Lamenting the decline of the car

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by rofina

This is why Toyota will be just fine regardless of what happens in the ICE/EV wars;

That's as impressive of an endorsement as any auto manufacturer could ever hope for; actual reality that 50% of most travelled vehicles on the road are Toyota.

To say that's impressive engineering would be an understatement.

Toyota's secret sauce is the complete understanding of the supply chains and customers it serves.

Toyota basically completely understands its supply chains from the base materials to the final product.

To wit: Toyota learned from the 2011 Japan tsunami that its electronic chip supply chains were vulnerable to disruption and would basically completely impair its ability to manufacture vehicles. Toyota learned there wasn't tons of slack capacity in the semiconductor industry, or any slack that did exist was repurposed quickly. Thus in light of the pandemic, it didn't cancel chip contracts with suppliers while other manufacturers did. Toyota now reaps the reward of being able to produce reasonably well while others struggle because chip manufacturers don't led multi-billion dollar fab operations sit idle.

It also understands its customers. Toyota's customers want an appliance that works, mostly. They are not adventurous people who are on the leading edge. They want transportation. Reliable transportation that's reasonably painless and inexpensive to own. So, Toyota doesn't release half-baked ideas and doesn't use their customers as beta testers. If they do try a new idea, they confine it to a very narrow niche (see: original Toyota Prius) to see the real-world results. No, it doesn't mean that Toyota gets lots of glowing press, but it does get the dollars of customers who want reliable cars. Which do you think Toyota's stockholders prefer more? When an idea is fully baked and others have discovered its initial flaws, Toyota will be there.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

I know someone who manages a small fleet of F-150 pickups for work (5-6 trucks), and he says that they typically last around 300-350k before kicking the bucket, provided they don't get totalled first (which is probably the result for almost half of them across their lifetime.

A work-truck fleet is literally the most brutal existence.

They're unloved. Subjected to hard work. Maintenance is indifferent. Multiple drivers who are not generally the 'tender care and love' types, especially with the company's property.

Anything that goes past 300k under those conditions is decently well-engineered.

It's the people who brag about the garage queen "Don't get it dirty" trucks going 400k that make me scratch my head. It's a Clydesdale being used for leisure riding. Of course it'll last forever.

Older Volvos are pretty awesome as long as the rot doesn't set in.

[Architype]

I was driving the other night and noticed this Tesla taxi ahead of me, it turns out that was its first day in use. Apparently they are used as taxis now in some other places as well. Use as a taxi should be a good test of Tesla's durability. It seems the Prius has been the main taxi model in Vancouver for over ten years, the first one was in 2004.

Tesla taxi hits the road in Vancouver
...
Crunching the numbers showed that a monthly savings of $500 to $600 in gas, combined with several hundred dollars less per year to maintain an electric versus an internal combustion engine, would easily offset the purchase of a new $52,000 (plus tax) Tesla.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...uver-1.5737062

[Al Ski]

Originally Posted by Architype

I was driving the other night and noticed this Tesla taxi ahead of me, it turns out that was its first day in use. Apparently they are used as taxis now in some other places as well. Use as a taxi should be a good test of Tesla's durability. It seems the Prius has been the main taxi model in Vancouver for over ten years, the first one was in 2004.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...uver-1.5737062

I rode my first Tesla taxi in 2018 (the one with the gull-wing doors). They usually use Kia Souls and reserve the Teslas for their 'premium' service but luck of the draw resulted in a Tesla ride.
I don't use them often but electric taxis seem to be taking over in MTL. My last 4 rides have been electric.

[Al Ski]

Has anyone noticed that over 90% of cars in 2021 are either grey, black or white?
Or some dismal shade of blue that closely resembles black?
I find that odd.
I was walking down the street muttering "black, black, white, grey, white, black, grey, white, white, black, grey.." and my gf asked "wtf?"
I told her I was noting the 'colours' of the cars.
Now she does it too!
It can't be unseen!

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Al Ski

Has anyone noticed that over 90% of cars in 2021 are either grey, black or white?
Or some dismal shade of blue that closely resembles black?
I find that odd.
I was walking down the street muttering "black, black, white, grey, white, black, grey, white, white, black, grey.." and my gf asked "wtf?"
I told her I was noting the 'colours' of the cars.
Now she does it too!
It can't be unseen!

Probably the same reason most people wear drab colours - people don't like to stand out. Dealers also tend to keep more neutral colours in stock, because you're far more likely to find someone flat out refuse a yellow car than a black car.

With that being said, my last two fun cars have been yellow.

[esquire]

^ The 90s were a bit of a heyday for crazy bold colours but you certainly don't see that now. Personally I don't care all that much what colour my car is... the only time I drew the line was on an otherwise nice and well-priced late-model used SUV that was pink, as it was a former Mary Kay company car. That was a bit much.

---

Interesting chart that speaks to the idea behind this thread. I would be curious to see the province-by-province stats for Canada.


https://twitter.com/simongerman600/s...71207981961216

[Architype]

This is the typical selection, but blue is also often an option.

[Architype]

Compare that to 1957 Chevy paint colours.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ The 90s were a bit of a heyday for crazy bold colours but you certainly don't see that now. Personally I don't care all that much what colour my car is... the only time I drew the line was on an otherwise nice and well-priced late-model used SUV that was pink, as it was a former Mary Kay company car. That was a bit much.

---

Interesting chart that speaks to the idea behind this thread. I would be curious to see the province-by-province stats for Canada.


https://twitter.com/simongerman600/s...71207981961216

That is depressing as hell. There is no way that those trucks are all being used for 'truck' things. Canada wouldn't be much different. I'm surprised that Subaru isn't #1,2 or 3 in VT, NH or ME. I swear every other car I see when I'm there is a Subaru.

[Innsertnamehere]

Most cars offer a red and blue option at least. My Civic is blue.

Some offer some bolder colours, but they are definitely less common. Which is a damn shame.

Interesting to see that only 4 states don't have a pickup in the top 3, CA, NY, NJ, and CT. (DC also doesn't have a truck as it's best seller, but it's not a state.. so..)

Also, damn, Hawaii loves it's Toyotas.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Random thoughts to some of the above posts:

- 400,000 km is nothing for today's vehicles, no matter whether it's a truck, car, etc. Ask the service folks at the dealership next time you are there - they will tell you it's no big deal. Talking to random taxi drivers, most of them get 400K - 600K out of their cars, including one guy who had 900,000 km on his 2013 Accord. All they do is basic maintenance, with lots of stop and start driving - though one big thing in a taxi's favour is less cold starts per km compared to the average owner. Cold starts cause a large percentage of an engine's wear.

- The 'boring colour thing' has been going on for at least 20 years. I recall many years ago my wife pointing out that most cars on the road are some form of silver or grey, and recently white seems to have taken over top spot. Back then you could have any interior colour you wanted, as long as it was grey or beige. At least they have since added black with a sprinkling of red or brown seats on some vehicles as an option. As a fan of 1950s and 1960s cars, definitely people were more open to a vast colour palate back in the day. I recall it wasn't unusual to see an aqua/turquoise car with matching interior. Bright greens or blues were the norm, with several shades of each colour often available. Yellow, brown, burnt orange, reds, etc. were common as well. I wonder what that says about today's society, where people are afraid to stand out?

- As much as I keep hearing people talk about hydrogen FCVs as being the ultimate, I really don't get it. The only advantage I see is the ability to 'fill up' like today's petrol powered vehicles, which will be negated as battery/charging technology improves. The disadvantages are many, including increased complexity and cost, the requirement for a whole new fueling infrastructure to deliver a fuel that requires electricity or burning of other fuels to manufacture and pressurize it, etc. All to just mimic what we already have, with questionable improvement in carbon footprint, once you consider the manufacture of the extra hydrogen fuel cell parts, the manufacture of the H2, etc.

- Toyota is a huge company with amazing capabilities, but they are not infallible. There was a time that if somebody said that GM might fail someday, they would get laughed at. That said, though, they are very good at what they do, especially manufacturing. If you pay attention to things like that, check out their panel fit, door gaps, seam sealer application, etc. etc. It's all done very well, and no more than it needs to be - and each car is the same. That's a huge feat that gets lost among most people. For the most part, though, their cars are boring as shit to drive, which is why I will probably never own one - after driving some of them over the years, each time I recall wondering to myself whether anybody ever falls asleep while driving them, for lack of excitement...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

For the most part, though, their cars are boring as shit to drive, which is why I will probably never own one - after driving some of them over the years, each time I recall wondering to myself whether anybody ever falls asleep while driving them, for lack of excitement...

What kind of excitement are you all deriving from your cars? I have rented just about every type of common make including various types of sports and luxury cars and from my perspective they are pretty much interchangeable. Even a BMW M-series sedan or a Ford Mustang... start it up, vroom vroom, then drive it around in traffic no different than a Honda Civic.

Or all you all driving Ferraris that you take out to the track on the regular?

[Innsertnamehere]

Trust me, even in regular traffic a Corolla is a snooze compared to even a Civic. Those things drive like boats, just no road feel on corners, absolutely anemic acceleration, etc.

They are clearly for people like you Esquire, who don't care too much about that kind of thing and just want to get from point A to point B.

My Volvo's core parts are apparently healthy and I should get a good amount of extra kms out of it, but lots of other things are going on it, mostly electronic features. Blind Spot awareness has been faulty for years, the sensor for my hood being open is broken (the hood is closed, don't worry), The bluetooth phone connection only works some of the time, etc.

I feel like that will be a bigger issue with new cars coming out these days than core mechanics, with the many forms of electronic gadgetry failing well before the transmission or engine.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Trust me, even in regular traffic a Corolla is a snooze compared to even a Civic. Those things drive like boats, just no road feel on corners, absolutely anemic acceleration, etc.

They are clearly for people like you Esquire, who don't care too much about that kind of thing and just want to get from point A to point B.

Ha. Guilty as charged. I cannot relate to people who find cars and driving exciting, unless they are involved somehow in actual race car driving.

If I was in charge, one of my first acts would be to require all non-emergency vehicles to have engines restricted to 100 km/h max speed.

[WarrenC12]

I drove a Toyota for years, now a Tesla. Sure the Tesla is more fun to drive, but I didn't hate the Toyota.

Not commuting to work is a huge benefit. I used to hate commuting, and by association, driving. Now I look forward to it.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I drove a Toyota for years, now a Tesla. Sure the Tesla is more fun to drive, but I didn't hate the Toyota.

Not commuting to work is a huge benefit. I used to hate commuting, and by association, driving. Now I look forward to it.

Commuting almost cant be called driving.

On a highway, exploring, I can drive for hours. I love it.

Stuck in traffic in the City? I want to end my existence.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Al Ski

Has anyone noticed that over 90% of cars in 2021 are either grey, black or white?
Or some dismal shade of blue that closely resembles black?
I find that odd.
I was walking down the street muttering "black, black, white, grey, white, black, grey, white, white, black, grey.." and my gf asked "wtf?"
I told her I was noting the 'colours' of the cars.
Now she does it too!
It can't be unseen!

Yes, it is dismal. partly because so many cars are leased the dealers want non-polarizing colours that anyone will buy when it comes back on the lot.

Just as bad are the "you can have any interior colour as long as its black" manufacturers. Way too dark for Vancouver winters. I won't buy a Honda because they seemingly no longer offer any interior colour choice in Canada.

The Germans (BMW, Mercedes) seem to offer the best choice of interior and exterior colours, along now with Genesis.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by esquire

What kind of excitement are you all deriving from your cars? I have rented just about every type of common make including various types of sports and luxury cars and from my perspective they are pretty much interchangeable. Even a BMW M-series sedan or a Ford Mustang... start it up, vroom vroom, then drive it around in traffic no different than a Honda Civic.

Or all you all driving Ferraris that you take out to the track on the regular?

I can't speak for others, but no two cars feel alike to me. The nuances of each immediately jump out to me, but some aren't even nuances - they are in-your-face obvious differences.

I could literally write for pages on this, but for me the major things are power, throttle response, transmission function (including gear ratios, smoothness/crispness of function, responsiveness, clutch takeup for manuals, etc.), suspension/steering feel and behaviour in quick maneuvers (which is actually a safety feature in emergency situations) or over varying surfaces, nice linear brake pedal feel without fade, precise response to steering inputs, ergonomics, exhaust note (doesn't apply to EVs... lol), blah blah blah. I could go on, but won't.

Parallel to this, I consider driving to be a craft that lends itself to constant improvement. The further you push yourself to develop your craft, the more appreciation you feel when your car responds well to your inputs... and the more frustrated you feel when you think that the engineers who designed your car didn't really care about it (i.e. insertnamehere's comment about the Corolla, with which I agree).

Reading your later comment, I realize that you don't really care about driving, which is fine. It puts you in the same category as most people who drive - it's a tool to accomplish the goal of getting somewhere. There's nothing wrong with that, and it's to be expected that somebody with that mindset may not have a clear understanding of how and why driving may be interesting and exciting to some - and that's who Toyota builds cars for (and there's nothing wrong with that either).

The downside to lack of interest in driving is when those who don't care about it seem to think they know so much about it that they don't even have to pay attention to it, so they text or talk on their phone or fiddle with something in the console or seat beside them rather than watching the road while doing 20 km/h over the speed limit... but that's another topic entirely...

FWIW, yes, I have raced on tracks in the past, but you don't have to drive like an idiot on the road to appreciate what your car is giving back to you. I also think that the concept of having a high top speed on a car designed to be driven on public roads is silly. You don't honestly have to exceed the speed limit to truly enjoy your car, you just have to learn to understand what it's doing or not doing... and to care enough to pay attention to it.

Just my opinion, as usual. And don't get me wrong, I have huge respect for Toyota's build quality and reliability, they are just less fun to drive than just about any other car on the road...

[esquire]

^ I've never owned a Toyota, but I feel like I should look into them now