NEW YORK | Penn Station / MSG Renovation

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by BuildThemTaller

This is unrelated to Moynihan Train Hall and Penn Station. MSG is almost ready to open a new venue in Las Vegas, the MSG Sphere. It's a performance venue wrapped in an LED panel. It relates to this thread in that it shows how the company is more than just Madison Square Garden in Manhattan.

Yeah, I posted some photos of that MSG Sphere. It's been taking a while to complete. But MSG is more than just the Garden. They also operate Radio City and the Beacon Theater in New York, and the Chicago Theater in - Chicago.



https://www.constructionequipmentgui...-rebuild/61635

Gov. Hochul Tells Architects to Proceed With Designs for NYC's Penn Station Rebuild


JULY 05, 2023

At a recent press conference, Hochul revealed that her office had given the "notice to proceed" on preliminary design to improve Penn Station to the design team of FXCollaborative Architects LLP, WSP USA Inc., both based in the city, and the British architecture firm John McAslan + Partners.

Since announcing that group's award for the design last September, the last 10 months have been spent finalizing a "design governance agreement" among the three railroad agencies that use the station: the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA), Amtrak and NJ Transit.

Nearly a year ago, many of the same officials gathered to announce the Penn Station design process, including Gov. Phil Murphy, but at Hochul's recent announcement, the New Jersey governor was not in attendance as the congestion pricing controversy heightened between the two states.

"New Jersey has made no commitment beyond conceptual design as presented last summer," a Murphy spokesperson said, and is open to all options on the drawing board, particularly those that best fuse Penn Station's renovations with future plans to expand the station.

.....Hochul explained that the design for Penn Station's renovation is no longer dependent on a prior controversial plan that hinged improvements — and their funding — on real estate developments going up around the station, with as many as eight new skyscrapers.

Instead, she said construction of new office, retail and residential space could take place sometime in the future, but for now, the focus is on the commuter experience.

The FX Collaborative, WSP and John McAslan group was chosen through a competitive process last year for a base contract of $57.9 million to do preliminary designs of the station. That cost is being split equally between the three railroad agencies involved.

Their work of the designers and engineers will build on the MTA Penn Station master planning effort that took place in consultation with Amtrak and NJ Transit, the former being the landlord of the station and the latter being the only other transit user of the station after Amtrak moved its operations next door to Moynihan Train Hall.

The estimated $7 billion vision would focus on the eastern side of the station toward Seventh Avenue — where some 70 percent of foot traffic is concentrated — with the centerpiece being a glassy greenhouse-looking archway known as the mid-block train hall.

Among the points of contention are figuring out how MSG will be involved in these improvements, including whether the Hulu Theater on Eighth Avenue should be dismantled and whether MSG should help fund the construction costs for renovation.

The MTA is leaning toward leaving MSG's Hulu Theater untouched but building a sloped glass frame around the Eighth Avenue side of Penn Station with improved entrances on the corners of the structure along that street.

"There are different ideas and we're going to look at all of them," said Janno Lieber, head of the MTA. "Whatever we do, the Eighth Avenue experience on Penn can and will be changed, even if you don't take out the Hulu Theater."

Meanwhile, ASTM North America, a Nanuet, N.Y., design and architecture firm, has stacked its team with Pat Foye, the former head of the MTA, and Vishaan Chakrabarti, an architect who has been involved in Penn Station plans for decades, including for the Bloomberg administration.

That company has proposed a fundamentally different vision for Penn Station that focuses more on the Eighth Avenue side where they anticipate more growth from Hudson Yards development. This design team would take out the Hulu Theater and replace it with a grand, avenue-centered entrance using classical stone rectangular-looking columns.

ASTM also proposed a model where it would operate and maintain the facility for 50 years, receiving "availability payments" from the three railroads, or roughly $250 million annually with a return on ASTM's upfront equity between 8 percent and 11 percent. There would be no upfront cost for New Jersey; rather, payments would begin once construction begins to pay back the federal loans and return on equity.

John McCarthy, an MTA spokesperson, said the agency has not been presented with a detailed report of ASTM's cost estimates for their proposal.

"If ASTM is able to deliver the project at a lower cost than our estimate, we would welcome their proposal when we competitively solicit bids from design teams at the conclusion of the preliminary design phase now underway," he said in a statement.

For now, the FX collaboration team is expected to deliver 30 percent of the design before the end of 2023. After that, the MTA will put out another solicitation for bids to do final design and construction, which ASTM will be eligible to compete for. This leaves the door open to ideas outside of those envisioned by the FX team.

Other issues that will need to be addressed include how changes to Penn Station will account for potential expansion of the station to the south with proposed new tracks that would connect to the two new Gateway tunnels that are in the early phases of construction and near a federal grant agreement.

[JZeig1]

"Hudson Tunnel Project to Get $6.9 Billion in Largest U.S. Transit Grant"



"https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/06/n...l-gateway.html

[NYguy]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...unnel-project/

Today’s announcement officially begins the Engineering phase of the project and allows the Gateway Development Commission (GDC) to begin early actions like utility relocations, critical real estate acquisitions, demolition, procurement of specialized equipment and materials, and further design.

GDC also may request pre-award authority from FTA to conduct specific construction activities. If the project sponsor meets all CIG statutory requirements of the Engineering phase, such as securing non-federal matching funds, the Administration will consider awarding a Full Funding Grant Agreement for up to $6.88 billion for the Gateway Hudson River Tunnel project.

The overall Gateway Hudson River Tunnel project is a $17.18 billion investment that will improve resilience, reliability, and redundancy for New Jersey Transit (NJ Transit) and the National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) train service between New York and New Jersey. The project will reduce commute times for NJ Transit riders, enhance Amtrak reliability on the Northeast Corridor (NEC), and support the northeast regional economy. Amtrak expects the Hudson River Tunnel project will result in 72,000 direct and indirect jobs during construction with union partnerships for job training.

The existing North River Tunnel is over 100 years old and opened for service in 1910. Built to early 20th century standards, it is the only passenger rail tunnel connecting New York and New Jersey and facilitates more than 200,000 passenger trips per weekday on more than 450 Amtrak and NJ Transit trains servicing New York Penn Station.

The existing tunnel has two tubes with one track each and has reached its full capacity of 24 trains per hour, causing bottlenecks and delays. When one track goes out of service for any reason, trains have to wait to go through the other working tube. This creates bottlenecks and delays for NJ Transit commuters and Amtrak travelers that cascade throughout the Northeast Corridor. Beyond its age and regular maintenance, in 2012, millions of gallons of salt water flooded into the tunnel during Superstorm Sandy. Even today, the remnants of seawater that entered the tunnel in 2012 continue to harm the concrete, steel, tracks and third rail, signaling, and electrical components within the tunnel.

To address those challenges, the Hudson River Tunnel Project will rehabilitate the old North River Tunnel; build a new tunnel beneath the Palisades, the Hudson River, and the waterfront area in Manhattan; construct a new surface alignment from Secaucus to the new tunnel portal in North Bergen; construct ventilation shafts and fan plants in New Jersey and New York; and make track modifications near Penn Station. When the project is done, the redundant capacity provided by a second tunnel will mean fewer delays and less risk for catastrophic disruption.

The Hudson River Tunnel project is part of the larger Gateway Program which envisions expanding and rebuilding the rail line between Newark, New Jersey and New York City through a number of projects, including the new Portal North Bridge, which broke ground last year and is supported by over $1 billion in federal transportation funding.

[NYguy]

https://commercialobserver.com/2023/...but-at-a-cost/

Madison Square Garden Could Remain Above Penn Station, But at a Cost


BY MARK HALLUM
JULY 10, 2023

Madison Square Garden (MSG) will have to jump through some hoops if it wants to stay in Midtown.

The Department of City Planning will vote this week on whether to renew MSG’s special permit to remain on top of Pennsylvania Station. Even if the permit is approved, it will come with a host of obligations for the arena that will require it to add public improvements and help facilitate Penn Station’s rebuild.

The special permit also includes a text amendment requiring improved pedestrian circulation, public space, an improved truck loading facility and a contingent that will require MSG return to DCP to prove that the 25,000-seat venue will be compatible with Penn Station once the design phase is 30 percent complete.

DCP is scheduled to vote Wednesday on Commissioner Dan Garodnick’s recommendation to grant the special permit and the text amendment, after which it will go before the New York City Council for passage. As of Monday afternoon, the agency was still ironing out how long the renewal would last.

”We know that there are a number of plans being considered, but it is DCP’s view that New Yorkers cannot wait for those plans for Penn Station to be finalized in order to benefit from these significant improvements to the area around MSG,” Garodnick said Monday. “There are a number of ambitious proposals for the future of Penn Station, which are intertwined with the operations of MSG … and MSG has committed to collaborating with them. But we won’t just take them at their word.”

MSG officials will need to present their traffic management and public improvement plans to DCP in six months. If it misses the deadline or the proposals aren’t up to snuff, the Garden could be considered in “violation of the special permit,” according to Garodnick.

The venue did not immediately respond to a request for comment, but DCP said MSG already agreed to the amendments in writing.

[NYguy]

https://nypost.com/2023/07/11/msg-co...n-is-approved/

MSG could score $500M if Italian firm’s plan to update Penn Station is approved


By Nolan Hicks
July 11, 2023

The Italian firm pitching a controversial plan as part of Penn Station’s reconstruction netted assistance from the owners of Madison Square Garden, which could score MSG a half-billion dollar payout, records show.

The plan offered by ASTM Group, a major player in global infrastructure, would require buying MSG’s Hulu Theater from the complex’s owner, James Dolan, before demolishing it to make room for the firm’s proposed new grand train hall on 8th Avenue.

ASTM expects roughly $500 million to purchase the theater from the billionaire owner of the New York Knicks and Rangers, according to briefing materials provided to reporters.

Internally, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials view ASTM as a foil for Dolan — which a source close to MSG denies.

“Recognizing that the decision on which plan goes forward is not ours to make, we look forward to collaborating with all key stakeholders on improving Penn Station,” said an MSG spokeswoman in a statement.

MSG acknowledged offering assistance in filings made with the City Planning Commission, though ASTM is not explicitly named.

Both plans would consolidate Penn Station’s split levels into a single concourse, allowing designers and engineers to install vastly higher ceilings and wider passageways.

The fight centers on the location of the new train hall.

Instead of facing 8th Avenue, Lieber wants a dramatic hall between 7th and 8th Avenues with vaulted ceilings stretching roughly 100 feet into the sky, bringing sunlight into the complex for the first time since the original Penn Station was demolished in the 1960s.

The MTA would find the space by ripping out the skybridge that links MSG to the neighboring office building, 2 Penn Plaza.

MSG has pushed back hard, arguing that removing the skybridge would mean relocating key utilities — including its cooling systems — and could interrupt the operations of the arena. The MTA has dismissed those worries and countered that demolishing the Hulu Theater would also be complicated.

The MTA estimates its plan would cost $7 billion. ASTM claims it could get the construction done for $1 billion less.

But the firm is pitching the improvements as part of a larger 50-year deal to operate the station that would cost the MTA, New Jersey Transit and Amtrak a combined $250 million annually — $12.5 billion overall.

“It was a no-brainer for ASTM North America to take up the open offer to retain engineering experts with incomparable knowledge of Penn Station and its connection to MSG at our own cost,” said a spokesman for ASTM, “which is why we can offer a more detailed, robust proposal that can be delivered faster and cheaper.

[NYguy]

MSG and Motnihan the past couple of weeks…

[NYguy]

ASTM presented their proposal to CB5....

[NYguy]

https://nypost.com/2023/07/18/ex-mta...aws-watchdogs/

Ex-MTA chief Pat Foye may have violated ethics laws with Penn Station, MSG contract: watchdogs


By Nolan Hicks
July 18, 2023

New York’s ex-transit chief may have violated state ethics laws by leading a $12.5 billion bid to reconstruct and operate Penn Station, government watchdogs say.

Pat Foye, the former MTA chairman, now consults for Italian transportation conglomerate ASTM, which has jumped into the design competition with a plan that would net Madison Square Garden a $500 million payout, a proposal that the arena helped along by providing engineering assistance.

“He was a powerful person in a very powerful position in state government, now he’s on the outside trying to help his new employer get business with the state,” said Blair Horner, the head of the good government watchdog New York Public Interest Research Group.

Horner and two other ethics experts said that Foye’s activities appeared to run afoul of conflict-of-interest protections unless the ex-MTA honcho obtained a waiver from the state’s ethics enforcer or the Commission on Ethics and Lobbying in Government.

Representatives for Foye refused to say if he obtained a waiver and argued the rules did not apply because the MTA does not technically own Penn Station.

“Any suggestion that he has violated ethical standards is at war with facts and the law as we know them,” said Foye’s attorney, William Wachtel.

“Penn Station is owned by Amtrak, and as such, any revitalization plans will be determined by Amtrak in partnership with New York, New Jersey, and the federal government,” he added.

Federal records show the MTA is leading the charge on Penn’s reconstruction in partnership with Amtrak and NJ Transit, putting Foye’s former agency at the heart of the fight.

“Given that Penn Station’s redesign is being led by the MTA, a state authority, the state’s ethics commission is the appropriate body to give guidance about the state’s revolving door rules for ongoing work on this major project,” said Rachael Fauss, a top expert on government contracting at the watchdog group, Reinvent Albany.

[NYguy]

https://citylimits.org/2023/07/18/op...ations-future/

Opinion: A Critical Point for Penn Station’s Future


By Charles Lauster.
July 18, 2023

Charles Lauster is an architect in New York City.

The New York Metropolitan Area is over 4,000 square miles in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut and is home to 20 million people. Its 2020 Gross Domestic Product was over $1.8 trillion dollars, the most of any metro area in the country. To maximize the productive potential of those 20 million and to provide them with world-class, sustainable transit, a modern rail system needs to knit the entire region together.

The two key points for such a rail transit system are Grand Central Terminal and Penn Station. Those two stations were the dead ends of the private railroads that collapsed in the mid-20th century. If they are linked for through-traffic, the entire Metropolitan Area can be served by the existing Long Island, Metro North and New Jersey Transit commuter lines.

The new Grand Central Madison station (formally the East Side Access) brings the LIRR to Grand Central Terminal and creates the possibility to reach Penn Station. That new station has four tracks that today continue five blocks south of 42nd Street for cleaning and servicing purposes. Extend those tracks another four blocks and one-seat through-traffic from New Jersey through Penn Station to Grand Central Madison, and on to the Metro North and Long Island systems, becomes possible.

With this year’s opening of the Grand Central Madison station, Grand Central Terminal is almost ready for regional operation. Penn Station is utterly unready. In fact, it is a potential wreck.

Penn Station serves 600,000 passengers daily and is America’s busiest rail hub. Today it is at capacity. What is overwhelmingly most important in a train station is not the appearance of its waiting room but its tracks and platforms. The tracks move the trains and the platforms move the passengers. The 21 tracks and 11 platforms in Penn Station today are the most that it can accommodate.

Worse, the platforms, mostly dating from 1910, are too narrow to handle arriving and departing passengers at the same time. The platforms need to be emptied of arrivals before the waiting passengers can be allowed to descend to the trains. Not only are the platforms too narrow, they are obstructed by the many concrete columns supporting Madison Square Garden. The intense crowding then restricts the movement of the trains.

The tracks themselves are also in crisis. In 2012, Hurricane Sandy did serious damage to the only two tunnels connecting the station with New Jersey. The tracks in each tunnel carry both Amtrak and New Jersey Transit trains. If they failed it would be a catastrophe for the entire northeast. The Gateway program to build two new tunnels began construction this year, but there is currently no space for the new tracks and platforms the new tunnels will bring to the station.

Finally, there is the need to rebuild tracks and platforms to take advantage of the connection of Penn Station with Grand Central Madison and the creation of through-traffic. As originally built over 100 years ago, both stations were terminal stations. Trains enter the station on a track and reverse to leave on the same track. This results in congestion as incoming and outgoing trains intersect at the station entrance. Through-tracks greatly reduce congestion and increase capacity as trains enter the station on one side of the station and then depart continuing in the same direction to the exit on the opposite side. Also, the platforms serving the tracks are wider, allowing passengers to leave on one side of the train while boarding riders enter on the opposite side. Through-service means that the current requirement of switching commuter lines to travel the region can be greatly reduced.

The currently discussed design to bring light into the waiting platform proposed by the European engineering firm ASTM does nothing to address either the platform or track issues, let alone through-service to the region. The plan involves removing the theater at MSG facing 8th Avenue and opening a glazed perimeter around the existing Garden. While it would allow passengers exiting to both 7th and 8th Avenues, the main orientation would be to 8th Avenue, not where most commuters are heading.

More problematic, as current renderings show, a southern extension of the station to accommodate new tracks and platforms would appear to be cut off. In short, the scheme would merely make waiting to get down to your train on a 113-year-old platform a bit more pleasant while making serious modernization far more difficult.

[NYguy]

• Video Link

[NYguy]

The earlier response to the though-running issue...




































































































https://www.ourtownny.com/news/mta-s...lans-DX2660050

MTA’s Pres of Construction Gives Wide Ranging Interview on Penn Station Rebuild Plans



KEITH J. KELLY -MICHAEL ORESKES
04 AUG 2023

It is one of New York City’s most complex public building challenges ever. Improving the dismal Penn Station, with options constrained by the presence of it’s neighbor above, Madison Square Garden. The MTA, which runs the Long Island Railroad and Metro North is leading the reconstruction project on behalf of Penn Station’s owner, Amtrak and its other major user, New Jersey Transit. The questions pile one on top of another, much as Madison Square Garden is piled atop the cramped station and the even more cramped platforms.

The City Council will decide this month whether to give The Garden a new permit to operateits 20,000 seat arena above the station and under what terms. An Italian developer says it has a $6 billion plan for reconstructing Penn Station that will be both better and cheaper than the MTA’s $7 billion plan, even though ASTM would pay Madison Square Garden half a billion dollars for some of its property, which the MTA does not want to do.

In the meantime, community and planning activists have stepped up their effort to get the three railroads to reconsider their separate but related plan to expand the terminal to the south, taking down an adjoining block, to make way for more trains from New Jersey after a new Hudson river tunnel is finished. Straus News sat down with the official in charge of rebuilding Penn Station, Jamie TorresSpringer, President of MTA Construction and Development.

In a wide ranging interview Torres Springer said he was skeptical of the Italian firms cost estimates. “Its not putting a finger in the air based on some Starchitect drawings,” he said. He also said he believed it was unlikely that the railroads could replace expansion of PennStation by running LIRR and NJ Transit trains through Penn Station instead of terminating ther. e. Andy Byford, the one-time head of NYC’s subways and buses who now works for Amtrak created a stir with recently by floating the idea of “through running” trains. “We just don’t have the space,” Torres-Springer said of the station’s tracks and platforms.

Straus News: The last time our readers heard from you was your testimony at the City Council in which, among other things, you said you thought the Council shouldn’t grant a new operating permit to Madison Square Garden until you’d been able to reach an agreement with the Garden on what they needed to do to support Penn reconstruction. Where does that stand?

Torres-Springer: It stands were it stood then. We haven’t heard a word from Madison Square Garden. We’re awaiting that.

Straus News: The Council doesn’t seem likely to wait for that to happen?

Torres-Springer: It’s up to them. the city both through the Planning Commission and through the Council have asked the railroads to help to understand what it would take to make the arena compatible with the station. We’ve given them that information. We can talk about the specifics of what those things are. They’re not particularly difficult things to achieve. So if the question that they’re asking us is, ‘has Madison Square Garden done anything to come to an agreement with us that would insure compatibility?’ the answer is, no. They’ll have to decide what the implications of that are for the process.

Straus News: The Italian developer, ASTM, has gotten a lot of attention for their proposal to rebuild Penn Station and have asked the railroads to issue a Request for Proposals in which they could bid to be the overall developer in a public private partnership with the railroads. That is different from the RFP you’ve talked about?

Torres-Springer: There is a lot of dialogue that is confusing a lot of these issues. Led by Governor [Kathy] Hochul, we have a master plan, all three railroads, for the reconstruction of Penn Station for its predominantly seventh avenue, 600,000 daily riders ...We are proceeding with that reconstruction project. We are in what’s called preliminary design. And when you do preliminary design–the station is enormously complex–we have a lot of work to do. When your done with that work, then you go out to seek your contractor, or your builder in an RFP process. We haven’t determined the best way to deliver yet. The RFP could be design/build. It could be p3 [Public Private Partnership]. It could be design then build. There will be that RFP that comes out at that stage. And that’s how the project will get built after we are through that preliminary stage of design.

Straus News: So the version they’ve proposed is one of several possibilities?

Torres-Springer: We would welcome their responding to our RFP when we’ve advanced designs sufficiently. ASTM is a private equity firm based in Italy, but that owns a contractor called Halmar. Halmar is a very good contractor for us.

Straus News: they’ve done other work for you?

Torres-Springer: Oh, yea. They are building Metro North Penn station access for us. They very successfully delivered the third track project to Long island. They are rebuilding the Park Avenue viaduct for us. They’re doing our first p3, which is the improvement of ADA stations that we awarded them at the end of last year. So when we come out with an RFP, or some sort of procurement to proceed with rebuilding the station, we welcome them to respond. Andthere are opportunities there–this is really the new MTA, and how we deliver more efficiently—for the contractor to come back and say we think you could do things differently. We think you could do it this way. We think you could do it that way. You could finance it differently. And then we get to take advantage of that. I have no idea where their cost estimate comes from. I see no information about it other than them coming out in public and saying it will cost $6 billion not $7 billion. But if its really true they can save us a billion dollars that’s great. And we really welcome them to enter the competition to deliver the project.

Straus News: One of the biggest differences in cost estimates seems to be their argument that you don’t need to rebuild that bridge that runs above the taxiway and brings fans from Seventh Avenue into Madison Square Garden.

Torres-Springer: I’m really not sure. I don’t know anything about their cost estimates. They allege that they are building our plan exactly. There has been some talk about not rebuilding the bridge. But then adding this Hulu Theatre, which is a billion to two billion dollars. By adding that it significantly increases the cost .... when we produce a cost estimate we have to do it to meet the requirements of the Federal Railroad Administration. It’s a serious business. Its not putting a finger in the air based on some Starchitect drawings. We have to include the cost of all the track outages. The flagging. The support. We have program management and project management. We have to make sure all those things are in. I suspect you’re seeing an estimate from a group that hasn’t included all those things.

As to the bridge. The governors vision and the vision of the three railroads is a vision that focuses on improving Penn Station for the majority of the people who use it. We look a the whole Penn precinct. 70 percent of riders are on the seventh avenue side of the station. Another 30 percent are on the eight avenue side. Only 15 percent are coming into Eight avenue or leaving from Eight avenue. The other 15 percent are using the A, C and E Eighth Avenue lines. And those users to the extent that they’re using Amtrak trains already have Moynihan train hall. So our focus has been on the Seventh Avenue side of the station. Creating a midblock train hall in that location, with the soaring height and natural light, is a huge opportunity for us to better serve those passengers and also to make the station more safe. Because this is all about making sure we can contain smoke in an emergency and maintain a tenable concourse. It means you need vertical height for smoke to rise into so that people have time to egress from the station. So all of that is going into this midblock train hall concept.

And yes our master plan has us rebuilding the chase square bridge which sits in the middle ofthat train hall. If we are going to spend money -- precious public dollars -- on improving PennStation we want to focus that energy on the Seventh avenue side. That’s why that’s our plan.But we are further evaluating it as we move through design.

Straus News: Are you also further evaluating ASTM’s proposal to buy the hulu theathre from Madison Square Garden and demolish it to create a grand entrance and train hall on Eight Avenue?

Torres-Springer: Yes, we will look at Eighth Avenue entrances. We will also look at loading which is a very important question. MSG is really loading either on the public street or in view of the public street. And our plan has an indoor loading facility within it. And we are going to look at that further and make sure that we’ve got the best possible plan for loading.

Straus News: One of the biggest flashpoints has been block 780 which is one of the complexities. It is yet a third issue. Demolishing the block south of Penn Station to make way for an expanded terminal for New Jersey Transit. Can you say a little but about Penn expansion and through running and where you see that at this point.

Torres-Springer: I would really recommend talking to Amtrak about that. Just as the MTA has the majority of the current riders of penn station–long island railroad riders and subway riders–and so we are somewhat managing acting on behalf of the group of three railroads on Penn reconstruction. I think Amtrak and New Jersey Transit are doing something similar on the expansion. Because the expansion is really going to serve those riders. I mean we are partners in this. We support doing the work in the same way they support doing the work that we are doing in Penn reconstruction. But that’s a good question to ask them, just to pursue it slightly.

Advocates have argued that running trains through the station would alleviate the need for expansion and the destruction of block 780. Through running involves New Jersey Transit, obviously. But it also involves the Long Island Rail Road and potentially even Metro North. It depends what you mean by through running. We are doing a study to look at alternatives for through running that should be done soon....We’ve been looking at those questions of whether through running is viable through the existing station or whether it really is more appropriate to achieve it through an expansion of the station.

Straus News: So the 2017 study that was recently reported was actually a piece of this larger study?

Torres-Springer: Right. It was a white paper of sorts that was done as part of this master plan for Penn Reconstruction and it gave us some helpful preliminary insight. But as you said we are into enviornmental review under the federal NEPA standards and that we are doing a fuller study building on that analysis that was done.

Straus News: how would you characterize the prelimary findings of that report.

Torres-Springer: I will say the report in a preliminary way determined that there was not really a viable path to building out the existing station for through running. But we are going to confirm that through this more rigourous study. Its about the limitation on the amount of track we have and the size of the platforms. To bring trains in and through in more of a through running mode you just need more room for passengers to wait on platforms, board and alight the trains. We just don’t have that space. Penn Station was built for 200,000 riders and it’s carrying 600,000 riders a day. We are trying to improve the experience for those 600,000 riders. Adding more riders and more capacity is really challenging. Its not just about Penn Station it’s also about what leads into Penn Station from both sides. The East River tunnels. What’s underneath Manhattan. Where you go under the Hudson. There is a real feasibility limitation on expanding the capacity of existing Penn. That I think leads us to the likelihood that it’s the expansion where you could do more train movements like that. But as I said we are researching it. We’re studying it and we’ll be out with something. ....It’s the same three railroads doing it together but its under an environmental review contract.

Straus News: Would moving the Garden allow you to do things you couldn’t otherwise do by pulling out presumably many of the columns that run down to the platforms and support the arena?

Torres-Springer: I’m really a little out of my depth here. But I really don’t think so. The Gardens columns are a problem. But it’s sort of marginal compared to the bigger capacity problems we have in the existing train shed.

Straus News: The public is often confused by all the intersecting and overlapping elements of this situation.

Torres-Springer: There are a lot of moving parts. But our guiding star here is: we have 600,000 people every day in the rabbit warrens of Penn Station having an uncomfortable experience that is not safe. And so we are laser focused on improving the existing Penn Station. You areright, there are lots of other things going on. But we are designing the improvements. We aredoing the environmental review and we are moving to actually getting work done before 2027when metro north penn access comes into penn and its going to be more difficult for us to get the outages that we need to work. That’s what we are about at the MTA. We are doing it in partnership with the railroads. So we just stay focused on that.

[NYguy]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic..._medium=social

NYC’s Long-Awaited Rail Tunnel Set to Get Shovels in the Ground
-Tunnel under Hudson not expected to be completed until 2035
-Construction in Hudson Yards to start in coming weeks


By Skylar Woodhouse
August 10, 2023

Evidence of the $16.1 billion, long-delayed, once-canceled effort to build a new tunnel linking New York and New Jersey will finally start appearing on Manhattan streets in the coming weeks.

Work is set to begin in Hudson Yards, the waterfront neighborhood on Manhattan’s west side, on a link to connect Penn Station with the Hudson Tunnel, the new regional and commuter rail link known as the Gateway project.

“I didn’t think a year ago that we were gonna be in a position where I could say, wow, we’re gonna see a shovel in the ground,” said Alicia Glen, New York commissioner and co-chair of the Gateway Development Commission, in an interview Wednesday. “But I feel pretty good about that.”

Construction was able to move forward after President Joe Biden announced a $292 million grant in January, allowing the commission in May to award a contract to Amtrak to begin work on the Hudson Yards link.

“I have never seen such tremendous movement that we’ve seen in the past year,” said Glen’s New Jersey counterpart, Balpreet Grewal-Virk.

Gateway is key to easing congestion under the Hudson River, a choke point on the Northeast Corridor that runs between Boston and Washington, the country’s busiest passenger-train route. The existing tunnel is more than a century old and increasingly unreliable, Amtrak says.

Efforts to build a new tunnel have been underway since the 1990s but have been plagued by delays.

A predecessor tunnel project, with full funding in place, had started construction when it was canceled by then-New Jersey Governor Chris Christie in 2010, who said the state couldn’t afford it. Gateway was proposed a year later but stalled under the Trump administration.

“We are going to put whatever sort of negative juju there had been about this project over the past ten years aside, and just concentrate on getting it done,” Glen said.

[NYguy]

Glad to see this is all coming along.

Meanwhile, the approach and columns of the new Portal Bridge, another part of the Gateway project, are taking shape....



• Video Link

[NYguy]

• Video Link

[NYguy]

From the meeting, same information from the report, discussion centered on how the process plays out.

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[HyperPower]

With Vornado finishing up demolition at Hotel Penn and trying to sure up liquidity with the tightening commercial real estate market + higher interest rates, their next move will probably continue demo with their Manhattan Mall/100 WEST 33RD STREET which is almost vacant except one store. Its a potential site to move the aging and most certainly in the way MSG.

From June 20th
https://www.archpaper.com/2023/06/co...ovation-plans/

The lost dream or future? MSG did state last April a willingness to move east...

[mrnyc]

aaaaand they’re back to tusseling again —




Penn Station overhaul sparks feud between MTA and Amtrak

By Stephen Nessen
Published Aug 25, 2023


The MTA’s $7 billion plan to renovate Penn Station got off to a rocky start last month when the agency’s top officials boxed Amtrak executives out of a closed door meeting on the new design of the Midtown train hub, according to an internal letter from an Amtrak leader.

The July 17 letter was sent to Amtrak, MTA and NJ Transit leaders by Jennie Kwon, the national railroad’s vice president for capital delivery. The memo details a meeting MTA officials held with a firm hired to consult on the station’s redesign.

The letter — which was obtained by Gothamist through a source — states the July 6 “kickoff” meeting was not attended by or approved by Amtrak, which owns Penn Station.


more:
https://gothamist.com/news/penn-stat...mta-and-amtrak

[HyperPower]

https://www.costar.com/article/42948...y-council-says

Five years to move east via Vornado or stay put and delay a new Penn Station.

[Pinoy2.0]

Originally Posted by HyperPower

https://www.costar.com/article/42948...y-council-says

Five years to move east via Vornado or stay put and delay a new Penn Station.

wouldn't that be a win win for everyone? New station and MSG can build a stadium that's not archaic...? Sphere 2.0 on top of a new MSG would be great haha

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Pinoy2.0

wouldn't that be a win win for everyone? New station and MSG can build a stadium that's not archaic...? Sphere 2.0 on top of a new MSG would be great haha

A new arena, yes. On site. MSG isn't moving anywhere, and it's time everyone figured out they're stuck with MSG in it's current location. The constant chatter of "moving" MSG is a waste of everyone's time, and gets nothing done. It's the reason that the parties that are actually involved in this whole scenario (rebuilding Penn) aren't asking for it to be moved.



https://www.chelseanewsny.com/news/1...ever-FN2690979

11th Hr. Appeal: Local Bars, Other Small Business Owners, Urge City Council to Renew MSG’s Special Permit Forever
Nearly two dozen small businesses, including a dozen pubs, one real estate tower, two parking garages and the Manhattan Chamber of Commerce, sent a last minute appeal to the City Council asking its committee to recommend renewing in perpetuity the special permit that Madison Square Garden needs to operate the arena above Penn Station. But the Council’s landuse and franschise sub committee voted on Monday, Aug. 28 to only grant a five extension. It still must go to the full City Council for a vote next month before the permit lenght is finalized.


MICHAEL ORESKES
28 AUG 2023

A raft of restaurants, bars and other businesses around Madison Square Garden–saying the Garden’s crowds provided much of their business–appealed to the City Council to give the arena a new permit to operate permanently.

The eleventh hour appeal came as the Council worked toward an August 28th deadline to decide on whether, or for how long, to grant The Garden a new permit to operate and on what conditions, including what MSG will be required to do to facilitate the reconstruction of Penn Station beneath it.

“Madison Square Garden is the economic lifeblood of our community, not only employing thousands but attracting many thousands more to local businesses all year round,” the businesses wrote in a letter to the speaker of the Council, Adrienne Adams and three pivotal members, Erik Bottcher, who represents the neighborhood, Rafael Salamanca Jr., who chairs the land use committee and Kevin Riley, chair of the subcommittee on zoning and franchises.

“With its ability to operate at full capacity for the long term now at stake, we urge you to approve its request to renew its special operating permit in perpetuity”

The letter was signed by twenty local eating and drinking establishments, two parking garages and the Manhattan Chamber of Commerce.

“Our establishments are located within walking distance of The Garden, and we rely on the arena for a great deal of our evening and weekend business.”

Richard Constable, The Executive Vice President of MSG Enertainment, which owns the Garden said: “Our local businesses understand how important Madison Square Garden is to their neighborhood and we appreciate their ongoing support.”

https://www.thecity.nyc/2023/8/28/23...t-penn-station

Five-Year Madison Square Garden Permit Inflates Pressure to Play Ball
A City Council committee shrinks the timeline for the Midtown arena’s operation as Penn Station plans hang in the balance.


BY GABRIEL POBLETE
AUG 28, 2023

The local Council member stressed his desire for the owners of the famed arena to play ball with transit agencies in rehabilitating Penn Station, which is located underneath MSG.

During a Zoning and Franchises subcommittee meeting, Councilmember Erik Bottcher (D-Manhattan), whose district includes the complex, said that an antiquated loading setup for concerts and other events clashed with the intensifying transit activity underneath the Garden.

“Because of this use conflict, at this time the Council cannot determine the long-term viability of an arena at this location,” Bottcher said. “Therefore five years is an appropriate term for this special permit.”

Bottcher said the Council would require the development of a transportation management plan. The permit now goes to the full Council, where it is expected to be approved. Mayor Eric Adams has the power to review the permit and veto it if he chooses.

MSG Entertainment issued a statement shortly after the vote, calling the Land Use Committee’s decision disappointing.

“A short-term special permit is not in anyone’s best interest and undermines the ability to immediately revamp Penn Station and the surrounding area,” the statement reads. “The committees have done a grave disservice to New Yorkers today, in a shortsighted move that will further contribute to the erosion of the City – that’s true now and will be true five years from now.”

For years now, neighborhood advocates and elected officials have called for MSG to leave its home atop Penn Station, arguing the arena stood in the way of train station improvements. When the City Council last renewed the arena’s special permit a decade ago, Council members said Dolan should look to move the world-famous arena elsewhere.

But MSG executives have made clear they are not budging. Since it owns the property, getting MSG to move elsewhere or denying them the permit could be extraordinarily costly, with a state-estimated price tag of $8.6 billion.

In a June letter to the City Planning Commission, MSG Entertainment executive vice president Richard Constable said that while the group is willing to work with the railroads, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll give up their property.

“As we have discussed with Department of City Planning staff, MSG’s commitment to partner with the Rail Agencies does not, in any way, mean that MSG must offer easements on our private property, or offer to transfer ownership of our private property, at less than fair market value,” Constable said in the letter.