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  #81  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 1:37 PM
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For Americans of a certain age, the wildly popular '80s TV show Dallas forever cemented the city as the single defining image for the state of Texas.

That association is likely weaker for millennials and younger.
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  #82  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 1:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
And tbh. Metro Houston is super disappointing.
The Dallas and Houston MSAs were both equally purple last november, each posting a fairly paltry +1.1 for Biden over Trump.

They are both majorly out of step with the vast majority of the other big MSAs around the nation, which lean very decidedly blue.
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  #83  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 1:47 PM
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I think people generally associate Texas' terrain with the rolling plains of the northern-central chunk of the state... in which Dallas is situated smack in the middle of... and why Dallas is seen as exemplifying "real Texas" to outsiders.

Add the NFL's Cowboys and TV's "DALLAS"... and the outside impressions are only reinforced and disseminated.
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  #84  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
The Dallas and Houston MSAs were both equally purple last november, each posting a fairly paltry +1.1 for Biden over Trump.

They are both majorly out of step with the vast majority of the other big MSAs around the nation, which lean very decidedly blue.
The suburbs of both those cities are very red. Although each metro now has a majority or near majority non-Caucasian population, non-Caucasians do not vote blue in huge majorities like other metros (or sometimes don't vote at all).
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  #85  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 2:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
The Dallas and Houston MSAs were both equally purple last november, each posting a fairly paltry +1.1 for Biden over Trump.

They are both majorly out of step with the vast majority of the other big MSAs around the nation, which lean very decidedly blue.
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Originally Posted by DCReid View Post
The suburbs of both those cities are very red. Although each metro now has a majority or near majority non-Caucasian population, non-Caucasians do not vote blue in huge majorities like other metros (or sometimes don't vote at all).
2020 saw the massive gains the Democrats have been making in Texas suburbs halted and reversed. 'Defund the police" was a terrible slogan that the GOP shrewdly amplified. Also Texas was in the midst of the worst oil bust since the 80s and the GOP campaigned Biden was going to end the O&G industry.

Looking at 2000-2020 shows a markedly different picture than focusing on 2020. Unfortunately Texas doesn't have a Stacey Abrams or the Hispanic version that is getting lower income minorities to the polls. The Texas Democratic party is a bunch of lovable losers that don't really understand Texas.

Democrats didn’t get a blue wave, but some of the fastest-growing suburbs in Texas are still moving to the left

Good article with a graphic that doesn't copy over well. Looking at the 6 fastest growing Texas counties (suburbs) are seeing massive gains for the Democrats. Fort Bend, a major Houston, middle class, immigrant suburb is now Democratic.
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  #86  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
Lol ya'll make fun of Dallas and it might save America.

If Texas were to actually turn blue in the next couple of decades/election cycles, it will be because of Dallas, Tarrant, Collin, and Denton Counties. (Along with Austin and its immediate suburbs).
America will be saved if everyone votes the way I do!!!

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  #87  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasPlaya View Post
2020 saw the massive gains the Democrats have been making in Texas suburbs halted and reversed.

but all 4 of texas's big metros got bluer in 2020 vs. 2016.


movement between 2016 hillary margin vs. 2020 biden margin:

dallas: +7.8
austin: +6.4
san antonio: +4.6
houston: +2.2


so if the burbs got redder in 2020, then i guess all of that blue movement above was in the central cities themselves?


looking at those, it does seem that the O&G card might have suppressed some potential blue movement in houston, which is particularly sensitive to that issue (but really, so is all of texas to a certain degree).
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  #88  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown View Post
Lol ya'll make fun of Dallas and it might save America.

If Texas were to actually turn blue in the next couple of decades/election cycles, it will be because of Dallas, Tarrant, Collin, and Denton Counties. (Along with Austin and its immediate suburbs).
No.... it will be because of the urban areas. Harris County (Houston) is the largest democratic county and largest population wise, which is why the GOP specifically targeted it with the voting laws.
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  #89  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 3:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
but all 4 of texas's big metros got bluer in 2020 vs. 2016.


movement between 2016 hillary margin vs. 2020 biden margin:

dallas: +7.8
austin: +6.4
san antonio: +4.6
houston: +2.2


so if the burbs got redder in 2020, then i guess all of that blue movement above was in the central cities themselves?


looking at those, it does seem that the O&G card might have suppressed some potential blue movement in houston, which is particularly sensitive to that issue (but really, so is all of texas to a certain degree).
I was being more general with my "massive gains" were "halted and reversed". Like I said, looking at 2000-2020 shows the larger trend and why 2020 was more of an outlier. There is a reason why Texas GOP is trying to so hard to change the rules to blunt the Democratic trend. The border region also went from reliably democrat to getting some GOP breakthrough:

"This part of the state — 28 counties on or near the border and in South Texas — was the big surprise.

It remains an area of strength for Democrats, but Biden took a hit there. Clinton won these counties by 33 percentage points in 2016 when taken as a whole. Biden won them by only around 17 percentage points."

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/11...suburban-city/

I think 2020 was more about the weak Democratic messaging. It's baffling how Democrats keep tripping over their own d*cks in Texas, we really need some better leadership here.
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  #90  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 4:22 PM
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Montgomery county (Woodlands and Conroe), just north of Harris is one of the fastest growing but deep red. That skews metro Houston. There are only two blue counties in the region. The rest have a LONG way to go before they flip. If ever.
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  #91  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Montgomery county (Woodlands and Conroe), just north of Harris is one of the fastest growing but deep red. That skews metro Houston. There are only two blue counties in the region. The rest have a LONG way to go before they flip. If ever.
I agree to an extent. Harris County and Fort Bend County make up ~5.5 million out of ~7.1 million of the Houston metro population.

North Houston is your neck of the woods but it just seems a little bit behind the population boom relative to the NW/W/SW areas. The western portion of Houston absolutely boomed starting 2000s and Fort Bend county wasn't the middle class immigrant hub it is today. Montgomery county still has many small, rural, culturally east texas towns that haven't turned into suburbia. East Texas is more like Appalachia/Rust Belt. I doubt it will become like Fort Bend, but I'd bet it's purple by 2030.
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  #92  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 4:50 PM
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  #93  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 4:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasPlaya View Post
I agree to an extent. Harris County and Fort Bend County make up ~5.5 million out of ~7.1 million of the Houston metro population.

North Houston is your neck of the woods but it just seems a little bit behind the population boom relative to the NW/W/SW areas. The western portion of Houston absolutely boomed starting 2000s and Fort Bend county wasn't the middle class immigrant hub it is today. Montgomery county still has many small, rural, culturally east texas towns that haven't turned into suburbia. East Texas is more like Appalachia/Rust Belt. I doubt it will become like Fort Bend, but I'd bet it's purple by 2030.
Yeah, NE Houston and northward has been slow to growth compared to everyone else. Kingwood is maxed out. There is some development; New Caney and Porter in Montgomery county. But it's pretty much Deliverance beyond these areas. It's a much faster commute into downtown and Houston proper from 59 than 45 too.
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  #94  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 5:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasPlaya View Post
2020 saw the massive gains the Democrats have been making in Texas suburbs halted and reversed.
This is absolute wrong.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ction-map.html

Here is a precinct-by-precinct map of election results nationwide. The largest movements to the left in all four of the largest metropolitan areas were in suburban areas.

Austin: Round Rock, Kyle, Buda, San Marcos, Dripping Springs, Georgetown, and Cedar Park as well as the suburban neighborhoods within the city limits all went significant leftward. Most of the already Democratic areas stayed Democratic but didn't have much room for growth in margin, but had growth in turnout. Key County: Williamson, which moved from 50.2-41.3 Trump to 49.6-48.2 Biden.

San Antonio: The southside and westside went to the right, but these are inner city Tejano neighborhoods. Afluent enclaves like Olmos Park and Terrell Hills had large shifts to the left as did pretty much the rest of the entire metropolitan area except for the Tejano parts of Seguin. Key County: Bexar. Everyone knows Bexar is almost entirely suburban itself, and it shifted to 58% Biden from 54% Clinton even with the Tejano inner city neighborhood shifts to the right.

Houston: The Hispanic and African American sections of the city and inner suburbs saw shifts to the right, but the outer suburbs, enclaves, and whiter areas of the city all saw shifts to the left. Conroe, Katy, Spring, Cypress, Tomball, The Woodlands all saw Democratic gains in margin vis-a-vis 2016. The only real suburbs where Republicans had margin gains in more than a few select precincts are Galveston, Liberty, La Marque, and Sugarland. All of these have seen massive gains in Mexican-American and Central American immigrants which saw shifts to the right nationwide. Key County: Fort Bend, discussed above by others.

Dallas: The black neighborhoods in the city mostly stayed the same 2016 to 2020, whereas the neighborhoods that are shifting from black to Mexican-American saw movement to the right. However, that isn't always true: Irving is heavily Mexican-American and shifted to the left. But look north of the city at Denton, Frisco, McKinney, Garland, Mesquite, Lewisville. All of these are mostly white, mostly wealthy communities, but each has significant minority populations either city-wide or in pockets, yet ALL of the movement precinct-by-precinct was massive shifts to the left. Key Counties: Denton and Collin, which moved from 57% and 56% Trump, respectively, to 53% and 51%. Big shifts.

Fort Worth: Arlington and Fort Worth inner city areas both moved to the right, but the rest of the suburban areas in Tarrant County and the southwest suburban areas shifted to the left. Key County: Tarrant. Biden won Tarrant. What? Clinton got 43%.

Bonus RGV: Everything moved to the right. The Tejano towns, the Mexican-American towns, the mixed towns, the white enclaves, the couple of Filipino precincts. All of it. The couple of blue spots are all colleges and universities, which is no surprise, but even many of those shifted to the right.

Correct analysis:

The suburbs and select cities continued their climb to the left and with boosted turnout, while at the same time select cities and inner city neighborhoods began to slide to the right. The rural areas were largely the same as before.
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Houston: 2314k (+0%) + MSA suburbs: 5196k (+7%) + CSA exurbs: 196k (+3%)
Dallas: 1303k (-0%) + MSA div. suburbs: 4160k (9%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 457k (+6%)
Ft. Worth: 978k (+6%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1659k (+4%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 98k (+8%)
San Antonio: 1495k (+4%) + MSA suburbs: 1209k (+8%) + CSA exurbs: 82k (+3%)
Austin: 980k (+2%) + MSA suburbs: 1493k (+13%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Sep 21, 2021 at 5:15 PM.
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  #95  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 5:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Yeah, NE Houston and northward has been slow to growth compared to everyone else. Kingwood is maxed out. There is some development; New Caney and Porter in Montgomery county. But it's pretty much Deliverance beyond these areas. It's a much faster commute into downtown and Houston proper from 59 than 45 too.
And it's crazy, weird urban poverty/extreme Deep South poverty in between downtown and the master planned communities along BW8/ Kingwood/Humble. It's as if a chunk of Mississippi or Juarez Mexico was placed just north of downtown.

I do enjoy the few times I have to use 59N, a really under the radar major freeway expansion.
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  #96  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 5:10 PM
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
This is absolute wrong.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ction-map.html

Here is a precinct-by-precinct map of election results nationwide. The largest movements to the left in all four of the largest metropolitan areas were in suburban areas.

Austin: Round Rock, Kyle, Buda, San Marcos, Dripping Springs, Georgetown, and Cedar Park as well as the suburban neighborhoods within the city limits all went significant leftward. Most of the already Democratic areas stayed Democratic but didn't have much room for growth in margin, but had growth in turnout.

San Antonio: The southside and westside went to the right, but these are inner city Tejano neighborhoods. Afluent enclaves like Olmos Park and Terrell Hills had large shifts to the left as did pretty much the rest of the entire metropolitan area except for the Tejano parts of Seguin.

Houston: The Hispanic and African American sections of the city and inner suburbs saw shifts to the right, but the outer suburbs, enclaves, and whiter areas of the city all saw shifts to the left. Conroe, Katy, Spring, Cypress, Tomball, The Woodlands all saw Democratic gains in margin vis-a-vis 2016. The only real suburbs where Republicans had margin gains in more than a few select precincts are Galveston, Liberty, La Marque, and Sugarland. All of these have seen massive gains in Mexican-American and Central American immigrants which saw shifts to the right nationwide.

Dallas: The black neighborhoods in the city mostly stayed the same 2016 to 2020, whereas the neighborhoods that are shifting from black to Mexican-American saw movement to the right. However, that isn't always true: Irving is heavily Mexican-American and shifted to the left. But look north of the city at Denton, Frisco, McKinney, Garland, Mesquite, Lewisville. All of these are mostly white, mostly wealthy communities, but each has significant minority populations either city-wide or in pockets, yet ALL of the movement precinct-by-precinct was massive shifts to the left.

Fort Worth: Arlington and Fort Worth inner city areas both moved to the right, but the rest of the suburban areas in Tarrant County and the southwest suburban areas shifted to the left.

Bonus RGV: Everything moved to the right. The Tejano towns, the Mexican-American towns, the mixed towns, the white enclaves, the couple of Filipino precincts. All of it. The couple of blue spots are all colleges and universities, which is no surprise, but even many of those shifted to the right.
I wouldn't say "absolutely" but I will change my general statement to "the Democrats disappointed in Texas compared to their previous gains." Clearly they halted and reversed gains in some areas, but I can admit I was being a bit too pessimistic.

Living in Texas and seeing the campaign ads, it was pretty clear 2020 wasn't going to be another 2016.
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  #97  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 9:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasPlaya View Post
I wouldn't say "absolutely" but I will change my general statement to "the Democrats disappointed in Texas compared to their previous gains." Clearly they halted and reversed gains in some areas, but I can admit I was being a bit too pessimistic.

Living in Texas and seeing the campaign ads, it was pretty clear 2020 wasn't going to be another 2016.
The Democrats did very well throughout the board in suburbs in Texas. Where they lost by 6% instead of winning was in collapsing in the Hispanic-majority Rio Grande Valley and in Hispanic-heavy precincts in the Houston Metro Area.

Which is why Dallas Metro saw a much bigger swing blue than Houston Metro: it had more White college-educated upper middle-class suburbs like Collin and Denton Counties that zoomed left relative to Houston's suburbs, which are more of the immigrant entrepot variety (Fort Bend County) or the land of the megachurch brainwashed (Montgomery County) - both of which were better for Trump.

Collin County:
Trump 2016: +16% winning margin
Trump 2020: +4%
TREND: +12% left

Fort Bend County:
Trump 2016: -6% (losing margin)
Trump 2020: -11%
TREND: +5% left

Both trended left, but Collin zoomed while Fort Bend merely performed as expected.

The GOP doesn't even trust the Dallas suburbs anymore, which is why their new anti-demogratic extreme gerrymander (that would make third-world dictators blush) instead now relies on cracking urban areas and stitching those small urban portions to very conservative rural counties.
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  #98  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 9:15 PM
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Montgomery county (Woodlands and Conroe), just north of Harris is one of the fastest growing but deep red. That skews metro Houston. There are only two blue counties in the region. The rest have a LONG way to go before they flip. If ever.

I don't know, Fort Bend was practically John Bircher in previous times. I went to a high school named after John Foster Dulles when I was being held captive in early 70s Sugar Land. Can't get much more right wing in this country than that. Of course, now it's Sugar Land's large Asian community that swung it left... but, then again, I'm old enough to remember when Asian immigrants were reliable Republican voters. Montgomery County has the Woodlands, but it also has a bunch of deep woods-dwelling rednecks in common-law marriages with their goats...er...I mean cousins.
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  #99  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 9:41 PM
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I don't know, Fort Bend was practically John Bircher in previous times. I went to a high school named after John Foster Dulles when I was being held captive in early 70s Sugar Land. Can't get much more right wing in this country than that. Of course, now it's Sugar Land's large Asian community that swung it left... but, then again, I'm old enough to remember when Asian immigrants were reliable Republican voters. Montgomery County has the Woodlands, but it also has a bunch of deep woods-dwelling rednecks in common-law marriages with their goats...er...I mean cousins.
Yeah, Montgomery County is trending blue, but from much redder turf. Conroe/The Woodlands had 8-9% trends, which is about on par with what Collin/Denton Counties had. I could even see Democrats winning The Woodlands by end of the decade. The trends there are stark.

It's the 77% rural/exurban areas that are a killer. They are trending D also (by 7%), but when you have rural Whites voting 80-90% GOP, like in parts of the Deep South, you're not flipping that easily.

Here's what I see for Montgomery County:

Conroe (89,956) *7% D Trend*
2020: 30% D, 69% R (+39 R)
2016: 25% D, 71% R (+46 R)
2012/2016: +54.28 R

The Woodlands, Montgomery Portion (98,066) *11% D Trend*
2020: 38% D, 61% R (+23 R)
2016: 30% D, 64% R (+34 R)
2012/2016: +48.88 R

Other CDPs in Montgomery (44,516) *6% D Trend*
2020: 25% D, 73% R (+48 R)
2016: 21% D, 75% R (+54)
2012/2016: +62.00 R

Rural/Exurban Montgomery County (not part of a Census CDP) (387,905) *7% D Trend*
2020: 24% D, 75% R (+51 R)
2016: 19% D, 77% R (+58 R)
2012/2016: +66.04 R

Montgomery is just a very unique suburban county within Texas and more culturally connected to those 70-80% GOP suburban counties that you see in much of the Deep South (Shelby County, AL, Saint Tammany Parish, LA, Rankin County, MS, etc.) than the rest of Texas's suburban geopolitical landscape.
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  #100  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2021, 10:23 PM
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Yeah, NE Houston and northward has been slow to growth compared to everyone else. Kingwood is maxed out. There is some development; New Caney and Porter in Montgomery county. But it's pretty much Deliverance beyond these areas. It's a much faster commute into downtown and Houston proper from 59 than 45 too.
What about Cleveland or is that too far out and more of an exurb?
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