Ontario Highways

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Okay I'm disappointed too that it isn't in his priority to make North Bay Route 6 shovel-ready.

But look at something like Nickel Belt. It is just reliably orange. Wow. (Yet the freeway between Coniston and Markstay is nowhere near shovel ready. I wonder why. )
I'm actually surprised that Algoma - Manitoulin was red for a bit. Yea, more could have been done...

I still think it's better than orange though.

Lol, I'm unintentionally turning this into an NDP-bashing session.

It should not matter who is voted in a particular riding as to what they get.

[Loco101]

There are currently three Northern Ontario MPPs who are PC and on the government side and ALL THREE are cabinet ministers.

Greg Rickford - Kenora-Rainy River

Ross Romano - Sault Ste Marie

Vic Fedeli - Nipissing

I really don't know if the three of them are having much influence on highway funding.

[Dengler Avenue]

I don't know if Rickford's responsible for the current obstacle (consultation issues?) in the twinning project, tbh.
I've never heard the other two talk about highways in their area, so to speak...
Maybe Jeff Yurek (Highway 3 twinning, though it's only remotely close to his riding), John Yakabuski (Highway 417 extension) and Caroline Mulroney (Bradford Bypass) have taken most of the highway funding?
I don't know either. Now it just seems that the political explanation isn't holding much water either...

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

There are currently three Northern Ontario MPPs who are PC and on the government side and ALL THREE are cabinet ministers.

Greg Rickford - Kenora-Rainy River

Ross Romano - Sault Ste Marie

Vic Fedeli - Nipissing

I really don't know if the three of them are having much influence on highway funding.

Lets go back to the Liberal government...

David Orazietti - SSM

Rick Bartolucci/Glenn Thibeault - Sudbury

Bill Mauro - Thunder Bay-Atikokan

Michael Gravelle - Thunder Bay-Superior North

Not much got done with them.

I'd say the only thing the existing PCs have done was get the ONR under the MTO, but that is not road related.

Northern ON always elects some of the governing party to Queen's Park, yet not much gets done here.

[Dengler Avenue]

Northern ON always elects some of the governing party to Queen's Park, yet not much gets done here.

Like I said, flip something like Nickel Belt and Cochrane - James Bay to red, then we will talk.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Like I said, flip something like Nickel Belt and Cochrane - James Bay to red, then we will talk.

We used to have an NDP government in charge of Ontario. Why flip it?

[Dengler Avenue]

Maybe Queen's Park really considers its job done once 400 goes to Sudbury......

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Maybe Queen's Park really considers its job done once 400 goes to Sudbury......

If that were the case... why is the 400 not to Sudbury yet?

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

If that were the case... why is the 400 not to Sudbury yet?

Here's why:
(1) Highway 11 wasn't twinned all the way to North Bay when Rick Bartolucci started advocating for the extension of Highway 69. The former has lots of towns (on average, one every 15 km, between Gravenhurtst and North Bay, in fact) along the way but the latter has nothing outside of Parry Sound (between Highway 93 and Highway 17).
Hence, now that I think about it, it's not entirely accurate to say that the harder terrain along Highway 69 is why it's progressing slowly. Terrain along Highway 11 is only slightly better thanks to the farmland around Powassan (and pockets elsewhere), and it's really bad south of Huntsville (especially with that slope north of Highway 141).

(2) Have you already forgotten the complexity of negotiation with FN's? Working with Wahta took like what? 6 years? That was only one FN too. You can imagine the timeframe now that we are talking to 3 FN's.
Ps: This is also why Highway 17 twinning west of Kenora is stalled. (I thought the memorandum of understanding signed 2 years ago would mean that consultation was done...)

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Here's why:
(1) Highway 11 wasn't twinned all the way to North Bay when Rick Bartolucci started advocating for the extension of Highway 69. The former has lots of towns (on average, one every 15 km, between Gravenhurtst and North Bay, in fact) along the way but the latter has nothing outside of Parry Sound (between Highway 93 and Highway 17).
Hence, now that I think about it, it's not entirely accurate to say that the harder terrain along Highway 69 is why it's progressing slowly. Terrain along Highway 11 is only slightly better thanks to the farmland around Powassan (and pockets elsewhere), and it's really bad south of Huntsville (especially with that slope north of Highway 141).

(2) Have you already forgotten the complexity of negotiation with FN's? Working with Wahta took like what? 6 years? That was only one FN too. You can imagine the timeframe now that we are talking to 3 FN's.
Ps: This is also why Highway 17 twinning west of Kenora is stalled. (I thought the memorandum of understanding signed 2 years ago would mean that consultation was done...)

1) Huntsville was the end of the 4 lanes of highway 11 for the better part of 20+ years.

2)The agreements with the FNs should have been a priority.

[Dengler Avenue]

(1) I thought Highway 11 was a super 2 from Gravenhurt to Huntsville in the 70's...?
(2) That's what's being worked on...?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

(1) I thought Highway 11 was a super 2 from Gravenhurt to Huntsville in the 70's...?
(2) That's what's being worked on...?

1) Maybe, but I am younger than that, and for my lifetime, it has been divided to Huntsville.

2) Who knows.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Lets go back to the Liberal government...

David Orazietti - SSM

Rick Bartolucci/Glenn Thibeault - Sudbury

Bill Mauro - Thunder Bay-Atikokan

Michael Gravelle - Thunder Bay-Superior North

Not much got done with them.

I'd say the only thing the existing PCs have done was get the ONR under the MTO, but that is not road related.

Northern ON always elects some of the governing party to Queen's Park, yet not much gets done here.

There was the 4-laning of Hwy 17 between Thunder Bay to Pass Lake and the sections near Nipigon. Also Hwy 17 from Echo Bay to Sault Ste Marie.

Of course there is Hwy 69 between Sudbury and going 40-50 Kms South on it.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Loco101

There was the 4-laning of Hwy 17 between Thunder Bay to Pass Lake and the sections near Nipigon. Also Hwy 17 from Echo Bay to Sault Ste Marie.

Of course there is Hwy 69 between Sudbury and going 40-50 Kms South on it.

And in that same time, what was done in Southern ON? I can think of at least 6 major highway extensions.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

And in that same time, what was done in Southern ON? I can think of at least 6 major highway extensions.

Name everything that you can think of between 2003 and now, put them in the following categories and include length:

(1) 2 lanes expanded to 4 lanes (including new alignment);
(2) 4 lanes to more (including new alignment);
(3) Others.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Name everything that you can think of between 2003 and now, put them in the following categories and include length:

(1) 2 lanes expanded to 4 lanes (including new alignment);
(2) 4 lanes to more (including new alignment);
(3) Others.

How about the list of new ROW construction.

404 north of Newmarket
407 East of Pickering/Brock Rd
412
418

How many km of new highway is that?
How many km of NEW ROW has been built in Northern ON?

As far as 2 lanes to 4 lanes, there has been some, but not nearly as much as new ROW in just the GTA.

[Djeffery]

And 3 of those 4 are tolled. How many tolls in the north? How much traffic is there in the south compared to the north?

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

How about the list of new ROW construction.

404 north of Newmarket
407 East of Pickering/Brock Rd
412
418

How many km of new highway is that?
How many km of NEW ROW has been built in Northern ON?

As far as 2 lanes to 4 lanes, there has been some, but not nearly as much as new ROW in just the GTA.

Between 2011 and 2016, the population of northern Ontario grew slightly by 0.6 per cent between 2011 and 2016. Its share of provincial population fell to 5.8 per cent from 6.0 per cent in 2011.
https://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy...cenhi16-1.html

Between 2006 and 2011, the population of northern Ontario decreased by 1.4 per cent between 2006 and 2011. Its share of provincial population fell to 6.0 per cent from 6.5 per cent in 2006.
https://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy...cenhi11-1.html

But despite there being less people to pay for northern highways in Ontario today than there were in 2006, there are more four-lane divided highways up north and leading to the north than there were 14 years ago.

There is more highway construction in the south because that's where the growth is happening. Probably not shockingly, the province spends most of its tax revenue in areas where the people paying the taxes actually live.

[Dengler Avenue]

There is more highway construction in the south because that's where the growth is happening. Probably not shockingly, the province spends most of its tax revenue in areas where the people paying the taxes actually live.

Please convince the man that royalties from resource extraction alone aren't enough for Northern Ontario to sustain itself if it's to secede from the rest of Ontario. (If what I just wrote is true, that is.) Thanks in advance.

If we're to extend Highway 417 to SSM, it seems appropriate to put most sections along Lake Huron Shore on new alignment. Then we can put a toll on it and ban trucks from the current Highway 17 (local delivery excepted) to recurpurate costs for rock blasting.

=====
It may look like north v south at first, but careful examination will tell a slightly more complicated story. What about Kitchener - Guelph Expressway? What about Morriston - Puslinch Bypass? What about Essex - Leamington Highway? What about Brant Road (known as Brantford Highway in Cambridge)? People in SWO have been waiting for decades for those too.
Then there's also the Bradford Bypass because the traffic lights on Green Lane (East Gwillimbury) aren't well synchronized...

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Between 2011 and 2016, the population of northern Ontario grew slightly by 0.6 per cent between 2011 and 2016. Its share of provincial population fell to 5.8 per cent from 6.0 per cent in 2011.
https://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy...cenhi16-1.html

Between 2006 and 2011, the population of northern Ontario decreased by 1.4 per cent between 2006 and 2011. Its share of provincial population fell to 6.0 per cent from 6.5 per cent in 2006.
https://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy...cenhi11-1.html

But despite there being less people to pay for northern highways in Ontario today than there were in 2006, there are more four-lane divided highways up north and leading to the north than there were 14 years ago.

There is more highway construction in the south because that's where the growth is happening. Probably not shockingly, the province spends most of its tax revenue in areas where the people paying the taxes actually live.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Please convince the man that royalties from resource extraction alone aren't enough for Northern Ontario to sustain itself if it's to secede from the rest of Ontario. (If what I just wrote is true, that is.) Thanks in advance.

If we're to extend Highway 417 to SSM, it seems appropriate to put most sections along Lake Huron Shore on new alignment. Then we can put a toll on it and ban trucks from the current Highway 17 (local delivery excepted) to recurpurate costs for rock blasting.

=====
It may look like north v south at first, but careful examination will tell a slightly more complicated story. What about Kitchener - Guelph Expressway? What about Morriston - Puslinch Bypass? What about Essex - Leamington Highway? What about Brant Road (known as Brantford Highway in Cambridge)? People in SWO have been waiting for decades for those too.
Then there's also the Bradford Bypass because the traffic lights on Green Lane (East Gwillimbury) aren't well synchronized...

Let's say that all money the province collects stays within the Region/District/RM,etc. Sudbury and Timmins would have better highways than Toronto. The Resource sector is what keeps the province in the black.