The Awful Canadian Stroad Thread - Page 7

ue · #**121** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 4:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Ottawa seemed to get a lot of investment in the Mulroney years (museums, etc) that carried over into the lean first term of Chrétien. I think their basic public realm “look” with the pink granite pavers and the globe lights on streets like Wellington and Confederation Square date from that era.

Yeah, that's a good catch. The only cities that come to mind as 'doing ok' in the '90s are Vancouver, Victoria, Calgary, and Ottawa. But even Edmonton was in rough shape, going into population decline for a year or two. Saskatchewan was stagnant until around 2008-2010. This was in sharp contrast to the States, whose cities were growing pretty decently at that time, even post-industrial ones like Chicago.

SignalHillHiker · #**122** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 10:01 AM**

St. John's looked worse in the 1980s but the 90s were rough too. But, I mean, it's never not been rough here - excluding several years in the 1910s, 1940s, and 2010s. Other than that, even when things were going well economically, we burned to the ground.

esquire · #**123** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 12:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Ottawa seemed to get a lot of investment in the Mulroney years (museums, etc) that carried over into the lean first term of Chrétien. I think their basic public realm “look” with the pink granite pavers and the globe lights on streets like Wellington and Confederation Square date from that era.

That's certainly true. Plus Ottawa had that tech boom thing happening in the 90s with Nortel, Corel, Mitel, etc... I recall that in those years some of my tech-oriented friends gravitated that way.

But even though Ottawa weathered the situation reasonably well, I think it's fair to say that there was still a distinct malaise throughout Canada's cities in that era. There was quite a combination of the recession, the effects of NAFTA, the mounting toll of years of suburban sprawl, probably some other city-specific factors thrown into the mix as well. It was not a great era but at least it was fairly short lived.

Truenorth00 · #**124** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 1:33 PM**

What's sad is that we didn't learn much from the 80s and 90s and are still building suburban blight belts around most of our cities that will bring substantial liabilities in the future.

jonny24 · #**125** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 1:40 PM**

I think there's a difference between "stroads" that could be much improved - i.e. Main and King in Hamilton, and some that would be hard to do much of anything with, like the super wide ones in Mississauga. Mostly due to the age of the developments along them.

thewave46 · #**126** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 1:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

What's sad is that we didn't learn much from the 80s and 90s and are still building suburban blight belts around most of our cities that will bring substantial liabilities in the future.

It was a different era and the foresight wasn't there for anything beyond the immediate term.

In the '80s and early '90s Canada was limping along poorly enough that any development was viewed positively.

Unemployment into the double digits in most of the country, the dollar tanking, governments hacking budgets, the country nearly tearing itself apart. It was not a happy time.

New urbanity would have been a tough sell in that era.

esquire · #**127** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 2:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46

In the '80s and early '90s Canada was limping along poorly enough that any development was viewed positively.

It's hard to overstate how little downtown development was happening in those days. Even when I first joined this forum it was pretty easy to keep tabs on every downtown office tower project in Canada because there were so few of them. Now we get one construction photo update for Calgary, Halifax, whatever and that alone is overwhelming.

Truenorth00 · #**128** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 2:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46

New urbanity would have been a tough sell in that era.

In that era yes. But why are we still building stroads to SFD suburbs today with everything we know today?

thewave46 · #**129** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 2:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

In that era yes. But why are we still building stroads to SFD suburbs today with everything we know today?

We've had 3 generations of momentum in this direction, mostly.

Big ships don't turn on a dime. Inertia is huge, especially when demographics is involved. Convincing my parents to give up their long-paid for SFH for an urban experience is a hard sell. When you're talking about several trillion dollars worth of homes in this country that have the same mindset, it's a formidable obstacle.

Even a lot of 'settled' things still have resistance among the older set. I haven't polled them, but my grandparents probably still hold a dim view of homosexuality, even though it has been legal for same-sex couples to marry in Canada for nearly a generation.

SignalHillHiker · #**130** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 3:00 PM**

We're building it because there's consumer demand. Most people in most cities are priced out of streetcar suburbia that residents actually love, and current zoning laws make it practically illegal to build more. They usually don't know any better - and, even when they do, people have convinced themselves Canadian-style suburbia is "at least a great place to raise kids" - when it's really, really not.

• Video Link

MolsonExport · #**131** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 4:51 PM**

Stroads, Big Box Barf, and drive-thrus represent everything that is wrong with the way our cities are planned and laid out. Importantly, the former makes the latter two possible.

Innsertnamehere · #**132** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 5:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

In that era yes. But why are we still building stroads to SFD suburbs today with everything we know today?

Yup. Check out Dundas Street in Oakville. 70km/h, 6 lane arterial line by apartment buildings. It was reconstructed as recently as last year.

Truenorth00 · #**133** Posted **Jun 23, 2021, 5:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Importantly, the former makes the latter two possible.

Exactly. The business model for big box stores would be awfully different in more urbanized cities. Cheap parking (a poor use of land) accessed by stroads is what makes this possible.

Miska · #**134** Posted **Jun 25, 2021, 7:45 PM**

Really interesting thread. I learned a new word! And I can relate this word directly to a local stroad.Taschereau boulevard.

It is cited many times as the bad experience, the wrong way.
We don't want to make a Taschereau out of this road or in our community.

It is officially a numbered highway, but at the same time it is one of the longuest commercial artery in Canada over 14 km.

Along it's history, sidewalks have been added, but still stretches of road are not pedestrian friendly.

It is awkward for cars also, if one wants to go to a shop across the street, the driver must make a long detour. Some businesses even closed due to the access difficulty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taschereau_Boulevard

https://goo.gl/maps/dRibwziaVpbUqyZo9

https://goo.gl/maps/soAxQBDGE7h6zBcm9

https://goo.gl/maps/hm5EjTAngYFeLphj6

Proof Sheet · #**135** Posted **Jun 25, 2021, 8:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Stroads, Big Box Barf, and drive-thrus represent everything that is wrong with the way our cities are planned and laid out. Importantly, the former makes the latter two possible.

I'm sure there is a Venn diagram of that somewhere?

Proof Sheet · #**136** Posted **Jun 25, 2021, 8:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miska

Really interesting thread. I learned a new word! And I can relate this word directly to a local stroad.Taschereau boulevard.

It is cited many times as the bad experience, the wrong way.
We don't want to make a Taschereau out of this road or in our community.

It is officially a numbered highway, but at the same time it is one of the longuest commercial artery in Canada over 14 km.

Along it's history, sidewalks have been added, but still stretches of road are not pedestrian friendly.

It is awkward for cars also, if one wants to go to a shop across the street, the driver must make a long detour. Some businesses even closed due to the access difficulty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taschereau_Boulevard

https://goo.gl/maps/dRibwziaVpbUqyZo9

https://goo.gl/maps/soAxQBDGE7h6zBcm9

https://goo.gl/maps/hm5EjTAngYFeLphj6

This is nearby..hey at least there is a bike lane..Interesting roof lines.

https://goo.gl/maps/uHjsvT39YoV7JdbM9

OldDartmouthMark · #**137** Posted **Jul 8, 2021, 6:57 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Stroads, Big Box Barf, and drive-thrus represent everything that is wrong with the way our cities are planned and laid out. Importantly, the former makes the latter two possible.

I can't help but be reminded of this song when I read this thread...

MolsonExport · #**138** Posted **Jul 8, 2021, 3:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I can't help but be reminded of this song when I read this thread...

Just the idea of sixteen (!) lane highways is crazy, yet the fact that they exist (and still get choked up) is purely nuts. And the 401 actually gets wider still in several sections.

hades

MolsonExport · #**139** Posted **Jul 8, 2021, 3:04 PM**

A stroadville thread would be remiss without this.

• Video Link

play this song as you drive along Hurontario, McCowan, Wonderland, Finch, Boul St. Jean, Boul. St. Martin, Burnhamthorpe, or whatever horrible stroad that looms large in your neighborhood.

play it as you take a turn off of one of these stroads into the faceless and bleak cookie-cutter snouthouseland that lies just behind the big box barf lining these wretched roads.

OldDartmouthMark · #**140** Posted **Jul 8, 2021, 3:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

A stroadville thread would be remiss without this.

play this song as you drive along Hurontario, McCowan, Wonderland, Finch, Boul St. Jean, Boul. St. Martin, Burnhamthorpe, or whatever horrible stroad that looms large in your neighborhood.

play it as you take a turn off of one of these stroads into the faceless and bleak cookie-cutter snouthouseland that lies just behind the big box barf lining these wretched roads.

An excellent choice.

RIP Neil Peart.