Which cities in N.A. are urbanizing and transforming the most?

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Crawford

An alley is a street;.

No it's not

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Building more subways is a great step and I wish SF was doing more of the same. But the thing is, people in SF actually use public transit. In another thread that was posted in City Discussions, only 4.7% of workers in the LA MSA use public transportation for 2019. That is abysmal! In the city of LA, only 8.75% of workers use public transit. That's less than most suburbs in the Bay Area.

Angelenos will ride public transit if rail is built where the people actually want/need to go. For instance, the Crenshaw Line northern extension (which has partial funding and political momentum) from Expo/Crenshaw to Hollywood/Highland (and potentially the Hollywood Bowl) is projected to average 9,089-14,029 riders per mile, depending on which of the three routes is chosen. The La Brea alternative, with a projected ridership density of 14,029 per mile, is higher than every US rapid transit system outside of NYC Subway and PATH.

The people of Los Angeles will still love and drive their cars, but car ownership is also common in all of the transit-oriented cities in North America, including NYC. The key for LA is getting Angelenos to use transit for long-distance commutes instead of fossil fuel-emitting automobiles. Other than that, there wouldn't be much of a difference between LA and the Bay Area, Chicago, DC, Philly, Boston, Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

No it's not

An alley isn't a street? Then what is it?

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by Crawford

An alley isn't a street? Then what is it?

A place of murder.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Angelenos will ride public transit if rail is built where the people actually want/need to go. For instance, the Crenshaw Line northern extension (which has partial funding and political momentum) from Expo/Crenshaw to Hollywood/Highland (and potentially the Hollywood Bowl) is projected to average 9,089-14,029 riders per mile, depending on which of the three routes is chosen. The La Brea alternative, with a projected ridership density of 14,029 per mile, is higher than every US rapid transit system outside of NYC Subway and PATH.

The people of Los Angeles will still love and drive their cars, but car ownership is also common in all of the transit-oriented cities in North America, including NYC. The key for LA is getting Angelenos to use transit for long-distance commutes instead of fossil fuel-emitting automobiles. Other than that, there wouldn't be much of a difference between LA and the Bay Area, Chicago, DC, Philly, Boston, Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver.

Exactly. We're just now starting to see rail lines to where the jobs are located. In any event, the fact that 91% of the people in the Bay don't use transit compared to 95% in LA isn't exactly an amazing statistic.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Crawford

An alley isn't a street? Then what is it?

Well, it's a public ROW, but it's not a "street" in the sense that most people view streets.

I certainly don't think in Chicago, for example, that anybody sees a random alley is something even remotely equivalent to Halsted St.

Using Chicago again as my familiar example, alleys aren't named, for one. There are no addresses linked to alleys. They don't appear on any street maps.. They aren't intended to be used as a form of transportation. They simply exist as "service roads" for trash pickup, utility work, garage access, etc. Building "front doors" are generally not supposed to face alleys or motor courts, they are supposed to face either public streets or courtyards. Thus there is a very clear delineation between a "street" and an "alley".

[TexasPlaya]

Not as versed on other regions but as far as Texas/SE goes:

ATL
DFW
Houston
ATX/Nashville

To be clear, this is arguing over the tallest midget in the context of an urban/skyscraper forum. The big cities have a head start over ATX/Nashville. ATL gets a nod over DFW and Houston due to its heavy rail, but it should be noted there's not much difference in transit % between the big 3 at the metro level. There's probably an argument to be made for either DFW or Houston as 1st or 2nd, but I think ATL comes out ahead.

[mhays]

By "garage" I'm referring to what some regions call a "parking deck" or "ramp." If most or all of it's above-grade, that's not very urban.

[Stay Stoked Brah]

Originally Posted by Crawford

An alley isn't a street? Then what is it?

an alley is defined as being a narrow passageway behind buildings. a street would refer to a public way in front of buildings.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

An alley isn't a street? Then what is it?

it's an alley.

in some places, the street/alley distinction can get awfully blurry, but in cities like chicago with an extremely rigid hierarchy of public ROWs, "street" and "alley" come to define two completely different and separate types of ROWs from a functional, aesthetic, and psychological perspective.

no one in chicago has ever confused an "alley" for a "street" or vice-versa. the distinction is rock solid here.

chicago street: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9375...7i16384!8i8192

chicago alley: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9375...7i16384!8i8192

[Stay Stoked Brah]

If you drive in an alley you're probably driving about 5-15 mph, dodging obstacles. if you're driving on a street it'll be 25-50 mph with marked addresses and entrances.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Stay Stoked Brah

If you drive in an alley you're probably driving about 5-15 mph, dodging obstacles. if you're driving on a street it'll be 25-50 mph with marked addresses and entrances.

Lies. I've seen countless movies where they blast through those alleys at 80 taking out at least a dozen or so garbage cans and traumatizing a bunch stray cats...

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by JManc

Lies. I've seen countless movies where they blast through those alleys at 80 taking out at least a dozen or so garbage cans and traumatizing a bunch stray cats...

And causes the homeless dude to spill his booze and get all angry, shaking his fist

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

it's an alley.

in some places, the street/alley distinction can get awfully blurry, but in cities like chicago with an extremely rigid hierarchy of public ROWs, "street" and "alley" come to define two completely different and separate types of ROWs from a functional, aesthetic, and psychological perspective.

no one in chicago has ever confused an "alley" for a "street" or vice-versa. the distinction is rock solid here.

street: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9375...7i16384!8i8192

alley: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9375...7i16384!8i8192

Yeah, this is one of the few alleys in Manhattan: https://goo.gl/maps/SkgfbxETDd24TaLq5

[Stay Stoked Brah]

Originally Posted by pj3000

And causes the homeless dude to spill his booze and get all angry, shaking his fist

might involve a young mother pushing a stroller through a random alley

[craigs]

Originally Posted by pj3000

And causes the homeless dude to spill his booze and get all angry, shaking his fist

. . . thus soaking his fingerless gloves.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Yeah, this is one of the few alleys in Manhattan: https://goo.gl/maps/SkgfbxETDd24TaLq5

That’s not an alley, it is clearly a street. It’s just narrow, but it is still a street. It even has a street name and sidewalks

[Easy]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

it's an alley.

in some places, the street/alley distinction can get awfully blurry, but in cities like chicago with an extremely rigid hierarchy of public ROWs, "street" and "alley" come to define two completely different and separate types of ROWs from a functional, aesthetic, and psychological perspective.

no one in chicago has ever confused an "alley" for a "street" or vice-versa. the distinction is rock solid here.

chicago street: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9375...7i16384!8i8192

chicago alley: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9375...7i16384!8i8192

I'd say that LA is the same. I don't think that all cities have alleys though. For example, despite what we see in Spider-Man comics, NYC has very few.

I think that the line is only blurred in two cases. One is if there are businesses that open to face the alley. LA has only a few that I know of.

https://goo.gl/maps/yLHfxgSdQthPF16o7

Another exception is when alleys have street names. We have many more of those.

https://goo.gl/maps/xd2E2xcHBKG98sQx5

I also find that lots of streets in European cities blue the line between street and alley.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

That’s not an alley, it is clearly a street. It’s just narrow, but it is still a street. It even has a street name and sidewalks

I think that we would call that an alley in California since it's primarily designed for delivery and not other traffic. It even has "alley" in the street name. The only difference is that it has a sidewalk.

[the urban politician]

^ If it’s got a name and sidewalks, it ain’t no alley

Damn it!!!!