[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[OldDartmouthMark]

Good news! I can hear peoples' ankles breathing a sigh of relief as I type this.

[eastcoastal]

I read that the Five Guys (burger place) that was scheduled to open in May is now pushed back to a July opening.

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

I read that the Five Guys (burger place) that was scheduled to open in May is now pushed back to a July opening.

That’s too bad...they would have made a killing during the Memorial Cup.

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

I read that the Five Guys (burger place) that was scheduled to open in May is now pushed back to a July opening.

Meh. Five Guys has a lot of hype (and don't get me wrong, they make an excellent burger) but it seems like a big waste of a prime retail location. Was hoping for an Earl's or something akin.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

Meh. Five Guys has a lot of hype (and don't get me wrong, they make an excellent burger) but it seems like a big waste of a prime retail location. Was hoping for an Earl's or something akin.

Never been to a Five Guys... and really, whether it's Five Guys, the Keg, Earl's or something local, this building needs stuff visitors and us citizens will actually use (I'm looking at your lottery corp).

[terrynorthend]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Never been to a Five Guys... and really, whether it's Five Guys, the Keg, Earl's or something local, this building needs stuff visitors and us citizens will actually use (I'm looking at your lottery corp).

Agreed! Street front ALC and Service Canada do NOT belong on Argyle, for all the money we put into street upgrades.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by terrynorthend

Agreed! Street front ALC and Service Canada do NOT belong on Argyle, for all the money we put into street upgrades.

I suspect those tenants are appealing to the landlords, who care about renting space and don't really care about the streetscapes beyond what they're forced to do by the city for a development agreement or because of bylaws. First there's just filling space, then, I would expect those kinds of government agencies are willing to sign long term leases.

In the case of the Convention Centre, it's been under construction and without tenants for a loooooong time, so I'm sure the developers care even less.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

First there's just filling space, then, I would expect those kinds of government agencies are willing to sign long term leases.

Ten-year leases and you know they'll pay the bills. Dream tenants for landlords. Crappy tenants for the street. One of the reasons some regulation is necessary to look out for the public interest.

[Keith P.]

You cannot regulate economic reality.

[IanWatson]

It's not about regulating economic reality. "Trying to regulate economic reality" would be a planning rule that says something like, "you MUST build a tiny home park on that site".

The economic reality of this site is that passport offices and ALC offices are more profitable than restaurants or active retail frontages, but it doesn't mean that restaurants or active retail frontages AREN'T profitable (as evidenced by the many, many other restaurants and retail frontages in downtown, and indeed on the rest of Argyle). I don't blame the landlords, if given the choice, for choosing a passport office over something more street-friendly, but less profitable. But we, as a society, don't have to give them that choice. Do you really think if HRM had designated that stretch of Argyle as a pedestrian commercial street, that Joe Ramia would not have built the Nova Centre? Or that he would have built it and left that frontage vacant?

The economic reality of making cars is that it's cheaper to make one without seatbelts, side view mirrors, and airbags. But we, as a society, have said we value those things and have taken that choice away from manufacturers. And so it is with a million other things.

EDIT: To put it more succinctly, I agree: you cannot regulate economic reality. But you CAN regulate WITHIN economic reality. The economic reality of that site is that there are a range of things that would economically work there, not just passport offices and ALC offices. Regulations that chose to allow only part of that economically-viable range would be successful.

[Keith P.]

The only way urban planners could be assured of having their beloved curbside restaurants and cafes operating where they want them is for govt to run those things themselves. Nobody bases a business case for a new development solely upon getting a restaurant tenant given the very high failure rate and turnover of such operations. The mindset of urban planners to micromanage every aspect of potential development in certain areas based upon textbook theory is what leads to empty lots and stagnant development activity.

[IanWatson]

Do you honestly, HONESTLY believe that if those prime spots on Argyle had not been allowed to have an ALC office or other "dead" storefront use that they would have sat vacant?

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

... The economic reality of making cars is that it's cheaper to make one without seatbelts, side view mirrors, and airbags. But we, as a society, have said we value those things and have taken that choice away from manufacturers...

This is true, and I am enjoying the comparison to uses that offer very little to the street and uses that encourage active use of the street.

Do you think there are any differences where cars are essentially consumer products - we buy, use and discard them for the most part - but streetscapes aren't consumed to the same extent. Or, maybe streetscapes ARE consumed?

[OldDartmouthMark]

FWIW, seat belts and airbags were determined to be safety items and thus were mandated by the government years ago. The equivalent in buildings would be the requirements for sprinkler systems and electrical circuit breakers, for example.

In the Argyle case, though, it would seem that this should fall under zoning laws.

I think it would be reasonable, since considerable public funds were invested to make Argyle Street a pedestrian-oriented experience, to require tenants to operate some kind of business that is in keeping with the theme of the street. Argyle street is a special location and thus should be treated as such.

This is done all the time, all over the city, so it shouldn't have been rocket science to make it happen on Argyle. It sounds to me that it just wasn't thought through carefully enough by the city, and now it's too late.

[planarchy]

Originally Posted by IanWatson

Do you honestly, HONESTLY believe that if those prime spots on Argyle had not been allowed to have an ALC office or other "dead" storefront use that they would have sat vacant?

I think the more important question is why ALC, as a government organization thinks its ok and necessary to lease prime retail space, when they can have space in an office tower for half the price. It looks so silly walking by this - its just a standard office space, with no obvious public component that requires a retail location.

[pblaauw]

The Sutton Place Hotel Halifax now has it's own webpage, and an official address at 1700 Grafton Street. I look in that "storefront" every time I go through the site, and can't picture it as a hotel lobby.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Grafton Street? Does that part of Grafton Street exist anymore?

I thought that Rogers bought it...

[pblaauw]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Grafton Street? Does that part of Grafton Street exist anymore?

I thought that Rogers bought it...

[OldDartmouthMark]

https://globalnews.ca/news/3773035/r...public-street/

Rogers Communications announced Wednesday it acquired naming rights to an outdoor plaza at the Nova Centre, a million-square-foot complex that includes the new Halifax Convention Centre, office space and a hotel.

The Halifax plaza – it will be surrounded on both sides and above by the Nova Centre – was previously part of Grafton Street, a downtown public thoroughfare running parallel to the base of the Halifax Citadel.

In a private meeting three years ago, Halifax council voted to sell the one-block section of Grafton to Argyle Developments Inc., the developer behind the Nova Centre.

The sale defied the city’s own urban planning rules, which cautioned against merging street blocks.

[Jonovision]

They gave up on pavers all together.

20190512_204106 by Jonovision23, on Flickr