[Halifax] 5515 Cogswell (at Gottingen) | ? m | 10 fl | U/C

[Jonovision]

Originally Posted by SouthPawLaw

I feel this will be the heart of most of the problems with the center plan, for all the good it is doing.

That is not an entirely accurate quote as it was me who asked the developer for a taller building on the site at the meeting. However, they then went on to explain that the dimensions of the site did not make that feasible.

[OldDartmouthMark]

In this case, though I would prefer to see a slightly taller building, maybe with another 5 floors set back a little from the others, all in all it's not bad as it is.

I like the curved corner and white cladding as it appears in the rendering - to my eyes it's not entirely unlike (though admittedly not as nice as) the Curve on South Park, which seems to have consensus as being a good design.

Regarding other points in the article, I am in disagreement with the committee, who asked:

why he didn’t add more vibrant colours, include more public art, as well as other concerns.

Given what I've seen around the city, we have a lot of recent buildings with multiple 'vibrant' colours, or variations in cladding, that are going to age quickly, and probably be considered 'tacky' or otherwise unattractive in a few years. I'm disappointed that the Design Advisory Committee doesn't seem to understand this. "Public Art" is so dubious in that most of it turns out to be cheap junk plunked down in order to get some design concessions, even though sometimes it does turn out to be quite nice (Queen's Marque comes to mind) - in this case I can only see it cluttering up the design, rather than improving it. Again disappointed that some members in the committee seem to not be able to see this - it's almost like they simply have have a standard checklist that they go through without actually considering the design, location, and context of the building they are reviewing.

IMHO, the architect was right on with his response:

“We tried to create a building that was timeless and that won’t look dated in 20 or 40 or 60 years,” he said.

Unless the article is misquoting, the statement:

He also said the lot’s small size makes it tough to put up a taller building. The city has rules about how far back from the property line tall buildings must be, and on this lot “you are really left with nothing to build on.”

...really makes it sound like the architect's hands are tied to creatively add some height without it becoming impractical.

In defence of the committee, though, I do think the suggestions of more height (if it were reasonably possible), along with better materials and lighting are good ones. Materials are hard to judge by renderings, which are optimized to make the project look as good, or better, than it ever could be... so 'better materials' is almost a given for a highly visible location like this one.

Above are just my half-baked opinions... no offence intended to any of the participants. Just giving out my actual thoughts with no filter applied.

[Keith P.]

Mark, your half-baked opinions are equally if not more valid than those of the members of the DRC or HRM Planning, which often seem only quarter-baked at best. After all, it is the latter group who decided that a wider, short and thick-looking structure is preferable to a taller, more graceful one.

[someone123]

“We tried to create a building that was timeless and that won’t look dated in 20 or 40 or 60 years,” he said.

I'd say though that monochromatic buildings with this style of cladding are the current style and they were rare in the past and kind of unnatural looking. You can add random colour, sure, but you could also use high quality materials with a warmer appearance like brick, stone, or Muntz metal. Or organic forms and detailing in more modern materials, like patterns cut into metal screens.

That said I think this one may end up being better than it seems in the long run. The renderings are done with a perspective that exaggerates how imposing it will look in person and in the long run there might be more new buildings around there like something to replace the Staples. And maybe there will be something on the curved corners of this building when it's constructed that isn't shown in the rendering. I could see this corner feeling a bit like Spring Garden Road where there are lots of medium sized buildings and none of them stand out much.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I'd say though that monochromatic buildings with this style of cladding are the current style and they were rare in the past and kind of unnatural looking. You can add random colour, sure, but you could also use high quality materials with a warmer appearance like brick, stone, or Muntz metal. Or organic forms and detailing in more modern materials, like patterns cut into metal screens.

That said I think this one may end up being better than it seems in the long run. The renderings are done with a perspective that exaggerates how imposing it will look in person and in the long run there might be more new buildings around there like something to replace the Staples. And maybe there will be something on the curved corners of this building when it's constructed that isn't shown in the rendering. I could see this corner feeling a bit like Spring Garden Road where there are lots of medium sized buildings and none of them stand out much.

Honestly, I don't think it's so much of a case of whether it's a 'current style' or not (though arguably monochrome isn't really a new concept), but how the aesthetic will age. Of course there is a whole lot of subjectivity involved, but IMHO a monochromatic building will age much better than a building with multiple bright colours added for effect. Then it also depends on how it's done, as the Curve example that I used actually does have some multi coloured panels in it, but they are quite understated, and thus do not stand out or add a 'garish' appearance.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what they mean by "vibrant colours", but typically vibrant is used in the sense of making it stand out due to its brightness. So in that sense, again, I agree with the architect's statement (but don't disagree with your ideas on higher quality materials).

Of course not everybody has the same opinion about aesthetics, so there is no wrong answer here, I suppose...

[someone123]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Honestly, I don't think it's so much of a case of whether it's a 'current style' or not (though arguably monochrome isn't really a new concept), but how the aesthetic will age.

I think people are going to look back on circa 2020 architecture in Halifax and wonder why it was so repetitive and dull, with almost every building being grey/white with the odd black element. I believe these buildings have a distinctive style and aren't a reversion to timeless architectural principles (the closest we have to that is classical architecture).

Historically there have not been a lot of black and whilte buildings. Most architecture was in earth tones and wood, even in the 70's. And natural environments people live in tend not to have so much contrast or such extremes. Black and white (with gold etc.) is a "luxury" aesthetic that arguably is meant to look artificial.

I'm waiting for new architecture that isn't afraid of ornamentation and natural forms, and uses modern technology (e.g. CNC) to greater effect than what we saw in, say, the Art Nouveau period. Right now I think we have an unholy mix of leftover modernism and "value engineering".

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think people are going to look back on circa 2020 architecture in Halifax and wonder why it was so repetitive and dull, with almost every building being grey/white with the odd black element. I believe these buildings have a distinctive style and aren't a reversion to timeless architectural principles (the closest we have to that is classical architecture).

Historically there have not been a lot of black and whilte buildings. Most architecture was in earth tones and wood, even in the 70's. And natural environments people live in tend not to have so much contrast or such extremes. Black and white (with gold etc.) is a "luxury" aesthetic that arguably is meant to look artificial.

I'm waiting for new architecture that isn't afraid of ornamentation and natural forms, and uses modern technology (e.g. CNC) to greater effect than what we saw in, say, the Art Nouveau period. Right now I think we have an unholy mix of leftover modernism and "value engineering".

Without pulling examples, my recent recollection is that many buildings built in Halifax in the past decade often have something like 4 or 5 different colours and/or material selections that appear to be randomly scattered around the building, as though it was built from materials leftover from other projects. I don't see buildings like this being as much of a 2020 aesthetic in Halifax as those other disjointed examples that the committee appears to prefer.

This monochromatic treatment just happens to be white, but one could argue that many of the buildings built in the mid 20th century were built in the monochromatic style, even if the 'monochrome' is bare concrete... such as:

Source

Or:

Source

I would consider this to be included in that aesthetic as well:

Source

Anyhow, I was just stating an opinion. I don't feel the need to blow it up to be any larger than that.

I do like your idea about adding more decorative elements using new technologies. With emerging 3D printing technology, it will be much easier to produce complex one-off, or small-production elements without the need to have somebody hand-carve stone decorations, for example.

[someone123]

I mostly notice it because if I look at collages of construction updates it's a sea of black and white with lots of grey metal paneling. Sometimes coloured panels are mixed in which adds some distinction but it's pretty superficial (e.g. Velo 2 countertop-like material).

If you consider what South Park or the old bank towers were like there was a lot of variety in form, material, and colour, even though they were not all successful urbanism-wise. The old CBC building was fairly unique and each bank tower was quite different (mirror-like TD, red CIBC, black and white Royal Bank, blue 1801 Hollis, concrete BMO). In old Halifax there was a lot of carved stone, red brick, and wood painted different colours with fine detailing (not houses covered in sheets of plywood or whatever the analogue would be). If you look at Spring Garden Road now the Margaretta sort of has this monochrome look (with some blue, which seems to me like what the 5515 Cogswell architects might have been thinking of as a possibility), South Park Lofts does, and Curve/Pavilion do too. The Trillium has its seafoam green spandrel and red brick lower floors which today are the outdated style. I think something new could easily come along and people will look at South Park Lofts in a way similar to the Trillium, though the Trillium is a bit more jumbled as well.

Queen's Marque may be closer to "timeless" than 5515 Cogswell will be.

[Keith P.]

Some inspiration from the mid-20th century would be a good thing locally:



This lacks windows, but they could fit right in:


A veritable rainbow, works well on a short building:


Very ocean-like:


The white cladding on this proposal, combined with today's LED lighting tech, offers endless possibilities (hopefully executed more deftly than on The Vuze):

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I mostly notice it because if I look at collages of construction updates it's a sea of black and white with lots of grey metal paneling. Sometimes coloured panels are mixed in which adds some distinction but it's pretty superficial (e.g. Velo 2 countertop-like material).

If you consider what South Park or the old bank towers were like there was a lot of variety in form, material, and colour, even though they were not all successful urbanism-wise. The old CBC building was fairly unique and each bank tower was quite different (mirror-like TD, red CIBC, black and white Royal Bank, blue 1801 Hollis, concrete BMO). In old Halifax there was a lot of carved stone, red brick, and wood painted different colours with fine detailing (not houses covered in sheets of plywood or whatever the analogue would be). If you look at Spring Garden Road now the Margaretta sort of has this monochrome look (with some blue, which seems to me like what the 5515 Cogswell architects might have been thinking of as a possibility), South Park Lofts does, and Curve/Pavilion do too. The Trillium has its seafoam green spandrel and red brick lower floors which today are the outdated style. I think something new could easily come along and people will look at South Park Lofts in a way similar to the Trillium, though the Trillium is a bit more jumbled as well.

Queen's Marque may be closer to "timeless" than 5515 Cogswell will be.

OK, let me simplify to say that I think that this design


will age better than this design


In my mind, it's much more coherent and complimentary to its location, whereas the Marg. appears to have been designed by a number of committees who didn't talk to one another while the design was being created - and then each group pasted its piece of the design to the others at the end. Not my cup of tea, and IMHO, what I'm envisioning when I disagree with the design committee's comments.

All the other buildings I had posted pics of were just to illustrate to you why I don't think that monochromatic colour schemes are a new thing, since you brought up the monochrome thing as being indicative of '2020' architecture. That's all. They don't enter into the discussion otherwise.

Not saying I'm right on the everything, just saying what I think, and I can't be wrong on stating what I think because I know what I think...

[kph06]

It sounds like the crane here is due to go up next weekend:

HRM News Release

Road Closure – Gottingen Street

Posted: January 28, 2022 - 11:35 am

Location: Gottingen Street, from Portland Place to Cogswell Street

Date:Saturday, Feb. 5 and Sunday, Feb. 6

Time:7 a.m. until 4 p.m. daily

Work details: This is to facilitate the installation of the tower crane at 5515 Cogswell Street.

Traffic Impact: Local access will be maintained. Detour signage will be in place to guide drivers and pedestrians while work is underway. The west side sidewalk will be closed. Motorists should expect delays and are asked to use alternative routes whenever possible.

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by SouthPawLaw

I feel this will be the heart of most of the problems with the center plan, for all the good it is doing.

What good is it doing? Serious question.

[IanWatson]

Crane for this one went up over the weekend.

[kph06]

I think this is the same crane that was on King's Grove building in Dartmouth, which I suspect is Harbour Foundations. They are relatively new in mid-rise form work but seem very efficient. I suspect once this is out of what appears to be 3 levels of underground this will rise fast.

[Dmajackson]

Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson)

[DT Hfx]

5515 Cogswell St (2) by DwN~toWN Halifax, on Flickr

[DT Hfx]

5515 Cogswell St (1) by DwN~toWN Halifax, on Flickr

[Dmajackson]

HalifaxDevelopments.ca (Photo by David Jackson)