SAN ANTONIO | Projects and Construction

[sakyle04]

Am I the only person who has been watching the Austin Forum light up with one new announcement after another - and can say that I'm happy it's not happening in San Antonio?

Don't get me wrong, I am getting a little skyline envy but hearing about 500/sf prices at most of the DT condos makes me shudder. I hope that SA developers learn from it, build more towers in the 300/sf range and then we can celebrate too.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by sakyle04

Am I the only person who has been watching the Austin Forum light up with one new announcement after another - and can say that I'm happy it's not happening in San Antonio?

Don't get me wrong, I am getting a little skyline envy but hearing about 500/sf prices at most of the DT condos makes me shudder. I hope that SA developers learn from it, build more towers in the 300/sf range and then we can celebrate too.

Currently, there are only two proposals which will be priced at or above $500/sf (the T.Stacy tower and The Austonian). The remaining proposals and developments already under construction will be/are priced between $250 & $450/sf. There is plenty of demand out there! And current Austin residents make up only a fraction of the demand (less than half). Also, there is an increasing demand for units priced in the $250-350/sf range. Therefore, you will see more proposals and construction in this price range.

Even though downtown/central Austin has 43 proposed or under construction project (of five or more levels), I would guess that only 2/3 to 3/4 of them ever get off the ground.

[Complex01]

[QUOTE=sakyle04;2614937]Am I the only person who has been watching the Austin Forum light up with one new announcement after another - and can say that I'm happy it's not happening in San Antonio?[QUOTE]

I dont know, i am not happy that its not happening in San Antonio. I wish it were, cause there is such great potential and the prices dont really bother me. Oh well i just like tall buildings, and thats the bottom line. Build them up...

[tmathis]

The boom is coming for downtown SA.

[Trae]

When? I really wish it would happen instead of out in the suburbs.

[Chicago3rd]

Originally Posted by GoldenBoot

Even though downtown/central Austin has 43 proposed or under construction project (of five or more levels), I would guess that only 2/3 to 3/4 of them ever get off the ground.

Come on.....be fair. How many 5level or higher have been proposed for the Central SA/Downtown area? How does that compare to your own numbers that 28 to 32 will only be built in Austin? How does a city with hardly a great downtown (Congress and 7th Street are great) go into making what looks like a fantastic new downtown...and how does a city like San Antonio with a great downtown...not get more development downtown? Backwards thinking is my answer.

[jaga185]

Demand. In San Antonio, its there, it's just no one wants to get their feet wet just yet. Everyone is playing it safe.

[sakyle04]

Demand. In San Antonio, its there, it's just no one wants to get their feet wet just yet. Everyone is playing it safe.

I agree with that.

More than that, even, is the spread out nature of San Antonio business hubs. I think it was Kevin who mentioned that Austin didn't have any talls outside of DT. I think that helps to concentrate Austin's business DT.

In addition, San Antonio has quite a few office towers of 8-15 stories along 410 and out I-10, which changes the complexion/identity of DT IMHO.

DT Austin has the capitol and UT (and the lawyers and bankers that we have) and all the related industry that goes with it - and the large salaries that accompany them as well. SA has lawyers, bankers, and tourist workers DT and (as my friend who works on the 18th floor of the Weston tells me) the lawyers and bankers are very happy living insulated in Alamo Heights and Olmos Park. And the tourist industry workers...well, how many can afford a $275,000 condo?

For now, at least, it's just a different dynamic. As usual, I think we'll be a little late to the party but we'll have our own boom evetually.

[kornbread]

It is a different dynamic and the local economies are a big influence, but I believe a lot has to do with city leadership. The city of Austin had planned for this type of activity. They wanted to make downtown vibrant. They spent a few years building up the infrastructure to make it attractive to business, then they offered incentives to relocate. They also have a stated goal of having 25,000 residents downtown.

I've also noticed that Austin's city council seems more cohesive with really no bickering. It seemed as if the politics in SA was pretty dirty for a while, which must have made it really hard to get anything accomplished.

It would be nice to see SA have a similar goal with its downtown. I can see things that are in play today spurring some development, but it may take 10 years. That's about how long ago Austin started down their road.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by jaga185

Demand. In San Antonio, its there, it's just no one wants to get their feet wet just yet. Everyone is playing it safe.

Then why wait if there is money to be made? Real estate development is a risky business. And a developer cannot "play it safe," they must play it smart! You're either in the game or out of it. Plus, as I mentioned before, if there's money to be had, then go get it (i.e., if there is demand, why not supply a product for that demand)?

[jaga185]

^^^ Because those who have already began their construction on new condo units, are selling out rather quickly, so their is proof that demand is there. It's just the marketing about the rapid pace is not quite large. You do not really hear how fast they are selling.

So others are not quite sure if they want to go for it or not.

[sakyle04]

Okay, I hear what people are saying about demand.

But you cannot compare Austin and San Antonio. Apples and oranges...

How many high-rise condo units does San Antonio currently have? Quite a few if you start to think about it...

20 story tower in Medical Center
Olmos Park Tower
The white tower next to Incarnate Word
Two others along Broadway (The Carlyle and another...)
La Cascada I and II
(Among others I might be missing)

And now, under contruction:
Vidorra
The Broadway

That's a lot of high-rise condos, hundreds of units!!!! And that is probably a big reason why our residential building boom is more likely going to be a slow build-up.

San Antonio already has a lot of high-rise options, so we are more likely to see a little bit of an uptown build-up along with a slow DT build-up. (Don't forget the Museum Reach of River North and the likely addition of lots of mid-rise residential there...)

Austin doesn't have anything in high-rise living established so they can just build and build until their market becomes satisfied.

Go look at MYSA.com and check the real estate section for condo listings. There are quite a few on the market above $500,000 with spectacular views and all of the amenities that the new Austin condos have. They just happened to be built before DT living was all the rage.

Have faith, y'all. San Antonio will not be completely left behind. Different market, different dynamic. Have patience.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by jaga185

^^^ Because those who have already began their construction on new condo units, are selling out rather quickly, so their is proof that demand is there. It's just the marketing about the rapid pace is not quite large. You do not really hear how fast they are selling.

So others are not quite sure if they want to go for it or not.

Individual real estate developers/development companies are not siloed from communicating with each other (i.e., on their own little island). It is a very close-knit group of people. Everyone pretty much knows what everybody else is doing long before you or I may hear about it in some type of news media. It’s a “life-or-death” responsibility for individuals in the real estate industry to know what’s going on in their market(s).

Timing is everything in this industry. Developers don’t have the relative luxury of “waiting” or being timid. They “eat what the kill” and if there is prey out there, they’re going to find a way to “kill” it or they will starve. In pretty much any city in the world, if there is huge demand for a specific segment of the real estate market (in this case luxury high-rise condos in SA), then local, national and even international developers will take note and act accordingly.

Additionally, the rate at which a particular condo development is "selling out" is not necessarily news worthy to most media outlets. This may be especially true when projects are not really “selling out” at the moment, but, rather, the rush to reserve a unit is matching or exceeding the expectations of the particular project’s developer (which is what’s currently happening in Austin & SA). Reservations do not, nor never will, guarantee actual buyers.

News media outlets are not going to provide an “update” service for the city. Therefore, in most cases, if you don't hear anything, then there's pretty much nothing of general public interest to report. You’re more likely to see a story entitled: “The luxury high-rise condo market in SA is heating up;” than one which says: “Vidorra is 67% reserved.”

[GoldenBoot]

I have no doubt that there is demand in SA!! But, at what level, I don’t know. And I agree with sakyle04 in saying: comparing SA to Austin (and visa versa) is like comparing apples to oranges. They are two very different markets.

[KevinFromTexas]

Originally Posted by sakyle04

Austin doesn't have anything in high-rise living established so they can just build and build until their market becomes satisfied.

Actually, for the record Austin does already have a good number of residential buildings in and around downtown, and these aren't all dorms tied to UT either. It should also be noted that there are two different types of dorms. One where you have them actually owned and operated by the University of Texas and are located on the campus, then private dorms which are off campus but are still near the UT area. West Campus and The Drag area in particular are where you can find the larger/taller dorms that are not affliliated with the university.

Some of our first residential highrises came as early as 1960. And for 10 years from 1972 until 1982 our tallest building was a residential building, (a dorm near UT). I didn't bother listing anything below 10 floors, although there are several.

Dormitory properties

Dobie Center - 367 feet - 29 floors - 1972, (dorm on The Drag).
The Castillian - 237 feet - 23 floors - 1969, (dorm on The Drag).
Jester Center West Tower - 14 floors - 1970, (located on the southern end of the UT Campus).
Jester Center East Tower - 10 floors - 1970 - The Jester Center complex is the largest university residential complex in the nation with 3,000 students living in the two main towers and surrounding lowrises. For years it was the largest building in Austin - even larger than the Capitol in square footage.
University Towers, (three 10-story towers dormitory towers located in West Campus).

Non-dormitory buildings, just residential

Austin Hilton Convention Center Hotel/Fifth Street Tower - 377 feet - 31 floors - 2004
Westgate Tower - 261 feet - 25 floors - 1967
Austin City Lofts - 176 feet - 14 floors - 2004
The Plaza on Republic Square - 174 feet - 12 floors - 2002
Rebekuh Baines Johnson Tower - 175 feet - 15 floors - 1971, (assisted living tower).
Cambridge Tower - 160 feet - 15 floors - 1965
Towers of Town Lake - 150 feet - 13 floors - 1983
Lakeside Apartments - 147 feet - 12 floors - 1967
Milago Condominiums - 142 feet - 13 floors - 2006
The Nokonah - 126 feet - 11 floors - 2002
Penthouse Condominiums - 122 feet - 11 floors - 1964

[sakyle04]

Actually, for the record Austin does already have a good number of residential buildings in and around downtown, and these aren't all dorms tied to UT either.

No offense, Kevin...But until the Nokonah and the Plaza opened there really wasn't anything of this new age of luxury DT living. We can list assisted living facilities, dorms (private or public - the same for our discussion), and building like the Penthouse, but that's not what we're talking about. I didn't mean to offend you as a proud Austinite...but if you wanted to sink $350,000 into a high-rise 10+ home in Austin, your options were limited. (Now, you guys are blowing up and the tables are turning...)

Building, Floors, Unit for Sale Price on MySa.com

200 Patterson 13 ($950,000)
La Cascada 12 ($1,050,000)
Towers at Park Lane 23
Air Force Village I 16
Majestic Tower 18
Olmos Tower Condos 15 ($695,000)
Aurora Apartments 10
Maverick Building 11
Exchange Building 10
Wurzbach Towers 23
Enclave at 1550 22
Park View Apartments 16
4001 Condos 14
Villa Tranchese Apartments 12
Granada Apartments 12
Wedgewood Apartments 12
Carlyle Condos 12
Robt E Lee 10

The point of my list was to show that lists can be silly (including yours). Half of these high-rise living options are either apartments or crackhouses or elderly facilities or plain-old ugly monstosities...just like on your list.

When I lived in Austin, I had to dream of living in the Towers of Town Lake. That was really the premiere choice. Now, thankfully, I would have a ton of options.

[KevinFromTexas]

Ha, my list worked. I was hoping someone would come on and post San Antonio's residential highrises so I could check to see if they were all added to Emporis. Thanks! Seriously, sakyle04, I know what yuo're talking about.

[JDSII]

NCL is a sham

[sakyle04]

Does anyone have any news about Piazza San Lorenzo?

I have to think that a project being silent for so long is bad news...

I am hoping that someone around here knows something I don't and can give me the good news that a beautiful 10-story residence will soon replace the old Solo Serve building.

http://www.piazzasanlorenzo.com/developer.php

[sakyle04]

Bueller? Anyone?