtown Boulder could seem more vibrant than Downtown Denver on any hour of any day. I just don't see it. Maybe you were in the wrong place.

Anyway, this conversation is about why Denver is expensive. And that would have more to do with why there's so much demand to live here. And of course the 16th Street Mall would have nothing to do with why people live here since once you live here you're no longer a tourist. It's all about the walkable neighborhoods that surround downtown. And really, those are the only parts of the city that have become prohibitively expensive due to the dramatically increased demand for techies/yuppies/hipsters to live in such places. You can still find a cheep place to live around here if you're willing to live in the suburbs. I think, overall, the metropolis is still pretty cheap.

As for Denver's "hype," I keep hearing of such a thing - mostly in certain corners of the internet such as this, but it's hard to gauge what amount of hype there may be outside of Denver, when you're actually in Denver. I do know that when I lived in California -- not too long ago -- I sensed no Denver hype whatsoever. People mostly seemed to think of it as some podunk cow/oil town in the middle of flyover country and I found myself constantly defending my poor misunderstood hometown. Apparently Denver has abruptly started getting a ton of hype. Maybe the legal pot has something to do with it? It's hard for me to gauge it. It's quite possible Denver is over-hyped.

I hope it's not getting hyped nearly as much as Austin. If it is, I'm sorry. No, it doesn't deserve that much hype. (FTR I love Austin and all -- I think it's great, really -- but man I'm sick and fucking tired of hearing about it.)

My sister-in-law says half her friends from UW Madison are moving to Denver... that's the hype I'm talking about. Maybe it only exists in Wisconsin...

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Chef

By global standards nearly all major North American cities are incredibly diverse, including Denver. London, which is heralded as one of the most diverse cities in Europe is 70% white. On North American centered urbanism discussion sites, diversity has basically devolved into a sad demographics dick measuring contest. Majority minority cities are pretty rare outside of the US.

Well... I'd expect Europe to be mostly European. It is dominated by the indigenous ethnic groups. Only the Americas and Australia are mostly populated with transplant ethnic groups.

[JAYNYC]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

My sister-in-law says half her friends from UW Madison are moving to Denver... that's the hype I'm talking about. Maybe it only exists in Wisconsin...

I, too, know of several UW-Madison graduates (and Milwaukee area residents) who have moved, or are contemplating a move, to Denver.

No one else I know is contemplating a move to Denver (that I'm aware of).

Definitely seems like there's some Wisconsin-based Denver hype going on.

I also have one friend who relocated to Denver from San Francisco a couple years ago, and I think there might be a Bay Area-based hype going on, too, from what he tells me.