Saskatoon Core Living vs the Suburbs

[circle33]

From Broadway and 8th to Millar and 56th (approx). Good weather about 30 mins on bicycle. Bad weather about 15 mins driving.

[Ricopedra]

Thanks folks, please, any more?

[FarmerHaight]

Moved away during the pandemic, but I had a 5 minute bike ride from Victoria and 11th to 21st and 4th downtown. Took 15 to get home though because of the big a** hill on Victoria lol.

[Roquentin]

Pre-pandemic, I had a 20 minute walk/bus ride. Now I work from home.

[roryn1]

pre pandemic a 15 min walk. If I chose bus it would drop me off at the bus terminal which when you think about it isn’t next to any of the offices downtown lol. In winter I take an uber lots since walking isn’t bearable (which is why i’ll never understand why quite a few here hate tunnels and skywalks lol - my winnipeg coworkers loved doing long walks in them in the winters there during their breaks), but 100% will be switching that to BRT if the routes are reconfigured!

post pandemic work from home with zero plans to go back to the office. Probably leaving for most of the winters going forward since our city isn’t very winter friendly/has no plans to be. We have to be honest - we have it tough here in the winters and life is too short. I’ve heard of people that did work downtown were even working in Mexico over last winter. That will definitely be more normalized for a lot of execs that want high pay and high quality living so Saskatoon needs to really up their game in winter friendliness (warmed up bus stops for the new BRT, heated sidewalks, skywalks to enjoy walks/runs more in the winter that give a view of the river even on the coldest of days). Those are some multi multi million dollar asks but could produce multi million dollar returns. Probably not in my lifetime though.

Let’s start a 5-10km tunnel loop! hehe

[Roquentin]

Originally Posted by roryn1

i’ll never understand why quite a few here hate tunnels and skywalks lol

Let’s start a 5-10km tunnel loop! hehe

At the risk of beating a dead horse, when you've brought this up in the past, people have made valid arguments about why building a system of tunnels and skywalks isn't practical or prudent here right now. That is not the same thing as "hating" tunnels and skywalks. In general, your thoughts on pedways tend not to engage with the issues raised by other people here. Instead, your pedway posts mainly revolve around your personal dislike of the winter. That isn't something that anyone here can help you with, and it sounds like it goes further than Saskatoon doing more to embrace its "winter city" status.

[Ricopedra]

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[roryn1]

Imagine living in the Revera or Parkville manor downtown at age 70+ unable to go for a walk half of the year in your last few years of life - hence why so many move to BC in their golden years. With bearable pathways downtown Saskatoon could be a great year round retirement community instead of treated like a 4 month summer retreat for the retired that planned their finances properly. My 70 year old cancer prone condo neighbor went to greece all winter.

[Ricopedra]

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[Roquentin]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

No, winter really sucks, so much so that for long periods of those six months it's hard to cross the street. I'm a Saskatonian and one of my strongest memories is coming home from kindergarten with my feet so frozen I went to the floor radiator to warm my toes, but the heat just made them burn and hurt even worse. I cried and wanted to be transported, far away asap. Just saying. Tunnels, skywalks, covered streets and walkways: Bring them on! Even igloos have one! It's only not prudent because of sprawl. Downtown could be a winter paradise. Are you reading this, Mr. Mayor? Have we said how much we love you and support your ideas for downtown and a new arena, diversification, inclusion and density? Cheers!>)

Originally Posted by roryn1

Imagine living in the Revera or Parkville manor downtown at age 70+ unable to go for a walk half of the year in your last few years of life - hence why so many move to BC in their golden years. With bearable pathways downtown Saskatoon could be a great year round retirement community instead of treated like a 4 month summer retreat for the retired that planned their finances properly. My 70 year old cancer prone condo neighbor went to greece all winter.

The hyperbole here is a bit much. Simply put, the costs would be astronomical and the infrastructure would serve too few people to achieve broad, necessary, public support. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, Saskatoon's downtown is too small and too spread out for a pedway system to be an option except in specific, small-scale instances, like between a hypothetical arena and neighboring hotel. Seriously --- there are white elephants, and then there's what you're suggesting. Until Saskatoon builds a subway/lrt system or doubles in size, it won't happen in the kind of SimCity-ish way you both want.

If a person's quality of life were so compromised by Saskatoon's winters that they couldn't go outside for over half the year, then yeah, I'd suggest they move, if possible. Bellyaching about pipe dreams isn't the solution. Raising ambiguous concerns about Saskatoon's sprawl or lack of "bearable pathways" isn't the solution. There are reasons why Saskatoon is small, and winter has always been one of them, since the beginning. Even the most elaborate downtown pedway system wouldn't change a thing for the vast majority of the people who live here and somehow manage to survive without being inside 24/7 365.

Continuing to focus on pedways is unfortunate because there are more immediate, real-world priorities that the city needs to focus on to improve our collective experience of the winter. Fortunately, the city already takes care of a lot of those priorities (though we might complain about the rate at which streets are plowed, etc.). What I'd like to see is a more sustained focus on improving the city's transit options, beginning with a BRT system (yes, with heated stations!) fed by networks of neighborhood buses. Pedways are a discussion for another decade, in my opinion, but building the city's transit system now will help us get there by focusing on a broader mode of public mobility that can then become increasingly granular as demand dictates (including, say, pedways between BRT stations and major hubs like an arena, hospital, university, etc.). Even better, the city wouldn't be starting from scratch, unlike with a pedway system. I'd also like to see more attempts at public engagement, such as these examples from Edmonton and Winnipeg:

https://www.wintercityedmonton.ca/

https://www.tourismwinnipeg.com/winter-experiences

[Ricopedra]

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[Ricopedra]

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[Roquentin]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

^^As the city continues to spend millions of dollars building 8ft soundwalls along every major road so the suburbanites don't have to hear their own traffic noise. Perfect.

Well, definitely over a hundred million in total, which could build a four block square housing neighbourhood with a skating rink in the middle of the downtown north industrial area, with market condos above and shops at street level for rent or sale. Who knows? Just have some inspiration, ffs!

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

Who can't go outside for half a year? At least stay on the page. There are great things about the freezing f-ing cold, but it gets to ya after a while, know what I mean? Montreal has an underground. Why not start a bit of planning now? Capicse?

I'd love to see the city make more investments in the core and central neighborhoods to encourage urban rather than suburban growth, and there are hundreds of inspired, achievable ways to do that. Building a network of tunnels and walkways in our current downtown is, frankly, one of the most misguided, "putting the cart before the horse" ideas I've heard on the subject. Yes, Montreal has an underground. Montreal also had as much office space under construction at the end of 2020 as Saskatoon has in its entire downtown right now. Have some inspiration?! There's a difference between being inspired and making decisions that are based in reality. Here is what I mean. News like this (old news, to be fair) is encouraging:

https://www.saskatoon.ca/news-releas...-land-purchase

This is what real progress looks like in north downtown, though it doesn't include a skating rink (yet, lol). But take note of the timeframe. The relocation is slated to take place in 2028. They didn't pick that number out of a hat. I'd imagine it's, as I say, a decision based in reality, even if it doesn't suit a "snap my fingers and make it so" mentality.

Our society is so impulsive; people want everything all at once. That isn't realistic in such a complex system of moving parts as Saskatoon. This is a small city, and that fact needs to be respected in part because mistakes are felt for a long time here. You talk about inspiration and planning in such broad strokes, but those things are already happening in meaningful (and usually competent, responsible) ways that will take us towards half a million citizens in fine form. Have some patience.

(By the way, the "half a year" comment was more in reference to roryn1's posts.)

[hunter12]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

Survey Says!

Dear Skyscraperpage Members in Saskatoon specifically:

Would you be kind enough to state your regular/average daily work commute time and your method of travel so that a base could be established? It would also be interesting to state your start and end points, but not necessary. Does anyone use public transit? Does anyone ride-share? Make note of anything you feel is atypical about your daily commute. Cheers, and thanks to those of you who take the time to respond.

Pre pandemic from my kitchen table in Arbor Creek to my desk downtown was under 20 minutes including walking a block to the office from my parking spot. Transit is useless, absolutely useless, as it takes over 40 minutes. In addition to the 40min, it gets me there either 20min early or 10min late so I would have to adjust my start and end times. Proposed BRT will not make a significant difference so I will not be using it unless it can cut the time down from 40min to under 25min and that won't happen.

[Sask.ks]

Originally Posted by hunter12

Pre pandemic from my kitchen table in Arbor Creek to my desk downtown was under 20 minutes including walking a block to the office from my parking spot. Transit is useless, absolutely useless, as it takes over 40 minutes. In addition to the 40min, it gets me there either 20min early or 10min late so I would have to adjust my start and end times. Proposed BRT will not make a significant difference so I will not be using it unless it can cut the time down from 40min to under 25min and that won't happen.

Yea, looking at the proposed route map I wish they added more queue-jump lanes. Maybe there isn’t the space needed along the routes. I’m hoping the BRT lines will at least provide competitive commute times for those who live directly on the proposed routes. Pair that with the Corridor Growth Plan and it’s definitely a step in the right direction for Saskatoon Transit.

I really hope they make some serious progress on building and launching the BRT before Clark’s second term is up...I get the feeling our next mayor could be of the Atchison/Norris archetype and try to backtrack or postpone the BRT as proposed.

[Ricopedra]

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[Crisis]

Just to stir things up a bit more, I will throw in this observation regarding pedestrian walkways.

On campus at the U of S, one can access most buildings via tunnels or overhead walkways without needing to go outside. All buildings in the immediate vicinity of the bowl are connected, as are many buildings further away such as Agriculture, Engineering & the PAC. In many cases the connections were added to buildings that had been in place for decades.

The area of campus connected like this may not be as large as all downtown Saskatoon, but would represent a good chunk of the "core" of downtown. So, it's not like it's unachievable or unwanted by most. Even in an environment of people generally committed to sustainability and embracing nature, the indoor route is the one used by the vast majority of people in the winter.

[scotty c]

Originally Posted by Crisis

Just to stir things up a bit more, I will throw in this observation regarding pedestrian walkways.

On campus at the U of S, one can access most buildings via tunnels or overhead walkways without needing to go outside. All buildings in the immediate vicinity of the bowl are connected, as are many buildings further away such as Agriculture, Engineering & the PAC. In many cases the connections were added to buildings that had been in place for decades.

The area of campus connected like this may not be as large as all downtown Saskatoon, but would represent a good chunk of the "core" of downtown. So, it's not like it's unachievable or unwanted by most. Even in an environment of people generally committed to sustainability and embracing nature, the indoor route is the one used by the vast majority of people in the winter.

I think that there are a few reasons that make tunnels at the University far more doable than trying to replicate the same through the downtown. The first and most obvious is that the University owns all the land and buildings so they can make a decision and move on it easily. To get connection downtown you’d have to coordinate the city and dozens of property owners on things like hours of operation, route etc. Not impossible but certainly far more challenging.

The other issue is the amount of frequent localized movement on campus compared to downtown. Students may need to be in 3-5 different classrooms, labs, food outlets or dorm rooms each day. Perhaps more if they are going to the gym or bookstore. The average person downtown goes to work and that’s it. Some may go for lunch or shopping or have multiple meetings downtown but for the most part there are 1 or 2 destinations each day.

[Ricopedra]

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[scotty c]

Originally Posted by Ricopedra

scotty c, thanks for your input, but you're talking about how things are and not how they can be. If you build a bridge, do people use it? If you build a wider bridge, do more people use it? Overpasses, underpasses, on and off ramps out the keister, everyone protected by their cars from the elements. But a twenty story assisted living home with a skywalk across the street to a grocery store with another 10 storys of condos on top, which is connected to the other side of the street where the new library is, all open to the public, is unfeasible? Interesting. Verrrry interesting;>)

On this topic, are there a lot of critics against the Calgary plus system? Don't forget, when the weather's fine, everyone wants to go outside. It's a winter (and) convenience thing. All I ask is open your minds...to a better winter.

Think outside the box. Of your car.

I guess the issue that was being spoken to wasn’t a tunnel between two obviously connected buildings like a high rise and a grocery store that would obviously be used as they are in each other’s best interest. The issue is what if there is an office tower and a 1 story building housing a tattoo parlor between the high rise and the grocery store. It becomes much more difficult to convince 4 building owners all with different needs/wants to build a connecting system of tunnels and all agree on how they should be used.

It’s not impossible but it’s not likely. Perhaps if a few buildings can see the light and build a few connections they may start a trend and build out from there but I’m not holding my breath.