Canadian LRT/RT projects U/C

[Rico Rommheim]

I'm no expert, but with the additional 67km of rail to Montreal's existing 69km of metro + the 5km blue line extension (total of 141km), this would make the Montreal RT system the longest in the country, no? Maybe even the second longest in NA?

edit: I just checked, it would make it NA's 4th (currently 7th) longest behind NYC, Mexico and Washington (!!). I'm also not sure how much TO is adding, or Vancouver for that matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_by_ridership

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

I'm no expert, but with the additional 67km of rail to Montreal's existing 69km of metro + the 5km blue line extension (total of 141km), this would make the Montreal RT system the longest in the country, no? Maybe even the second longest in NA?

edit: I just checked, it would make it NA's 4th (currently 7th) longest behind NYC, Mexico and Washington (!!). I'm also not sure how much TO is adding, or Vancouver for that matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_by_ridership

Vancouver is adding less than 10km and Toronto is adding probably around 40km.

[Rico Rommheim]

Ok nice, so then Montreal will retain its title as the longest RT system in the country and increase the margin while at it (as it is now essentially tied with Van and TO).

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Let's say each light metro train was only 2/3 full, it could handle only an extra 200 people, meaning some people transferring from commuter rail may have to wait for 4 or more trains before being able to squeeze in. Yes, the light metro is frequent, but waiting for 4 trains to pass by is still going to take time.

Let's keep in mind that this is a line which serves fewer than 5000 people per weekday. It's basically a lightly-used rush-hour bus line on steel wheels (and with pitiful/unusable frequency). But I agree with you that it's far from an ideal situation for those 4500 passengers although I suspect that it may be temporary; a REM extension eastwards to Montréal-Nord and beyond would yield very high ridership, if only because of the people using it as an Orange Line bypass at métro Sauvé. In such a scenario, the Train de l'est would be reduced to a shortened shuttle service between the east of Montreal and a parking lot in Mascouche. And I think transit service in the city would be better for it.

[Rico Rommheim]

I did a quick comparison of the 2016 Montreal map and the expected RT network sometime after 2020, including the blue line extension, (but i did not include the future BRT):

2016

-2 by Rommheim, on Flickr

2020's

-1 by Rommheim, on Flickr

[MonkeyRonin]

REM isn't part of the Metro. It's a commuter rail service, more in line with the RER happening in Toronto which will have a length of at least twice that to start (not sure what it'll eventually end up as - GO has a total route length of 400 km, but not all of it will be brought up to RER standard...at least half of it will be though).

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Let's keep in mind that this is a line which serves fewer than 5000 people per weekday. It's basically a lightly-used rush-hour bus line on steel wheels (and with pitiful/unusable frequency). But I agree with you that it's far from an ideal situation for those 4500 passengers although I suspect that it may be temporary; a REM extension eastwards to Montréal-Nord and beyond would yield very high ridership, if only because of the people using it as an Orange Line bypass at métro Sauvé. In such a scenario, the Train de l'est would be reduced to a shortened shuttle service between the east of Montreal and a parking lot in Mascouche. And I think transit service in the city would be better for it.

An eastward REM service would probably go all the way to Mascouche.

Terrebonne is a big suburb (101,000) and so are Repentigny (82,000) and Mascouche (42,000) so I would be surprised if they were left out.

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

REM isn't part of the Metro.

That's right, it's a different technology. But it remains rapid transit.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

REM isn't part of the Metro. It's a commuter rail service, more in line with the RER happening in Toronto which will have a length of at least twice that to start (not sure what it'll eventually end up as - GO has a total route length of 400 km, but not all of it will be brought up to RER standard...at least half of it will be though).

It's definitely not commuter rail... I'd say it's more like a light metro, similar to the Skytrain.

[J.OT13]

Even if it's a different technology, I hope it is categorised as a new Metro line. I'm not a fan of how Toronto categorizes it's lines as totally different systems (the TTC Subway, the TTC Scarborough RT, the GO Eglinton Crosstown...) Just call the whole thing the Toronto Subway, jut like New York calls the whole system the Subway even though a large part is above ground.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Even if it's a different technology, I hope it is categorised as a new Metro line. I'm not a fan of how Toronto categorizes it's lines as totally different systems (the TTC Subway, the TTC Scarborough RT, the GO Eglinton Crosstown...) Just call the whole thing the Toronto Subway, jut like New York calls the whole system the Subway even though a large part is above ground.

I'm not sure that's the best example considering that even though the IRT, BMT and IND have been integrated, the PATH system, and JFK AirTrain, are still treated as totally separate metro systems from the NYC subway.

[SkahHigh]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

2020's

-1 by Rommheim, on Flickr

Looking at this map, we can see that the areas now in dire need of rapid transit are Côte-St-Luc, Lachine and the eastern boroughs.

[Rico Rommheim]

^Yes that entire enclave between the train tracks and the Decarie expressway (NDG, Cote-St-Luc, Montreal-West: total population 100,000+) is crying for the blue line to extend out west. Even the bus situation in that area is a crying shame.

LaSalle, Lachine are both desperately needing the green line to go west as well.

Ideally you'd see:
-the blue line go to Cavendish
-the Green line to the shores of lac St-Louis
-and the Hudson AMT line turned into a full LRT like Deux-Montagne.
-The rumours that the Train de l'est line may be turned into a future phase of the REM is promising, because it would fix the eastern boroughs' problems.
-Expansion of the yellow line in Longueuil and the closing of the orange line loop in Laval are in my opinion less important than any expansion on the island.

[GreaterMontréal]

Montréal REM

20h/day
7 days/week ,
100km/h max speed
4 car train at rush hour
2 car train off-peak times
150 passenger capacity/car boa type/2 cars
200 cars
ground-underground-overhead

rush hour frequency
South Shore to Downtown : 3min to 6min
Airport to Downtown : 6min to 12min
Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue to Downtown : 6min to 12min
Deux-Montagnes to Downtown : 6min to 12min

connections to the Bus network - 3 Metro lines and the Commuter Rail network.

it's not a RER

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by SkahHigh

Looking at this map, we can see that the areas now in dire need of rapid transit are Côte-St-Luc, Lachine and the eastern boroughs.

I also drew a map of what I believe are reasonable goals the city should strive for. This is not a dream scenario, but something I believe the city will one day build (give it like 80 years or something).


-3 by Rommheim, on Flickr

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

^Yes that entire enclave between the train tracks and the Decarie expressway (NDG, Cote-St-Luc, Montreal-West: total population 100,000+) is crying for the blue line to extend out west. Even the bus situation in that area is a crying shame.

LaSalle, Lachine are both desperately needing the green line to go west as well.

Ideally you'd see:
-the blue line go to Cavendish
-the Green line to the shores of lac St-Louis
-and the Hudson AMT line turned into a full LRT like Deux-Montagne.
-The rumours that the Train de l'est line may be turned into a future phase of the REM is promising, because it would fix the eastern boroughs' problems.
-Expansion of the yellow line in Longueuil and the closing of the orange line loop in Laval are in my opinion less important than any expansion on the island.

the BRT should be included in the rapid transit map, 70,000 ppd
24h/day - 7days/week

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim

I also drew a map of what I believe are reasonable goals the city should strive for. This is not a dream scenario, but something I believe the city will one day build (give it like 80 years or something).


-3 by Rommheim, on Flickr

the REM goes all the way to Quartier 10-30

you should include the commuter rail network to show the complete RTM map

[Rico Rommheim]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

the REM goes all the way to Quartier 10-30

It does? Or it will? I thought Panama was the terminal. Ok I added that.


Anyways since I'm here I made another "future map" including a the Pie IX BRT (I drew it from Henri-Bou to Notre-Dame, although I'm not sure where it really ends). And while I'm at it I added a fantasy BRT expansion spanning Notre-Dame/Rene-Levesque all the way to Atwater metro.


-4 by Rommheim, on Flickr

[GreaterMontréal]

It does? Or it will? I thought Panama was the terminal. Ok I added that.

Panama
du Quartier
Rive-sud

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I'm not sure that's the best example considering that even though the IRT, BMT and IND have been integrated, the PATH system, and JFK AirTrain, are still treated as totally separate metro systems from the NYC subway.

PATH should probably be considered part of the NYC subway, but the JFK AirTrain is more of a UPX type system (different technology, similar concept) that connects JFK airport with the main subway system.