Calgary's $8 BILLION Transit Plan - The RouteAhead

[93JC]

Originally Posted by fusili

But it is also a bus only road that can be converted easily to rail.

Supposedly. I'm very skeptical about how well this can actually be executed.

Originally Posted by polishavenger

I think the 800 lb gorrilla in the room that nobody is addressing is that regardless of the fact that you add a 4th car to the train and run them every 5 minutes, without an express system, you have major inefficiency in the system. Since the vast majority of people along the entire systems are heading to the core, the further this city sprawls, the faster and faster the trains fill up rendering them useless to commuters closer to the core.

Yup. Seems ridiculous to me that extensions to the northeast, northwest, southeast and south are, according to the plan, to be built well before any substantial transit improvements in the inner city. It's just going to get worse for inner city transit users.



It's ludricrous to me that "the plan" is to build LRT stations in Seton, at 210 Ave S, at 'Northpointe' (wherever the hell that is) and to other far-flung locales that might as well be Bumfuck, Nowhere as far as I'm concerned, while someone living in Altadore has to dick around on a 45 min. long ride on the #7 or #13 bus if they want to take transit downtown.

[nick.flood]

delete

[Bokimon]

Overall looks good and suits the majority of the Calgarians who will rely on this service in the coming decades especially as we continue to sprawl out.
I have also pitched in my ideas to route ahead and have had several discussions with some of their transportation engineers on some key ideas.
Alot of the examples I alluded to in my argument was Portland, Oregon as many tout that as the role model of an excellent and balanced public transport system.

Things on my mind:
During the next decades, there probably should be some partnership or agreement with Okotoks, Cochrane, Chestemere and Airdrie for having services to those communities as they too will grow and become cities. I bet many living there will work in calgary and our highways will be busier, this should be looked into and see what solutions can be found.

There should also be an innercity diagram showing the beltline/downtown/surrounding areas to see how increased density will affect transit infrastructure. As our communities get crowded and our roads being able to take only so much pressure, I would really like to see what improvements are available to address the hundreds of thousands of new residents in this key area. This would be the one where tram lines and express buses or even that Gondola line can be of use for ideal solutions. Lets see what the city can come up on this front. (although I realize the purpose in this presentation is more to show how to serve the entire city and not just inner city)

[Aegis]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Who said anything about a bridge?

Thanks for pointing this out. I mistakenly viewed what I think might be Crowchild Trail on that map as being a bridge over Edworthy, when I read about the "Shaganappi Transitway". Crisis averted.

[5seconds]

Originally Posted by Aegis

Thanks for pointing this out. I mistakenly viewed what I think might be Crowchild Trail on that map as being a bridge over Edworthy, when I read about the "Shaganappi Transitway". Crisis averted.

I think that might be the talked about gondola service(?) It's too far east to be over Edworthy, and looks like it's not Crowchild.

I hope transit to the SW (Woodbine LRT) gets started soon. That area could use better transit and a decent option to not drive up 14th street.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by polishavenger

Since the vast majority of people along the entire systems are heading to the core, the further this city sprawls, the faster and faster the trains fill up rendering them useless to commuters closer to the core.

I think improved cross-town connections will help a lot, as a number of people who come through downtown are using DT just for a transfer point. I know many in the NE that use it to get to the university via LRT. I know people who live in NC and work in Marlborough - they take the 301 to DT to take the train out to the NE. There are other options for both of these, but they are not as efficient or as appetizing. That is really the elephant in the room - the 600,000 or 750,000 total Calgary workers who do not work DT.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by 93JC

It's ludricrous to me that "the plan" is to build LRT stations [] at 'Northpointe' (wherever the hell that is) and to other far-flung locales that might as well be Bumfuck, Nowhere as far as I'm concerned

You clearly don't know enough to be commenting.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Aegis

Thanks for pointing this out. I mistakenly viewed what I think might be Crowchild Trail on that map as being a bridge over Edworthy, when I read about the "Shaganappi Transitway". Crisis averted.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a bridge there. Clearly there is not unanimity in the voices.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I think improved cross-town connections will help a lot, as a number of people who come through downtown are using DT just for a transfer point. I know many in the NE that use it to get to the university via LRT. I know people who live in NC and work in Marlborough - they take the 301 to DT to take the train out to the NE. There are other options for both of these, but they are not as efficient or as appetizing. That is really the elephant in the room - the 600,000 or 750,000 total Calgary workers who do not work DT.

Agreed 100%. The crosstown routes are essential. The North, East and West Crosstowns will really help serve hospitals, post-secondary institutions, office parks and industrial areas currently underserved by transit. Having riders transfer to crosstown routes also frees up capacity for riders at stations closer to the core, such as Sunnyside or Chinook.

[Aegis]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Personally, I wouldn't mind a bridge there. Clearly there is not unanimity in the voices.

I never said 100% of people disliked the idea. In any event, it's not being proposed at this time, so no need to debate it.

[Yahoo]

Originally Posted by 93JC

Discouraging to see that the subway, out of all the projects in this plan, is the one that is planned to be built furthest in the future.

My guess it that it's just too expensive and city council has no willpower to build projects unless they see political gain in them. I really think Edmonton had the right idea in building a subway downtown right from the start. If anything can be said about Calgary projects it's "build it now, then fix it later". It's so much cheaper to just do it right in the first place. One can only hope that when they build it they'll eliminate all ground level LRT tracks downtown - but I unfortunately doubt they'll do it the way it should be done.

Calgary needs a subway downtown. It's inefficient and dangerous to have trains, people, bikes, buses, and cars all sharing the same area.

Our weather should be factored into design decisions for stations (even underground - but never is). Look at most stations. Even the ones with heated areas are designed so you can't even stand in them while waiting for a train. You have to stand outside. And the brochures and plans never show the frozen commuters during a -30 blizzard. The plans always show nice sunny summer days.

[ByeByeBaby]

I rather liked the methodology used for Portland's fairly recent High Capacity Transit plan (link here; there's a brightly coloured map to look at, and the detailed technical report is near the bottom of the right column). They identified a large universe of corridors, then whittled it down to a manageable list of 13 corridors (as well as looking separately at a downtown tunnel and bypass). The corridors were then evaluated and ranked against each other, with tiers of priority identified.

Here, we have more of a holistic dump of a bunch of lines, take it or leave it. The technologies for the corridors are identified already, and some are clearly intended to be second-tier forever, I suppose. BRT pretty much just means adding a bus route, as far as CT is concerned. Pardon me if I don't pee myself with excitement over that.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Aegis

I never said 100% of people disliked the idea. In any event, it's not being proposed at this time, so no need to debate it.

Yes it is being proposed at this time. I just proposed it.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Yahoo

And the brochures and plans never show the frozen commuters during a -30 blizzard.

Agreed. They only show ever smiling pedestrians walking to work!

[Wooster]

^^^ The report is mostly technology neutral - but does set out potential mode progressions based on forecast demand. The plan takes the philosophy that we assign the appropriate technology based on need - and somewhat on cost. For instance 17th Avenue SE is a transitway in this plan - a median dedicated busway for the immediate future, but convertable to LRT if necessary or desired in the future. We'll have 6 to 8 legs of LRT when all is said and done, there's no way that say the 52nd street route will require LRT in this kind of timeframe. Buses at high frequency and with particular advantages like dedicated lanes and signal priority can be integral to a transit network and highly valued by riders.

[93JC]

Originally Posted by suburbia

You clearly don't know enough to be commenting.

I freely admit that north of Country Hills Blvd., west of 69th St W and south of Marquis of Lorne Tr. are so far from where I live and work that they might as well be Red Deer, Cochrane and Fort Macleod, respectively.

Despite my inflammatory language surely even you can glean from it my frustration with "the boonies" being provided with more transit infrastructure than well-established, denser, mixed-use neighbourhoods in the inner city. You know, old neighbourhoods where people would probably use transit for all sorts of trips?

Let's face it: outside of going to and from downtown Calgary Transit provides very poor service. It doesn't really go anywhere else. This plan exacerbates the problems the system already has.


Worse yet are the comments I've read on the Herald's website (I know, I know, it's the Herald website: what else would I expect?) clamouring for LRT to Cochrane, Airdrie and Okotoks to alleviate traffic 'problems' on Hwys 1A & 2. THAT is just nuts...

[93JC]

Seriously though, what the hell is 'Northpointe'? Coventry Hills? Something north of Stoney?

[DizzyEdge]

Speaking of stations, I've often been curious what the lifetime cost of aboveground stations due to environmental wear and tear + maintenance is compared to an underground one. Being that most of the underground station is protected from the elements, does it end up be a lot more expensive in the end?

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by 93JC

I freely admit that north of Country Hills Blvd., west of 69th St W and south of Marquis of Lorne Tr. are so far from where I live and work that they might as well be Red Deer, Cochrane and Fort Macleod, respectively.

North Pointe is one block from country hills. It has been the reserve for the north terminus for the NC LRT for perhaps two decades (give or take). In rush hour, even with service ever five minutes, the 301 accordion buses are full right from North Pointe. To put a time-distance on it, BRT from North Pointe to DT take 25 minutes (usually).

To put it in perspective of the South, Country Hills is 112 Ave north (so North Point maybe 115), and the south station you mentioned was 210 Ave north. I'm always insulted when the north sprawl is equated with the south sprawl. There is really no comparison.

[93JC]

Sprawl's sprawl, baby. I don't like any of it.