Saskatoon Core Living vs the Suburbs

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by asdfgh

How does the city limit availability of affordable condos downtown?\

There are plenty of ways that make building densely more expensive than it needs to be. Parking minimums is a big one. If a building's residents live and work downtown, there is no need for 1.5 parking spaces for each unit. Out in the suburbs where space is not at a premium, it is easy to pave a small cement pad and park to your heart's content. But for a condominium, each spot likely has to go underground and costs at least $30,000 each. The city also makes far more property taxes off of downtown residents. When you consider that 100 units stacked on top of each other downtown uses the same amount of roadway, sidewalks, and water pipes as three or four houses in the suburbs, and that those suburban residents use all of that infrastructure when they commute to, work, or shop downtown, it seems like suburban residents should almost be paying people to live downtown, and not vise-versa.

But it isn't so much that the city limits the affordability of condos downtown, but it is that the city allows endless sprawl outside the core. If available land isn't constrained by city limits, of course developers are going to snatch up cheap (by comparison) farm land, build McMansions, and sell them at a large profit margin. If living in Brighton or Rosewood or Kensington wasn't an option, perhaps there would more demand for and supply of downtown apartments.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by hunter12

I’m okay with having an extra room to “fill” and I love my yard and garden "yard to till". And my garage is not “too big”. I love my garden and having a yard to relax in. I sure as hell would not have wanted to raise my family in a condo. A condo was great when I was starting out and will be great again when I’m older and no longer need as much space and I can no longer “till my yard”.

If you are one of the rare people who utilizes their entire house and yard, kudos.

The fact is that most people severely underutilize their property. My in-laws have a large house in Erindale. 90 percent of their yard is grass which they never ever use. Their house also largely exists to store stuff. Their garage is packed to the gills with all of their belongings from the past 25 years. Their basement is lined with shelfs to hold more stuff.

I understand wanting to own a single family home, but the efficiency of a neighborhood like Rosewood with huge yards, meandering crescents, and three-car driveways is very far removed from Nutana with a street grid, small lots, less of a setback, and a garage off the alley with no parking pad.

[asdfgh]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

There are plenty of ways that make building densely more expensive than it needs to be. Parking minimums is a big one. If a building's residents live and work downtown, there is no need for 1.5 parking spaces for each unit. Out in the suburbs where space is not at a premium, it is easy to pave a small cement pad and park to your heart's content. But for a condominium, each spot likely has to go underground and costs at least $30,000 each. The city also makes far more property taxes off of downtown residents. When you consider that 100 units stacked on top of each other downtown uses the same amount of roadway, sidewalks, and water pipes as three or four houses in the suburbs, and that those suburban residents use all of that infrastructure when they commute to, work, or shop downtown, it seems like suburban residents should almost be paying people to live downtown, and not vise-versa.

There are no minimum parking requirements downtown. Also, as noted, there is a 5 year tax abatement incentive for development downtown, also if I recall correctly, I think council decided to way some (or most? all?) development levys for downtown development. So it sounds like they are on the same page you with that.

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

But it isn't so much that the city limits the affordability of condos downtown, but it is that the city allows endless sprawl outside the core. If available land isn't constrained by city limits, of course developers are going to snatch up cheap (by comparison) farm land, build McMansions, and sell them at a large profit margin. If living in Brighton or Rosewood or Kensington wasn't an option, perhaps there would more demand for and supply of downtown apartments.

As much as I could see it maybe shifting this if suburban development was limited, I question whether someone buying in Brighton would otherwise buy in the downtown if prices were just a bit more expensive in Brighton (or Evergreen or Kensington) due to the city limiting supply out there. I have a lot of trouble seeing limiting the supply of single-family lots in suburban neighbourhoods inspiring many people to move downtown.

Mayb if multi-unit lots were limited in the suburbs, but then the suburbs that get built would be less dense and more typical of what people think of sprawl, which isn't a great thing for anyone.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by asdfgh

There are no minimum parking requirements downtown. Also, as noted, there is a 5 year tax abatement incentive for development downtown, also if I recall correctly, I think council decided to way some (or most? all?) development levys for downtown development. So it sounds like they are on the same page you with that.

Mayb if multi-unit lots were limited in the suburbs, but then the suburbs that get built would be less dense and more typical of what people think of sprawl, which isn't a great thing for anyone.

You're right, downtown is zoned B6 which does not have parking minimums. But City Park and the other neighbourhoods surrounding downtown all have parking minimums which makes it difficult to build affordable units in the core. These minimums impact buildings like Baydo Towers or potential developoments like Highpoint.

The multi-unit developments in the suburbs are garbage. Everyone who lives at Ginger Lofts in Willowgrove drives to work and to run errands. There are no coffee shops or grocery stores or restaurants or places of work within walking distance. Same thing goes for the buildings on Maningas in Evergreen, or Sunrise Apartments in Stonebridge. There isn't even the hope for better transit service to these developments since they are tucked away in the back corner of neighborhoods. Let's be honest, lots of the suburban density is built where SFH owners don't want to live, such as backing highways 5 and 11.

[Saskabusher]

dt north city lands, city already paid hundreds of thousands for plans- build a complex with k to 12 schools, 3 buildings with prov and fed help, let BC developer or whoever build up the area like in the plan, and in 5-10 years you have a new, good place to live. why no movement? btw. the big house people can stay in them or buy even bigger, it's your freedom

[hunter12]

Originally Posted by Saskabusher

dt north city lands, city already paid hundreds of thousands for plans- build a complex with k to 12 schools, 3 buildings with prov and fed help, let BC developer or whoever build up the area like in the plan, and in 5-10 years you have a new, good place to live. why no movement? btw. the big house people can stay in them or buy even bigger, it's your freedom

There is already two elementary and two high schools in close proximity. There is City Park and Caswell elementary schools and Bedford Road and Nutana Collegiate high schools. If need be you can easily run school buses from this location to the schools.

[Saskabusher]

hunter12, you're funny. But you're right, it can easily be done.
out on highway 61

[Saskabusher]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4iurkjhIgo

[Saskabusher]

I just want to give a shout out to the Kinsmen who've kept supporting Saskatonians, young and old and in all aspects of life, since the 1920's! Unreal. And their focus on the core city, instead of expansion into the nether regions, with their home lotto is commendable. They have in fact become one of the best home builders in the city through their lottery. This is not an advertisement, this is a honking admission that these guys ROCK! All the best, now....

[Saskabusher]

One last observation, when I was walking around downtown, was that I met a lot of foreigners, who were very friendly. The white folks were older or young, and the diversity was really cool. I really enjoyed my time downtown. I would have no problem living there.