PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[jonesrmj]

Is it just me or I'm having an issue where when I go on the Crosby Hill thread (http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=246244), it logs me out and won't let me log in and post on it but every other thread works fine.

[summersm343]

487,000-square-foot Burlington industrial building built on spec gets leased up

TA Realty built a warehouse totaling 486,812 square feet at 1950 River Road in Burlington, N.J. The nearly 500,000-square-foot building will provide a Canadian company with access to the Northeast.

Read/view more here:
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...Pos=0#cxrecs_s

[arkitect13]

Sorry for a Bump with no info,but ive been doing some reasearch on the topic and cant find any definitive answer, so im looking here, Is it still possible, or feasible, for Philly/Wilmington or other nearby cities to annex surrounding land? Or are they stuck where there at right now?

[KDD]

If I recall, to annex another municipality you need voters from both places to approve it. That will probably never happen. Why on earth would Lower Marion want to be annex by Philadelphia? Truth be told, you could save a lot of administrative costs by combining a small towns and boroughs. In Montco, would it be more efficient to combine Red Hill, Pennsburg and East Greenville? Sure, but such a payoff for climbing such a steep mountain.

More importantly, it would never make it to voters to begin with. What politician is going to support something that would ultimately eliminate their own job? Same reason why our oversized state legislature will never shrink.

[mcgrath618]

Philadelphia needs a London-style re-bordering. By that, I mean that in a perfect world the state would see that some Philadelphia suburbs are more Philadelphian than some other suburbs that actually fall within city limits.

In the 60s I believe, Britain realized that London’s influence had grown, and that a lot of the suburbs were reaping the benefits of the city without paying into their tax pool (sound familiar?). They ended up redrawing the borders based on a few criteria. It’s covered fairly well in this video:

https://youtu.be/UAusbJmRB0c

Obviously, this won’t happen in Philly. But it should.

[arkitect13]

^^^ Thank you, and i agree, Philly should have its borders redrawn. Many of the suburbs around the city especially the suburbs that have a huge link with the city, like you said. It wont happen, but one can dream. I just have always wondered how the process of annexation worked.

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by KDD

If I recall, to annex another municipality you need voters from both places to approve it. That will probably never happen. Why on earth would Lower Marion want to be annex by Philadelphia? Truth be told, you could save a lot of administrative costs by combining a small towns and boroughs. In Montco, would it be more efficient to combine Red Hill, Pennsburg and East Greenville? Sure, but such a payoff for climbing such a steep mountain.

More importantly, it would never make it to voters to begin with. What politician is going to support something that would ultimately eliminate their own job? Same reason why our oversized state legislature will never shrink.

Having grown up in Abington, I've been a proponent of the #AnnexJenkintown movement for years. Not sure how it makes any sense for them to have their own school district which I believe graduates around 50 students a year... I'm sure there are a ton of other similar situations.

[KDD]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

Having grown up in Abington, I've been a proponent of the #AnnexJenkintown movement for years. Not sure how it makes any sense for them to have their own school district which I believe graduates around 50 students a year... I'm sure there are a ton of other similar situations.

Combining school districts I think would be the biggest hurdle, and makes any annexation impossible. Wherever you live, you probably have a firm opinion, for better or worse, about the quality of the neighboring school district. I remember learning in school (Allentown) that in the 70s there was a proposal to annex neighboring Salisbury Township. It was Allentown that eventually rejected it, saying they had no use for farmland. That was a big whoopsie.

Speaking of Abington, what is the deal with the "Proud to be from Abington" bumper stickers? Cheltenham has something similar, and no where else that I can think of.

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by KDD

Combining school districts I think would be the biggest hurdle, and makes any annexation impossible. Wherever you live, you probably have a firm opinion, for better or worse, about the quality of the neighboring school district. I remember learning in school (Allentown) that in the 70s there was a proposal to annex neighboring Salisbury Township. It was Allentown that eventually rejected it, saying they had no use for farmland. That was a big whoopsie.

Speaking of Abington, what is the deal with the "Proud to be from Abington" bumper stickers? Cheltenham has something similar, and no where else that I can think of.

Agreed that as a practical matter we'll probably never see much, if any, annexation lol. At least Rockledge students attend Abington school district, though it's otherwise a separate borough (has its own government, police and fire department, etc.).

No idea about the stickers, though. Through all my schooling there, they definitely tried to instill a strong sense of Abington pride, and a lot of people stick around the area for life (anecdotally, it also felt like a lot of people's parents were from Abington, and some people around my age have started returning there now that we're a bit older).

[summersm343]

It would literally never happen in today's day and age and today's political climate. More importantly, no surrounding suburban municipality would allow themselves to be annexed by Philly with it's crime rate, higher income tax, and poor public school system.

If Boston and San Fran remain small and can't annex surrounding municipalities... cities that are typically viewed as yuppie paradises with low crime rates.... why would Philly be able to?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

It would literally never happen in today's day and age and today's political climate. More importantly, no surrounding suburban municipality would allow themselves to be annexed by Philly with it's crime rate, higher income tax, and poor public school system.

If Boston and San Fran remain small and can't annex surrounding municipalities... cities that are typically viewed as yuppie paradises with low crime rates.... why would Philly be able to?

Agreed and disagree.

I would argue that the Philadelphia School District has more resources than SE Delco. I would certainly rather be a child in the PSD with access to Masterman, Central, Girls, GAMP, Carver, and SLA than William Penn High School. Granted, navigating elementary schools in Philadelphia is tenuous...but there are a plethora of amazing opportunities for kids if they can get to the 6th or 8th grade, depending.

I could also see the William Penn School District being absorbed in Upper Darby. On balance, the numbers for Upper Darby look mediocre at best, but it's a huge school system in its own right and if you are high achieving, there are good resources for students.

I could also see like for like school districts consolidating. There aren't substantial differences between Interboro and Ridley, for example.

In Chester County, you already have for the most part regional systems that have scale with few exceptions. Both West Chester and Unionville Chadds Ford School Districts are massive in area and have like 6-8 townships in them. Ditto for Downingtown. All are very very high achieving.

I see consolidation being a tool for rural counties. You have counties in PA with fewer than 50 or 60K people and they might have 3 or 4 school districts. No reason why there can't be a Montour County School District or a Schuykill County School District. Consolidate administration, create a single funding stream and tax system, and maintain current boundaries perhaps only for feeder patterns into high schools.

[jonesrmj]

All of the talk about annexation really makes me wonder if there should be limits, because when looking at the sunbelt cities, they annex like crazy and never seem to stop. Phoenix with's its puny downtown (probably the same scale as Wilmington's downtown) is only more populated than Philadelphia because it's literally 4x the size since they annex so many suburbs and call them part of Phoenix. Same thing for Houston, and other sunbelt cities. In reality, they are just medium or small sized cities plus tons of suburbs that make up the large population rather than a real large world class city. I'm pretty sure the list of the largest cities in the US would look completely different when factoring in the density to size ratio. In that case, I don't think any sunbelt city would even make the top 10 list.

Just out of curiosity though, why is it that the sunbelt cities are allowed to annex way more land than the northern cities ever could?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

All of the talk about annexation really makes me wonder if there should be limits, because when looking at the sunbelt cities, they annex like crazy and never seem to stop. Phoenix with's its puny downtown (probably the same scale as Wilmington's downtown) is only more populated than Philadelphia because it's literally 4x the size since they annex so many suburbs and call them part of Phoenix. Same thing for Houston, and other sunbelt cities. In reality, they are just medium or small sized cities plus tons of suburbs that make up the large population rather than a real large world class city. I'm pretty sure the list of the largest cities in the US would look completely different when factoring in the density to size ratio. In that case, I don't think any sunbelt city would even make the top 10 list.

Just out of curiosity though, why is it that the sunbelt cities are allowed to annex way more land than the northern cities ever could?

It's probably a county thing. Like, the primary municipality is able to annex land within the larger county. For sure this is the case in Phoenix. Maricopa County is bigger than some states.

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by jonesrmj

All of the talk about annexation really makes me wonder if there should be limits, because when looking at the sunbelt cities, they annex like crazy and never seem to stop. Phoenix with's its puny downtown (probably the same scale as Wilmington's downtown) is only more populated than Philadelphia because it's literally 4x the size since they annex so many suburbs and call them part of Phoenix. Same thing for Houston, and other sunbelt cities. In reality, they are just medium or small sized cities plus tons of suburbs that make up the large population rather than a real large world class city. I'm pretty sure the list of the largest cities in the US would look completely different when factoring in the density to size ratio. In that case, I don't think any sunbelt city would even make the top 10 list.

Just out of curiosity though, why is it that the sunbelt cities are allowed to annex way more land than the northern cities ever could?

FWIW, Houston's metro population is almost 1m bigger than us, and Phoenix is "only" around 1m behind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_areas (Not trying to be competitive or city vs. city, I just think we haven't realized how populated some of the sunbelt metro areas have actually gotten.) I personally don't really tend to care about these things much but I do think Boston and San Francisco in particular have much more reason to be aggrieved about this issue than we do.

[jonesrmj]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

FWIW, Houston's metro population is almost 1m bigger than us, and Phoenix is "only" around 1m behind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tistical_areas (Not trying to be competitive or city vs. city, I just think we haven't realized how populated some of the sunbelt metro areas have actually gotten.) I personally don't really tend to care about these things much but I do think Boston and San Francisco in particular have much more reason to be aggrieved about this issue than we do.

Yes, but the area that the sunbelt cities take up is much bigger. Like hundreds of square miles bigger, so it's around the same amount of people but spread out much further. Factor in the density to size ratio and the sunbelt cities/metros will plummet down the list. I'm also not trying to make this a city vs city thing, I'm just saying how crazy annexation is in the sunbelt cities vs the rest of the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...cities_by_area

[summersm343]

Penn Medicine gene therapy unit moving into former GSK plant in King of Prussia

The University of Pennsylvania’s gene therapy program has signed a 150,000-square-foot lease at a former GlaxoSmithKline property in King of Prussia, as the quick-growing unit’s need for specialty lab space outpaces what’s available right now closer to home in University City.

Penn’s gene therapy program will use the space at the former Montgomery County pharmaceutical plant for part of its expanding research into genetic medicines for rare diseases, including ultra-rare ailments known as “orphan” diseases, as well as infectious diseases such as COVID-19, according to a release on Tuesday by Penn Medicine and MLP Ventures, which owns the property.

The lease is a boon to MLP chief J. Brian O’Neill, a Main Line developer who has been promoting the 411 Swedeland Rd. property as part of a planned network of lab and office buildings occupied by life-science tenants, dubbed Discovery Labs.

Gene therapy is one of the most successful sectors in Philadelphia’s fast-growing life-science industry, as companies form and expand to capitalize on research spun off from Penn and other institutions.

In a research note last month, commercial real estate firm Newmark classified University City as one of 12 “star submarkets” nationwide that have maintained high rents and occupancy levels, even as other cities’ office markets suffer from the economic impacts of the coronavirus pandemic.

It attributed that success to University City’s biomedical and life-science activity.

This activity has prompted a spate of new projects aimed at meeting surging demand for lab space. These include Brandywine Realty Trust’s Schuylkill Yards West office, lab and apartment tower, the One uCity building rising as part of Wexford Science & Technology’s uCity Square complex and the 3.0 University Place offices that broke ground last week.

Landlords are also scrambling to retrofit existing office space to accommodate life science labs. Brandywine, for example, is turning a 50,000-square foot section of the Cira Center tower near 30th Street Station into lab and research space, while Keystone Property Group has transformed sections of its Curtis building beside Washington Square into life-science labs and offices for such tenants as Imvax Inc. and Vivodyne.

In all, landlords are in the process of building two million square feet of lab space for life science tenants citywide, but it won’t be available for occupancy until late next year, according to a report last month by real estate services firm CBRE.

And tenants want space now: CBRE said that there could be enough immediate demand from users to fill 1.5-million square feet of those labs, an area nearly the size of Comcast’s newly built technology tower.

“Demand for life science space is outstripping the existing supply in University City, a trend we expect that to continue,” said Jim Egan, a broker at Newmark, who was also not involved with Penn’s gene therapy deal. “The Penn transaction is an indicator that the entire region is benefiting from the research being done in our world-renowned institutions.”

Read more here:
https://www.inquirer.com/business/dr...-20210525.html

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Penn Medicine gene therapy unit moving into former GSK plant in King of Prussia



Read more here:
https://www.inquirer.com/business/dr...-20210525.html

But according to Amazon, there's "no" engineering talent in Philadelphia.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

But according to Amazon, there's "no" engineering talent in Philadelphia.

They were talking about software engineers, I still don't agree but this isn't exactly the same thing.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

They were talking about software engineers, I still don't agree but this isn't exactly the same thing.

I'm aware.

The point is ten years ago the leaders of genetic engineering labs could have said the same thing and now we're swimming in talent.

Create the demand and the engineers will appear. We have the institutions to support the pipeline.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I'm aware.

The point is ten years ago the leaders of genetic engineering labs could have said the same thing and now we're swimming in talent.

Create the demand and the engineers will appear. We have the institutions to support the pipeline.

Yeah... so dumb and shortsighted on Amazon's part. Not only does Philadelphia and the surrounding region have access to some of the top talent from top Universities in the country (Penn, Temple, Drexel, St. Joes, LaSalle, Villanova, UDel, etc.), but a major company located in Philadelphia could EASILLY recruit from Penn State, Lehigh, Princeton, Rutgers, Pittsburgh (Carnegie Mellon, Pitt) DC (Georgetown), Baltimore (Johns Hopkins), NYC (Columbia, NYU)... and could probably even recruit pretty easily from New England (Yale, MIT, Cambridge, Brown, Cornell)... etc. etc.... the list goes on.

I mean, just so unbelievably dumb and shortsighted. A major company like Amazon located behind 30th Street station would have NO issue recruiting from all over the Northeast due to this locations Rail interconnectivity with the rest of the Northeast, PHL, highway interconnectivity, etc. etc.