Halifax Stadium Discussion

[wespidel]

fenwick look at the roof design posted by Events NS and the way it`s designed, supported from the top so there is no obstruction and no posts in the stands, this is the new way they are building partial roofs

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Fenwick the above stadium profile you created is totally built out of concrete precast risers, etc. the whole stadium which is unlike the Cardiff, correct or not. The Cardiff structure looks like it`s built out all metal or steel frame modulars. Please give me your opinion.

PS. Fenwick what you have above, before my previous post I missed seeing, but I`m impressed with what you have done and with the see through roof style, looks like here is of room plenty too for all the amenities, skyboxes, club houses, press boxes, concourses, etc.

SPYDER* We need to come up with a better proposal than the 25 permanent seat bowl modular structure, expandable to only 35 thousand that will be proposed.

I like the idea of using concrete because it is relatively cheap, it would feel solid when fans start stumping in unison, it doesn't burn, it requires little maintenance, and there are companies in the Maritimes that have experience building multilevel parking garages and the Metro Centre arena out of concrete (from what I remember seeing when it was being built, the stands are mainly concrete) but the roof is steel.

I think that your concern is that a bowl shape might be to confining and difficult to expand. You might be right. I think that for concerts, a 25,000 seat horseshoe stadium could likely hold at least 40,000 with people on the field while the band could be in the open end of the field. PS: At this point, if the municipality decided to build a 25,000 seat permanent stadium expandable to 36,000 then I would be happy. A Grey Cup will likely only come to Halifax once in a long time so maybe if Halifax can start by getting a team, then later on the city can figure out how to make the stadium large enough to host the Grey Cup.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

fenwick look at the roof design posted by Events NS and the way it`s designed, supported from the top so there is no obstruction and no posts in the stands, this is the new way they are building partial roofs

The partial roof in the Events NS drawings only extends out by 30 - 35 feet. In the conceptual 3D drawing that I drew, I have it extending out by about 80 feet. A cantilevered roof that extends by 80 feet without supports will have to be massive and relatively expensive. I just drew it that way to indicate that maybe having more seats covered would be a fair trade off instead of having fewer seats covered for the same price. There is one baseball stadium that was recently renovated with interior columns added to the stadium roof - US Cellular Field - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Cellular_Field. The other way is to have supports added above the roof as in the Cardiff City Stadium and several other UK stadiums. But then they don't look good from outside the stadium with all the external supports. Also the roof will have to be built sturdier in Nova Scotia than the UK (I believe) because the snow loading values will be greater in Nova Scotia.

The way that I have it drawn is like the Washington State Huskies Stadium - http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._show_band.jpg. But that stadium has a very long cantilevered roof and it has massive supports (I think it extends out by almost 150 feet). Newer stadiums like Qwest field in Seattle have length-wise trusses but that will probably be out of the cost range.

[TedWilliamsHead]

Although my first choice would be to locate the stadium in the downtown core, I am starting to like the idea of putting a stadium in the clayton park mainland commons area.....it has all the shopping/bar/restaurant entertainment locations around the area that would really add to the whole experience of athletic or concert events held at the stadium, it is located off both the 101 and 102 highways and is also close enough to travel into the downtown core of our city... with all the recent athletic facilities built at the mainland commons recently it could really add to a great area of the city for athletes to train.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

.

The way that I have it drawn is like the Washington State Huskies Stadium - http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._show_band.jpg. But that stadium has a very long cantilevered roof and it has massive supports (I think it extends out by almost 150 feet). Newer stadiums like Qwest field in Seattle have length-wise trusses but that will probably be out of the cost range.

What is interesting about Husky Stadium is the way the media viewing is located. It appears that the lower observation mezz. partially supports the upper level and the upper level is partially supported by steel hung from the roof. This can be done because they use support columns for the roof. I like fenwick's corner media centers but i wonder if the view would be compromised a bit. If not, it would be a good use of space and would be good for skyboxes VIP viewing and as mentioned previously perhaps hotel rooms. Opposing media could locate in opposite corners.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

What is interesting about Husky Stadium is the way the media viewing is located. It appears that the lower observation mezz. partially supports the upper level and the upper level is partially supported by steel hung from the roof. This can be done because they use support columns for the roof. I like fenwick's corner media centers but i wonder if the view would be compromised a bit. If not, it would be a good use of space and would be good for skyboxes VIP viewing and as mentioned previously perhaps hotel rooms. Opposing media could locate in opposite corners.

Late last night I decided to try another configuration. I like the one below much better than the one I posted yesterday. In this case the corner suites would have a good view directly over the field. I changed the viewing angle and lengthened the front viewing side of the two corners (instead of 4 corners, there are only 2 but they are larger). I have read about soccer stadiums in Europe with luxury suites in the corners.

A big advantage of having the luxury suites as separate but integrated buildings is that they can be truly luxurious with air conditioning and heating and lots of room behind each balcony seating area for private washrooms, kitchen and meeting area. I think in this layout that the suites might be quite popular and there is lots of room in these corner buildings to even have some living quarters.

Another advantage to such a layout is that roof trusses could span the two buildings in the endzones so that the endzone seats could be completely covered.

Edited: deleted image

This isn't complete. Media facilities could be in one corner (these are large areas) and additional suites/club seats could be in the other. One or two VIP lounges could be in the story over the first floor changerooms. Field level washrooms could also be in these corners to service field level concert-goers. Also having the two corners built as simple buildings will allow for elevators in each so that the media area can be completely wheelchair accessible. Based on the square footage, the corner buildings would be a significant part of the stadium budget (at $200 per square foot, they could cost $15 million to $20 million). But there would be savings on the stands portion of the stadium because all the luxury areas would be contained in the 2 corner buildings. This layout, as I have it drawn probably has too many seats (around 27,000 including the luxury areas and wheelchair seating). However, to get the cost and number of seats down a couple of sideline seating sections could be removed. There would be lots of room in the open endzone to add temporary seating for a Grey Cup.

PS: It would look better if the corners were curved but the viewing angle wouldn't be as good. Since it is right over the field and can be built closer than many of the seats in the stands (since it is built vertically upwards) it has good views of the field. The glass would have to be safety glass since some balls purposely thrown out of the endzone might end up in that corner.
EDITED: deleted image

This would be the view from one of the corner luxury suites.

[wespidel]

This Is The Model Stadium Halifax Needs Which Cover All Aspects!

Take The Colored Photo Design Posted By Events Ns With The Soccer Players In The Foreground And The Double Decker With Skyboxes In The Background And Make It Bigger 12,500 Plus Permanent Seats And Twin Them One On Each Side Of The Stadium And Keep The Endzones Open So You Can Accomodate Major Concerts And The First Grey Cup In Atlantic By Permanently Expanded The Capacity Or By Make Shift To 45 Or 50 Thousand Needed For A Grey Cup And Major Concerts.

With This Twin Double Decker Design You Allow For Very Option And Cover All Opportunities For A Major Cfl Sporting Franchise, A Grey Cup Game, And Major Concerts Versus A Bowl Type Fixed Stadium That Can Only Be Expanded To 35,000 Which Limits Major Concerts And A Grey Cup.

This Twin Double Decker Model Can Now Have Skyboxes On Both Sides And You Need To Have 25 Plus Skyboxes With Concourses On Both Sides Of The Twin Double Decker Styled Stadium Which It Will Have As Well And Perchaps Some Club Seats And With All The Other Amenities.

This Twin Double Decker Model Stadium Is A Winner And The Way To Go To Build It Right And Build It For The Present And Future And Most Importantly To Build It In The Right Location.

I Certainly Hope This Will Be A Model Option Presented Versus The Bowl Modular Type Stadium.

The Twin Double Decker 25,000 Plus Permanent Open Endzone Concept, Expandable To 45 To 50 For Major Events, Would Win Hands Down, Versus A Fixed Bowl Modular Fixed 25,ooo Permanent Seat Stadium Expandable Only To 35,000.

Spyder*

[MaritimeCFLFan]

Originally Posted by MaritimeCFLFan

Hey all,

I created a new thread (poll) aimed at trying to gauge what type of support a CFL team would receive among the posters here at SkyscraperPage.com. I know many of you have already stated your support in this and other threads but I feel this deserves it's own thread. Make a selection at...

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=187693

If a new multi purpose stadium for Halifax becomes a reality I'm sure a CFL team will follow.

Just moving this to a more current page.

[Halifax Privateer]

I have been following this forum for quite sometime, but have never posted. This is my first post!! I believe Halifax is agreat city, that can be even greater. I believe a new stadium along with a CFL franchise would be a great start and a rallying point for the City of Halifax. I believe the stadium, when it is built should be close to the downtown; either Halifax or Dartmouth. These are things that give a city it's vibe. In order for a stadium to blend in with it's environ, I believe the stadium requires a partially sunken lower bowl and upper decks at street level. This will make the stadium less intrusive and enable it to blend in with its neighborhood. Check out the baseball field in Buffalo, N.Y.

Lets Go Halifax Privateers!!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Halifax Privateer

I have been following this forum for quite sometime, but have never posted. This is my first post!! I believe Halifax is agreat city, that can be even greater. I believe a new stadium along with a CFL franchise would be a great start and a rallying point for the City of Halifax. I believe the stadium, when it is built should be close to the downtown; either Halifax or Dartmouth. These are things that give a city it's vibe. In order for a stadium to blend in with it's environ, I believe the stadium requires a partially sunken lower bowl and upper decks at street level. This will make the stadium less intrusive and enable it to blend in with its neighborhood. Check out the baseball field in Buffalo, N.Y.

Lets Go Halifax Privateers!!

Welcome to the forum Halifax Privateer. I agree with you on Pilot Field in Buffalo (it has changed its name a few times, now it is Coca-Cola Field). I have seen Pilot (Coca Cola) Field in Buffalo from the street and it looks great.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Halifax Privateer

I have been following this forum for quite sometime, but have never posted. This is my first post!! I believe Halifax is agreat city, that can be even greater. I believe a new stadium along with a CFL franchise would be a great start and a rallying point for the City of Halifax. I believe the stadium, when it is built should be close to the downtown; either Halifax or Dartmouth. These are things that give a city it's vibe. In order for a stadium to blend in with it's environ, I believe the stadium requires a partially sunken lower bowl and upper decks at street level. This will make the stadium less intrusive and enable it to blend in with its neighborhood. Check out the baseball field in Buffalo, N.Y.

Lets Go Halifax Privateers!!

Welcome Halifax Privateer, you may have the winning name.

Halifax Privateers....................

Potential names for Halifax CFL franchise:

1. Atlantic Schooners
2. Halifax Clippers
3. Halifax Buccaneers
4. Halifax Windjammers
5. Atlantic Hurricanes
6. Atlantic Storm Surge
7. Halifax Loyalists
8. Halifax Stingrays
9. Atlantic Whalers
10. Halifax Wolverines
11. Halifax Bounty Hunters
12. Atlantic Mutineers
13. Halifax Spitfire
14. Halifax Corvettes
15. Halifax Deck Hands
16. Atlantic Seafarers
17. Halifax Swashbucklers
18. Atlantic Breakers
19. Atlantic Rip Tide

[wespidel]

Fenwick I want your approval and agreement on the Twin Double Decker 25,000 plus permanent seat concept with all the amenities and with open endzones to expand to 45 to 50 thousand for a Grey Cup Game and for major concerts. I believe based on your posted illustrations and comments that you would agree that this the way to go.

Fenwick if built right and modestly, can a Twin Double Decker styled stadium with a partial see through roof with a minium of 25,000 permanent seats and 20 plus total skyboxes, and concourses with washrooms and concession stands on both sides of the stadium, be built for 60 to 80 million without the land.

Fenwick why is Winnipeg`s sunken in bowl 33,000 permanent seat stadium expandable to a minium of 45,000 which it better be or they won`t get a Grey Game in Winnipeg ever again, so expensive to build, 190 million?

Good name for a Halifax CFL team, the (Halifax Explosion)

[Empire]

Potential names for Halifax CFL franchise:

1. Atlantic Schooners/Halifax Explosion/Halifax Privateers
2. Halifax Loyalists
3. Halifax Buccaneers
4. Halifax Windjammers
5. Atlantic Hurricanes
6. Atlantic Storm
7. Halifax Clippers
8. Halifax Stingrays
9. Atlantic Whalers
10. Halifax Wolverines
11. Halifax Bounty Hunters
12. Atlantic Mutineers
13. Halifax Spitfire
14. Halifax Corvettes
15. Halifax Deck Hands
16. Atlantic Seafarers
17. Halifax Swashbucklers
18. Atlantic Breakers
19. Atlantic Rip Tide

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Fenwick I want your approval and agreement on the Twin Double Decker 25,000 plus permanent seat concept with all the amenities and with open endzones to expand to 45 to 50 thousand for a Grey Cup Game and for major concerts. I believe based on your posted illustrations and comments that you would agree that this the way to go.

Fenwick if built right and modestly, can a Twin Double Decker styled stadium with a partial see through roof with a minium of 25,000 permanent seats and 20 plus total skyboxes, and concourses with washrooms and concession stands on both sides of the stadium, be built for 60 to 80 million without the land.

Fenwick why is Winnipeg`s sunken in bowl 33,000 permanent seat stadium expandable to a minium of 45,000 which it better be or they won`t get a Grey Game in Winnipeg ever again, so expensive to build, 190 million?

Good name for a Halifax CFL team, the (Halifax Explosion)

I agree with you but I prefer just one open endzone (horseshoe configuration) with room for temporary seating for a Grey Cup. In my 3D model I also have the first seating level raised by 5 feet so that about another 2000 seats could be put along the sidelines at field level for a Grey Cup.

I prefer the corners for luxury suites since there is ample room in those areas to have very large suites. Since suite levels can be built almost vertically they will have better views than would regular corner seating (I have read about soccer stadiums with corner luxury suites). I checked the views throughout the stadium with the electronic 3D model and it looks good.

I am not an expert on stadium construction costs. I am just basing my thoughts on the cost of recently built stadiums and how they are built. I am also basing it on speaking to one expert in the field. I saw floor layout plans for the Winnipeg Stadium proposal on the internet (a few months ago but I can't find them now) and it is undoubtedly an impressive stadium. A few things that I think make it much more expensive are: it has curved stands which will require more precast forms to manufacture and more time to erect; several floors of concourses which I assume have washrooms throughout; each level is probably wheelchair accessible throughout (as is recommended, and as it should be) and I believe it will have seating on tracks as stated by thurmas on this forum. Economy didn't seem to be a factor in the design. I would say that the Blue Bombers Stadium would be the Lexus of stadiums. On the other hand there is McMahon Stadium which is a very nice looking stadium but the construction method looks much simpler (just one tier of seating, and maybe just one concourse level?). That would be a nice design for Halifax but building codes have changed since the first stage of McMahon was built in 1960. Now 1% of seats must be wheelchair accessible and they shouldn't be poor seating areas such as at field level. This is why I like the 2 tier style (double-decker as you refer to it) since there are areas throughout for wheelchair seating. However, these same areas aren't ideal for luxury suites which have evolved into very large suites of 300 square feet plus.

To keep the cost down, the HRM will have to do everything possible to look for ways to build a stadium economically. This doesn't mean that it has to be an insignificant structure. However, it might mean having the concourses unheated and trying to centralize the washrooms as much as possible. Also the seating should be designed so that it is basic with the fewest number of different components (not fewer components just not a large variety of components). So in my simple conceptual models I just use one repeating 60 foot wide unit and then paste it repeatedly. In this way it is like the Montreal AutoStade not the Montreal Olympic Stadium. The reason that I like having luxury suites located in a couple of corner buildings is that these buildings can be built just as a regular 5 storey building would be. I have checked the view from these areas in the model and it looks very good.

About a year ago I read that Mayor Kelly was thinking of an out-of-the box stadium design. So I am sure that Mayor Kelly has been thinking about it for some time and might have even decided on a stadium model some time ago. By out-of-the box stadium, I assume a stadium design that is tried and proven (not something unique which will be more costly).

Although I have communicated with Halifax area Councillors in person (once) and by email (a few times) I don't have any inside information on what is being planned. I think you might know more than I do, wespidel.

[Keith P.]

More name suggestions:

Halifax Public Servants
Halifax Bureaucrats
Halifax Governors
Halifax Handouts
Halifax Government Grants (Gee Gees for short)
Halifax Subsidies
Halifax Taxmen
Halifax Largesse
Halifax Mandarins
Halifax Politicos
Halifax Nimbys
Halifax BANANAS
Halifax Heritage Loons
Halifax Viewplanes

[wespidel]

Fenwick I was told it was a bowl modular permanent fixed structure, 25,000 permanent seats expandable to 35,000, there goes any chance for a GREY CUP GAME IF THEY BUILD THIS DESIGN TYPE STADIUM, IS THIS FENWICK WHAT YOU MEAN BY A OUT-OF -BOX- TYPE STADIUM

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Halifax Handouts

I think we have a winner!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by wespidel

Fenwick I was told it was a bowl modular permanent fixed structure, 25,000 permanent seats expandable to 35,000, there goes any chance for a GREY CUP GAME IF THEY BUILD THIS DESIGN TYPE STADIUM, IS THIS FENWICK WHAT YOU MEAN BY A OUT-OF -BOX- TYPE STADIUM

Give me a break wespidel! I don't know anything about what they are planning. I posted a 3D model above. Does it look like a bowl shape? Of course not.

Why do you keep asking me even though I keep saying that I don't know?

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by someone123

I think we have a winner!

The 2 H club?

[wespidel]

Fenwick I asked you about out- of- box type structive not bowl type structure, or are they the same, please explain the out- of-box type structure and why are you rude to people on this site, don`t bother being on here if you are going to be nasty and mean, I have always praised your efforts and insight