Ottawa Transit Cuts. Your view

[miketoronto]

Quebec overall does a great job with transit service access. The routes may not run very often during late night hours, but they do provide the service in the main cities.

The Montreal map I made had so many routes in Laval and the South Shore, running till like 1:30 am seven days a week.

So much for the Ontario excuse of not enough ridership to justify late night service in many of our cities.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Cre47

With the SW Transitway opening up, that gap for a chunk of Barrhaven will be covered and same thing for Innes Road, since apparently hours of operation on the 94 will be extended on weekends again. That would also cover the Woodroffe South area as well.

Although at least routes 1, 4, 14, 86, 87 (Hurdman to Greenboro), 114 (Elmvale to Hurdman) and 176 should be running until midnight seven days a week and perhaps also the 96 portion west of Terry Fox and the 99. There should be enough ridership to justify increasing a bit the hours (in most cases it's just one or two additionnal runs). In fact, it might be enough ridership to have the 96 running 24-hours as well.

Agreed that those routes should run until past midnight 7 days a week and at least until 1:00 am Monday to Saturday, generally every 30 minutes in the late evening hours. The 96 (up to Terry Fox) and 97 should be running 24 hours as well I think, every 30 minutes overnight.

Other all-day routes (which I classify as Secondary Routes) I think the general standards should be until 11 pm on Sundays and midnight Monday to Saturday (even if hourly in the late evening), although if ridership exists later runs could be added at least as trial runs for a season or two.

Secondary Routes I think should be: 3, 5, 9, 18, 87, 112, 115, 116, 120, 122, 124, 125, 126, 128, 129, 130, 131, 135, 140, 142, 144, 146, 148, 149*, 151, 152, 154, 156, 160, 161, 163**, 164, 168, 170, 171*, 172, 175** and 177**.

*Service standards are, or will be, nowhere near the level required, which I think should be revised with route adjustments to build up ridership.

**Ridership does not currently meet the standards, but full build-out will allow such.

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Agreed with a premium fare (equivalent to the current express fare), at least on weekdays for Greenbelt-crossing trips. Trips within Kanata, Barrhaven, Orleans, etc. would still be regular fare though, as would trips that are entirely within the Greenbelt.

I wouldn't charge the premium on weekends or holidays though, since that would be expensive for suburban families. Also to discourage drinking and driving in the late evening, there should be no premium after 9 pm on weekdays.

It would have to apply to all so those living downtown that works in orleans would have to be the premium as well.

[McC]

The 97 is pretty close to 24-hour a day service between between Tunneys and the Airport, there's just about an hour on Saturday (between 4-5am) and 3 hours on Sunday (Between 3-6am) and 2 hours on Monday (between 2-4am-ish) that don't have service, I think.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by reidjr

It would have to apply to all so those living downtown that works in orleans would have to be the premium as well.

That would indeed be the case. It would apply in both directions with a fare zone system.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

lrt's friend. Do you feel that the Transitway really has not improved transit.
You mentioned that your trips actually got worse after the opening of it.
Do you think this is just because of how the new routes were routed, or do you think it is because of the Transitway, and can't really be fixed?

What was service like before the Transitway? Were buses fast, or were they slow?

On balance, the Transitways have been beneficial, however, that has not been universal. If you traveling downtown or on one of the Transitway corridors, you get faster more reliable service than what existed before. The problem I described relates to more local service. The Transitways are not the equivalent to subways because they cannot run through dense neighbourhoods and along arterial streets. They skirt around the edges of neighbourhoods often through empty fields that won't be developed. They provide fast commuter service like a Go Train but they have also drawn service away from arterial corridors. The bus routes were all reconfigured (often truncated) to run to the Transitways. Former service on arterial streets in some cases was decimated by the competing Transitways. Suburban routes were shortened so a transfer was required to go practically anywhere and then you get the transfer penalty and since only the Transitway routes run frequently, the wait time is significant if you are going anywhere else. As a result, it is much more difficult if your destination is along one of those arterial streets or if your trip is much more direct by using one of those arterial streets. Because all the routes are directed to the Transitway, it depends on the street patterns whether you get fast service or not. In our neighbourhood, it has created a 'milk run' as the bus route meanders through the community to serve everybody. Part of this also relates to prior route optimizations. Routes were merged and this created the 'milk run' route design as well.

There is no easy solution because the Transitways on balance are beneficial. I just happen to be one of the losers. I do think that connectivity to arterial streets needs to be improved and there is a need to eliminate milk run routes and make routes more direct. I don't have a lot of confidence in the current process as I fear what they have in mind is simply an elimination or reduction of service. That will make matters even worse. To eliminate the milk run and replace it with nothing at all. I have seen the 'alternate service plan', which simply eliminates service from the east half of our community and parts will be beyond the 800 metre minimum standard. More than shown on an associated map because the 800 metre standard is based on how the crow flies rather than real walking distances. In any event, only someone without access to a car or a ride will walk 800 metres to a bus stop.

What was it like before? All the bus routes had to follow the arterial streets. From our neighbourhood, the bus routes ran directly to the arterial and on to the closest shopping mall. During peak periods, express buses continued to downtown. During off-peak periods, all buses ended at the mall. Buses could get held up in traffic and that could affect reliability but that was rarely a problem during off-peak hours. Now off-peak buses no longer run to that indoor mall, just the closest Transitway station and a big-box complex. No suburban buses run on the arterial anymore. An inner city route was extended instead, so it is no longer practical for anybody in the surrounding suburbs to reach any destination along the arterial unless you are prepared for a wait for a transfer after going to the Transitway and then backtracking. Virtually nobody does that, of course.

[miketoronto]

So before the transitway, the main arterial roads in Ottawa had very frequent service, compared to today?

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

That would indeed be the case. It would apply in both directions with a fare zone system.

My issue is it would not go over well in the core there are that want the burbs paying extra but they feel they should not be extra.

[MaxHeadroom]

Ottawa is not dense enough to make any kind of transit efficient, convenient, cost effective, or fast.

The car wins, every time.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

So before the transitway, the main arterial roads in Ottawa had very frequent service, compared to today?

Yes, and service has been disconnected from the surrounding neighbourhoods. Of course, if you drive, you naturally drive down the arterials and by the various businesses. It is easy to get there by car. By transit, you are taken to the Transitway instead.

For us in the south end, Bank Street is difficult to access by transit. For those in Orleans, Montreal Road is difficult to access. Even St. Joseph Blvd is difficult to access except Place d'Orleans itself.

Of course, to remedy this may require some service duplication, which we are now specifically eliminating. There is no hope for better service, so I will stick to my car.

I explained my situation to a transit planner at a public consultation meeting who told me they would try hard to get me back. I chuckled under my breath. I knew nothing would be done. Now they are almost certain to make it worse.