NEW YORK | 80 South Street | 1,436 FT | 113 FLOORS

[Prezrezreturns]

To those who might protest the location of what I suppose we can now call this dead proposal…

I would respectfully bring to your collective memories the original WTC complex *before* the addition of Battery Park City.

Talk about juxtaposition………

[Busy Bee]

^ I've thought about that, it still doesn't change my opinion.

[jbermingham123]

I think Lower Manhattan should implement a policy similar to that of London, where certain sightlines to specific landmarks are legally protected.

I think it would be cool if you could permanently preserve views of the following:
-40 Wall Street
-70 Pine
-20 Exchange
-Woolworth
-1WTC
-2WTC

From the following:
-Brooklyn Bridge Park
-Some spot west of the Hudson, maybe Liberty Park or Ellis Island
-ESB Deck

And then no other restrictions

[Busy Bee]

^ I think that's reasonable.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

I think Lower Manhattan should implement a policy similar to that of London, where certain sightlines to specific landmarks are legally protected.

I think it would be cool if you could permanently preserve views of the following:
-40 Wall Street
-70 Pine
-20 Exchange
-Woolworth
-1WTC
-2WTC

From the following:
-Brooklyn Bridge Park
-Some spot west of the Hudson, maybe Liberty Park or Ellis Island
-ESB Deck

And then no other restrictions

I hope you are joking. I think that would be a nightmare and would easily spread to midtown. The approval process would be even more contentious, bogged down and drawn out. Development would be crushed. The result would be swat 30-50 story boxes everywhere!

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by jbermingham123

I think Lower Manhattan should implement a policy similar to that of London, where certain sightlines to specific landmarks are legally protected.

I think it would be cool if you could permanently preserve views of the following:
-40 Wall Street
-70 Pine
-20 Exchange
-Woolworth
-1WTC
-2WTC

From the following:
-Brooklyn Bridge Park
-Some spot west of the Hudson, maybe Liberty Park or Ellis Island
-ESB Deck

And then no other restrictions

1) The Empire State Building, the most famous building in not only the city but the entire country, doesn't have protected viewing lines. I highly doubt that any other part will get it either.
2) Building in NYC is already extremely long and maze-like, and you propose we bog it down even more? I'm gonna have to disagree.

[jackster99]

I hope that with 111 W57th essentially finished, and 9 Dekalb not too far behind, Stern and JDS are looking for their next signature project. This one would be a perfect contender.

He has the best tower on Billionaire’s row (arguably in all of Midtown) and the best tower in Brooklyn, so it seems fitting he would want the best tower in Lower Manhattan to finish the trifecta.

[MAC123]

Originally Posted by jackster99

I hope that with 111 W57th essentially finished, and 9 Dekalb not too far behind, Stern and JDS are looking for their next signature project. This one would be a perfect contender.

He has the best tower on Billionaire’s row (arguably in all of Midtown) and the best tower in Brooklyn, so it seems fitting he would want the best tower in Lower Manhattan to finish the trifecta.

It'll be interesting to see what he does next. 111 W57th is a very good looking building and definitely one of the best, if not the best, though once 175 is built I'd have to give the best title to it.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by DCReid

Seems like downtown Manhattan is not as desirable right now for residential construction. Two of the projects are stalled and 45 Broad is delayed. I don't think this one will see the light of day.

Well, we’re barely just coming off of a pandemic, where everything came to a standstill worldwide. Anyone who thinks downtown Manhattan isn’t desirable for residential just hasn’t been paying attention.

Originally Posted by manchester united

I hope that the height and ABOVE ALL the 113 real floors will be confirmed.

The height of the tower was always likely more than what we have here, which is basically the height of the approved distribution of floor area. We’ve never seen the Oceanwide proposal other than some vague renderings (it could have been either tower). They never got as far as announcing it, before heading into major triuble.

Originally Posted by jackster99

I hope that with 111 W57th essentially finished, and 9 Dekalb not too far behind, Stern and JDS are looking for their next signature project. This one would be a perfect contender.

He has the best tower on Billionaire’s row (arguably in all of Midtown) and the best tower in Brooklyn, so it seems fitting he would want the best tower in Lower Manhattan to finish the trifecta.

Either would be fine, but they’re not the only developers in town who would jump on the oppurtunity to build an already approved 1 msf + tower. Developers in the city spend years and sometimes a decade or more assembling the land and air rights necessary to build. That’s because, unlike other cities, New York doesn’t have a lot of empty or open lots to build on. And air rights are hard (and expensive) to come by. In fact, Oceanwide wouldn’t even purchase this property until all of that was put into place. So that’s why I think it’s frankly foolish to dismiss this site.

[NYguy]

With the well documented financial crisis Oceanwide is in, far beyond just this site, their plans to develop this tower went off the rails.

As recently as just a couple of years ago, things still looked like they were moving...







But that quickly came to a halt, and now it will be up to another developer to get this tower built.

This very narrow site, with it's 1 msf + of development rights, was always going to produce a slender tower. It would be a very slender tower with half the development rights.







Complicating things further, is the fact that the site borders the historical district, which recently battered 250 Water Street into submission.












The approved stacking of the air rights would give a tower of 1,400 ft plus, but the exact height would be something different given various design elements that can make a tower taller.







We did see renderings of how that would work in an actual designed tower...
















With the way everything turned out, it's probably best that things didn't get underway. The pandemic really froze everything.

But there were some towers that did get completed. Just a 5 min walk away is 130 William St with units on the current market...




















Just a mile up the river, on the Lower East Side, Extell's Manhattan Square got completed....



















There are other condo developments, including a couple of stalled towers that topped out, but are in limbo due to other problems.

The extremely close, but stalled 1 Seaport still has a number of units in contract...

Description
Introducing Seaport Residences. Rising 670 feet, the eighty homes are encased in floor-to-ceiling glass with over 10-foot elevated ceilings and singular terrace experiences.

The waterfront lifestyle includes a 24-hour concierge, attended private porte cochere, and two levels of amenities that overlook the river.

The Water Floor, a full floor experience on floor thirty, offers 360-degree views of the harbor, bridges and landmarks that define Manhattan.

An immersive retreat with a glass edged horizon pool, a misted waterfall passageway, a sun terrace, and a relaxation lounge. This is well-designed drama. T

he first soaring residential tower at the Seaport is surrounded by the best of the New Downtown including Brookfield Place, One World Trade Center and the Brooklyn Bridge.

One, Two, Three Bedroom & Penthouse Condominiums designed by S. Russell Groves. Tours are conducted by appointment only.

https://streeteasy.com/building/seaport-residences

And 125 Greenwich remains nearly completed, but stalled.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by NYguy

https://therealdeal.com/2021/10/21/c...e-at-big-loss/

Chinese developer willing to sell Manhattan supertall site at big loss

BY RICH BOCKMANN
OCT 21, 2021


…..The company has labored the past five years to develop the property at 80 South Street. It had planned to build the tallest building in Lower Manhattan by roof height at roughly 1,500 feet above the street.

That’s still a good height, even with multiple taller proposals in Midtown.

[NYguy]

As long as we’re looking at older designs….



https://www.behance.net/gallery/7623...0-South-Street

The gateway site at the seaport district in Lower Manhattan presents spectacular design opportunities. The proposed building is consisted of a hotel and residential tower that together serve as a great contributor to the urban landscape and a desirable living environment for its residents. A signature project in New York City, this proposal also maximizes structural and planning efficiency given the high cost of land and construction in NYC. All together the project aims to create a marketable lifestyle unique to the vision of the team and this beautifully historic site.

Named “Spire“ the proposed tower design draws inspirations from many of the classical spire skyscrapers of the 20th Century. The massing results in floor plates that are bigger at the top of the building than they are at the middle and bottom. The views will be unparalleled to all directions. The facades accentuate the positioning of the tower by having strong biases in the East and West directions.

[Raysiri]

The 5th image looks super-lit bro.

[Prezrezreturns]

All things considered here, my reservations concerning a supertall alongside the river seem to have been vindicated.

That said, a solid 6-to 800’er using the design on the yellow paper wold have looked snazzy to me.

[mrnyc]

well yeah the handsome 130 williams example, the previous plans and the site itself help us keep hope alive for a tall, but i still say and especially now given the bargain purchase they will get itchy to build something already. i mean lets don't ignore the nearby upcoming 250 water street development example either, probably more like that, so my bet is it will end up a pair of expensive, but moderate sized apt towers.

anyway its all speculation -- we will see.

[BK1985]

Oh wow. That would have been really sexy.

[SkyHigher]

doesn't matter how sexy it is and if sony did built it. still out of place.

[BK1985]

Originally Posted by SkyHigher

doesn't matter how sexy it is and if sony did built it. still out of place.

You’re entitled to your opinion, the Empire State Building was once “out of place”. I personally like it.

[SkyHigher]

Originally Posted by BK1985

You’re entitled to your opinion, the Empire State Building was once “out of place”. I personally like it.

as was stonehenge bro

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Prezrezreturns

All things considered here, my reservations concerning a supertall alongside the river seem to have been vindicated.

Don't know how.

Originally Posted by mrnyc

i mean lets don't ignore the nearby upcoming 250 water street development example either, probably more like that, so my bet is it will end up a pair of expensive, but moderate sized apt towers.

Again, this is an extremely narrow lot. While 250 Water Street is both A.) in the historic district, B.) needed approval to get built as a result, and B.) is a large parking lot that can accommodate a tower or two. This site is neither of those.

There is a reason why every variation of this tower is basically a narrow, supertall tower. Those development rights are shoehorned on this site. It's what is buildable, and no one is going to buy that lot without the expressed intent to build what is possible. No one throws away air rights in New York, and why would you? They're extremely valuable, and hard to come by.

Originally Posted by BK1985

You’re entitled to your opinion, the Empire State Building was once “out of place”. I personally like it.

Yeah, there's no such thing as out of place on the Manhattan skyline when it comes to height. The WTC is certainly no slouch in the height department. In fact, a 1,500 ft tower on this site would balance the lower Manhattan skyline nicely. As is, it's heavily weighted to one side, with the WTC.