Lower Mainland Population Thread

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by mcj

Most of Surrey's population growth has come from SFHs replacing forests (and more recently rowhomes). There's plenty of nimbyism to be had once they start trying to bring density into SFH neighbourhoods.

This is the city that won't allow cannabis shops to open afterall. Not to mention the intentional lack of nightlife...

Nimbys gonna nimby... *sigh*

To be fair there's been a fair amount of planned density being brought into Surrey Central and the town centres. Outside of that well ... it's the same as anywhere around here.

Both Surrey and Richmond are 'just say no' when it comes to cannabis stores. It seems Delta has quite a few though - from Nov 2022

The Tilbury application is last of nine cannabis store applications received by the city before council adopted a moratorium on new proposals. The other eight have all been approved over the past 12 months.

The first cannabis store in Delta (Seed & Stone, located at 616 Chester Rd. on Annacis Island) was approved in November of last year, followed in January of 2022 by an Inspired Cannabis location at Delta Shoppers Mall (120 – 8077 Scott Rd.).

A third application, this time for a government-run BC Cannabis Store in Scottsdale Centre, was approved by council on April 25.

On May 16, council directed staff to not accept more cannabis dispensary applications “until further notice” while those still in stream make their way through the approval process.

Later that month, council approved two stores in Tsawwassen: Imagine Cannabis at 100 – 1179 56th St., and Queensborough Cannabis at 1274 56th St.

Then, on July 4, council gave the go-ahead to an Imagine Cannabis location in Ladner (5150 Ladner Trunk Rd.).

Two North Delta stores were approved on July 25: a Queensborough Cannabis in Scott 72 shopping centre (7227 Scott Rd.) and Kushi Cannabis Co., attached to the Tidewaters Pub and Liquor Store (10190 River Rd.).

Of the eight cannabis stores approved so far, only four are currently open for business: Seed & Stone on Annacis Island, Inspired Cannabis in North Delta, and both Imagine Cannabis locations (Tsawwassen and Ladner).

Why is it the entire region seems content to have almost all the nightlife in Vancouver???

[memememe76]

If you were in India on holiday, I wouldn't be surprised saying you're from Surrey would conjure just as much recognition as saying you're from Vancouver.

I always say I am from Vancouver, even though I lived in Surrey.

There is also the issue of size. On a Saturday or Sunday morning, driving from Guildford to Fraser is really quick. What, 12-15 minutes? Or Strawberry Hill to Fraser? Even if traffic never existed, driving between San Francisco and San Jose is still a hefty drive. Even the Skytrain between Scott Road and Joyce is like 20 minutes? Metro Vancouver does not have a ton of geographic size.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Why is it the entire region seems content to have almost all the nightlife in Vancouver???

You're starting to clue in to how NIMBY Surrey actually is. Nightlife is perceived as an issue of "public safety" in Surrey, and they won't allow any in their backyard. Doug McCallum and Dianne Watts ensured that no new nightlife opened in Surrey over the last 30 years. There used to be some, but it's mostly all gone now except the JRG pubs.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Vancouver wasn't really a suburb of New West in the sense it is understood today. People didn't settle in Granville, as it was known, to work in New West.

Yes that would have been quite the commute back in those days LoL 😆

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

What about San Jose? Sure, San Jose may not be the tourist magnet that SF is but it has its own self-contained economy as the centre of Silicon Valley and it even stole SF's NFL team. San Jose even has its own suburbs in Palo Alto, Cupertino, etc.

Technically San Jose had nothing to do with the Niners leaving San Francisco.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Nimbys gonna nimby... *sigh*

To be fair there's been a fair amount of planned density being brought into Surrey Central and the town centres. Outside of that well ... it's the same as anywhere around here.

Both Surrey and Richmond are 'just say no' when it comes to cannabis stores. It seems Delta has quite a few though - from Nov 2022



Why is it the entire region seems content to have almost all the nightlife in Vancouver???

It’s just the attitude towards nightlife in this whole region. Cities have been conditioned to fear them and their clueless, residential focused zoning doesn’t help any. The only reason Vancouver leads the way in this regard is because it’s own scene dates back a century and was well established long ago. If Vancouver was starting today, the nightlife here would be even less fun than it already is.

That and the inbread planning community here doesn’t help either. They desperately need some new blood, but I doubt that happens.

On a somewhat positive note, Richmond has somewhat bucked the trend and has things to occur organically and without much interference and a burgeoning restaurant/lounge/nightclub district which is really blossoming.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

That and the inbread planning community here doesn’t help either. They desperately need some new blood, but I doubt that happens

I assume the sourdough planners you are referring to are in the suburban municipalities? The last four Chief Planners in Vancouver came from outside the City - the previous one, and the current one came from the US, (although the current one was very briefly deputy, before she was promoted).

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Technically San Jose had nothing to do with the Niners leaving San Francisco.

Yes, San Francisco fumbled the bag and Santa Clara provided some friendly tax breaks. But my point was that the 49ers didn't just move to a suburb of San Fran; the team moved to a whole new metro area.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I assume the sourdough planners you are referring to are in the suburban municipalities? The last four Chief Planners in Vancouver came from outside the City - the previous one, and the current one came from the US, (although the current one was very briefly deputy, before she was promoted).

Sourdough planners? LoL that’s a good one. Will have to use it sometime.

Yes I’m aware they came from the US, but if you look into their backgrounds, all but one “fit the mold” here for Vancouver. Only 1 really fell outside of that.
They didn’t last long

Heck another Vancouver planner came from the same
position in a city that is much friendlier to nightlife than we are and the person came here, put on his Birkenstocks, and fit right here as chief Killjoy. He was called out by his fellow planners during a get together so where you hail from doesn’t always mean much.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Yes, San Francisco fumbled the bag and Santa Clara provided some friendly tax breaks. But my point was that the 49ers didn't just move to a suburb of San Fran; the team moved to a whole new metro area.

True. Sports teams (and business in general) will always flow to more friendly jurisdiction. There’s a lesson in there somewhere

[djmk]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

It’s just the attitude towards nightlife in this whole region. Cities have been conditioned to fear them and their clueless, residential focused zoning doesn’t help any. The only reason Vancouver leads the way in this regard is because it’s own scene dates back a century and was well established long ago. If Vancouver was starting today, the nightlife here would be even less fun than it already is.

That and the inbread planning community here doesn’t help either. They desperately need some new blood, but I doubt that happens.

On a somewhat positive note, Richmond has somewhat bucked the trend and has things to occur organically and without much interference and a burgeoning restaurant/lounge/nightclub district which is really blossoming.

It's not just "nightlife" but many forms of cultural amenities.

Theaters to see plays or live music, comedy clubs, art galleries, etc. And if they do exist, they are owned by the municipality, nowhere near nice restaurants, attached to high schools or community centers or city hall, and devoid of anything cool.

there is no Rickshaw or Vogue or any of those types of venues outside Vancouver... (well maybe a couple in North Van or new west)

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by djmk

It's not just "nightlife" but many forms of cultural amenities.

Theaters to see plays or live music, comedy clubs, art galleries, etc. And if they do exist, they are owned by the municipality, nowhere near nice restaurants, attached to high schools or community centers or city hall, and devoid of anything cool.

there is no Rickshaw or Vogue or any of those types of venues outside Vancouver... (well maybe a couple in North Van or new west)

Absolutely Surreys performance arts centre is attached to a high school and nowhere near the Civic Center, where should be. That’s just one example.
Surrey is also looking possibly building an arena. As of now, the preferred spot is an isolated location, again not in their civic centre where it should be. You put those two venues in the proper location, the nice restaurants, bars, hotels etc will follow in short order and in an instant you have a distinct, independent vibrancy that has the capacity to forge its own identify.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Absolutely Surreys performance arts centre is attached to a high school and nowhere near the Civic Center, where should be. That’s just one example.
Surrey is also looking possibly building an arena. As of now, the preferred spot is an isolated location, again not in their civic centre where it should be. You put those two venues in the proper location, the nice restaurants, bars, hotels etc will follow in short order and in an instant you have a distinct, independent vibrancy that has the capacity to forge its own identify.

To be fair, the performing arts centre is near the old civic centre, which was also in the middle of nowhere.

I'm pretty sure the stadium idea is dead with McCallum (unless you're referring to another arena I'm unaware of), they're on to bigger and better things such as continuing to bicker about and switch directions on the policing transition for another 4 years

A lot of people mocked McCallum for that stadium idea, 60k was certainly too big, but something a quarter of the size that could be used to host shows/concerts/festivals, would have made a lot of sense.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

True. Sports teams (and business in general) will always flow to more friendly jurisdiction. There’s a lesson in there somewhere

Don't give tax breaks to organizations that pay employees millions of dollars?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by mcj

A lot of people mocked McCallum for that stadium idea, 60k was certainly too big, but something a quarter of the size that could be used to host shows/concerts/festivals, would have made a lot of sense.

To compete with Langley Events Centre? I'm not sure the area needs 2 of those.

[GenWhy?]

Be interesting to see, at these population rates to see at least 2 metro WHL teams.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Don't give tax breaks to organizations that pay employees millions of dollars?

Ya if only the world worked that way. But unfortunately it doesn’t. Or we can be like here and subsidize all sorts of wacky “programs” and pet projects that come directly from the taxpayers pockets. That’s much better.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by mcj

To be fair, the performing arts centre is near the old civic centre, which was also in the middle of nowhere.

I'm pretty sure the stadium idea is dead with McCallum (unless you're referring to another arena I'm unaware of), they're on to bigger and better things such as continuing to bicker about and switch directions on the policing transition for another 4 years

A lot of people mocked McCallum for that stadium idea, 60k was certainly too big, but something a quarter of the size that could be used to host shows/concerts/festivals, would have made a lot of sense.

What old civic centre? LoL

Stuff like the old Surrey City Hall were literally in the middle of nowhere.

And no I wasn’t referring to the crazy stadium proposal from earlier this year. I was referring to the arena study that called for an arena of 5-10,000 seats.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Don't give tax breaks to organizations that pay employees millions of dollars?

Sometimes when cities give tax breaks to sports franchises or subsidize stadium construction it amounts to a vanity project that never breaks even.

But don't throw the good out with the bad. Sure, some cities build open air football stadiums that can only be used for half the year. In that case, you might as well light money on fire. But some stadiums are regularly booked with hockey then basketball then a concert then hockey then a conference back-to-back-to-back-to-back on a regular basis. Not only can those stadiums break even on their own, but with all the neighbourhood-level economic activity a large sporting or cultural event generates those stadiums can be a coup for the local economy.

Some of the key attributes that ensure a profitable stadium include:

• In a best-case scenario get private interests to pay for it. That way the city gets all of the positive externalities but doesn't have to incur debt.
• Make damn sure the stadium will have a permanent tenant that has at least 30 to 40 events per year. In an ideal world the stadium would have multiple tenants such as an NHL and PLL team, or an NBA and WNBA team.
• Make sure the stadium is flexible for a variety of uses. I don't mean build a crappy dual purpose football and baseball stadium, but make sure you arena has all of the capabilities conferences, concerts, speaking tours, and exhibitions look for.
• Locate the stadium in a local commercial district, or build a new one around the stadium. It is such a wasted opportunity that the L.A. Dodgers and the Saskatoon Rush and the Kansas City Chiefs all play in stadiums surrounded by surface parking lots. Put your stadiums near downtown or another commercial district where those thousands of fans can pour out of the stadium and spend money at local bars, restaurants, casinos, hotels, or shops.

And I wouldn't be doing my job as a sports fan if I didn't point out the non-economic benefits a local professional sports team can bring. It is unquestionable that having the Trail Blazers gives thousands of Portland residents a common identity. And when everything aligns perfectly and the Canucks win the Cup, you will never see the city more united behind one cause.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by djmk

It's not just "nightlife" but many forms of cultural amenities.

Theaters to see plays or live music, comedy clubs, art galleries, etc. And if they do exist, they are owned by the municipality, nowhere near nice restaurants, attached to high schools or community centers or city hall, and devoid of anything cool.

there is no Rickshaw or Vogue or any of those types of venues outside Vancouver... (well maybe a couple in North Van or new west)

Exactly. It would be nice to be able to go to a few of those types of events outside of Vancouver - and to have some of them stay open until *gasp* 11pm. As is it feels like most places are shut down for the night and people are home by 7pm.

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

And no I wasn’t referring to the crazy stadium proposal from earlier this year. I was referring to the arena study that called for an arena of 5-10,000 seats.

The only 'arena' I can remember being proposed in Surrey is in Bear Creek Park but it's a lot smaller than that.