Quote:
Originally Posted by maccoinnich
.... Anyway, the only real way to solve these issues is by grade separation - whether above ground or below. Given that all the urbanists would have conniptions at the idea of MAX being elevated through downtown, underground is the only realistic option.
Would I place a downtown subway as a higher priority than MAX along Powell and Barbur? No, and certainly not at today. But at some point in the future, if ridership grows and Trimet needs more capacity through downtown, then a subway is pretty much the only solution.
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Exactly!! That's all I'm saying.
I'm completely in favor of building out all the major corridors first. But then once that's done, the surface alignments downtown start to strangle the entire system. I never once said that the subway needed to be built now, and/or instead of expanding MAX and streetcar. That's not even being proposed here, by me or anyone.
And no, you cannot have 8-12 MAX lines running on the existing two surface alignments. That is physically impossible unless you're only running each line only once or twice an hour. It was a challenge just maintaining 3 lines (the Red, Blue and Yellow lines) on the same tracks downtown before the 5th/6th alignment was built, let alone SIX lines on the Morrison/Yamhill alignment. Also, adding the second surface alignment did not double the capacity because ALL the lines still use the same Steel Bridge tracks and they cross paths again at the Pioneer Courthouse, severely restricting any real gains in capacity. Simply adding more tracks to surface streets does nothing to improve MAX service if they're still held up at the same traffic lights, still conflicting with 1000's of cars, pedestrians, bikes, buses and streetcars, still crossing other MAX tracks at multiple congested downtown corners, still having to wait till the train at the platform 500-600 feet in front of it clears that platform before it can then proceed, still having to wait through 2 or sometimes 3 red light cycles to do so, still constricted to 2-car trains by the short 200' blocks.
As maccoinnich said, the ONLY solution is grade separation, and since elevated trains will never be considered for downtown, that leaves a subway alignment. 6mph from one end of downtown to the other (3 miles) means a 30 minute trip. That may be fine for streetcars as local circulators, but that's not acceptable for a regional rail system.