HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2010, 6:52 PM
adam-machiavelli adam-machiavelli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,244
Now that I got your attention by demonstrating my advanced mapping and graphic communication skills, I would like to let you all know that even though I am fresh out of planning school, I am currently unemployed (I know I'm not the only one in this situation). If you know of any planning-related jobs that are available or will be filled in the near future, could you passed them on to me?

Thanks in advance
A-M
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2011, 4:42 PM
DarkArconio DarkArconio is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 182
Future Transit System Ideas - Ottawa/Gatineau | Fantasy

http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/01/11/stuck-in-traffic/

An excellent plan summarised by Andrew Coyne in Macleans, I think it would go a very long way to reducing all the common complaints most people on this forum seem to have about our city: sprawl, heavy traffic and transit issues. An elegant solution that would likely be the most efficient way of changing people's habits and showing them the true costs of living in a suburb and driving everywhere.

It's worth noting that at times when road congestion is low, the tolls he is proposing could perhaps be free.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2011, 7:18 PM
DubberDom DubberDom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 201
I think the opposite would happen, it would likely lead to more urban sprawl as companies decide to set up along non-toll corridors.

The main issue with traffic jams is the lack of planning and vision.

Take Orleans as an example, the former Cumberland Municipality wanted to create an urban centre (Centrum) next to Place D'Orleans where you would have all retail, government and higher density development attached to public transit and a highway. When I was a kid growing up in Orleans, everything happened in the Place D'Orleans/Centrum area, and all buses lead to there. Today, Place and Centrum is a ghost town, no more theater, heck, even East Side's will be closing down... everything has been move to Big-Box drive up to the store Innes road, and the congestion is unbearable. There is to pedestrian or really effective public transit access along the 6 km stretch of retail hell they created.

Ottawa's traffic issues could be solved with a couple of projects, most of which are long overdue
1) Twin Airport Parkway and open up south end development, improve Bronson/417 access
2) Extend Nicholas to Riverside, build Alta Vista Parkway to Conroy
3) Build inter-provincial bridge at Kettle Island, grade separate Aviation parkway and improve 417/174/Aviation interchange
4) 4 full lanes along entire 417 corridor in Ottawa (planned to begin in 2012)
3) Add lane to 174 to Orleans, extend 174 to Rockland beyond Trim using new alignment south of Cumberland. Current 174 should not be twinned beyond Trim.

Last edited by DubberDom; Jan 12, 2011 at 7:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2011, 7:58 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Unapologetic Occidental
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 68,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubberDom View Post
Take Orleans as an example, the former Cumberland Municipality wanted to create an urban centre (Centrum) next to Place D'Orleans where you would have all retail, government and higher density development attached to public transit and a highway. When I was a kid growing up in Orleans, everything happened in the Place D'Orleans/Centrum area, and all buses lead to there. Today, Place and Centrum is a ghost town, no more theater, heck, even East Side's will be closing down... everything has been move to Big-Box drive up to the store Innes road, and the congestion is unbearable. There is to pedestrian or really effective public transit access along the 6 km stretch of retail hell they created.
East Side Mario's on Centrum is closing???? Is the Cumberland Arms still open?

I grew up in Orleans and it is pretty depressing when you consider what could have been in the Centrum vicinity.

In addition to a decent layout, Centrum had the advantage of being the logical eastward extension of the historic heart of the community located along St-Joseph.

What is more disheartening is that the mess on Innes was pretty much all built in the last 5-10 years. If it had happened in the 70s and 80s, I would understand more. But in the 2000s you would think planners and politicians would be a bit more enlightened and progressive and not allow this without putting up at least some type of resistance.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2011, 9:19 PM
DarkArconio DarkArconio is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 182
Well the point is that every corridor would be a toll corridor, and driving would cost money just like talking on a cell phone (both of which you have to pay for gas or electricity to run in the first place). All roads inside and into a city experience some sort of traffic, so they would all have tolls on them. Only country roads with minimal traffic wouldn't have tolls, but anyone living along them would need to drive to work farther and farther along toll roads. It would discourage too much driving, and encourage people to live, work, and play in the nearby areas, and take public transit or walk in between them.

The complaint about planning and vision implies that city planners can somehow figure out the best design, while on the other hand making people pay the economic costs of traffic up front will make the population and market forces figure out the best city design. As it is right now someone living downtown and walking to work every day pays just as much (or more because of higher property values) to maintain the city's roads as someone who lives in barhaven and actually drives many km to work every day. Doesn't seem to make much sense to me.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2011, 10:06 PM
adam-machiavelli adam-machiavelli is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,244
I think the opposite would happen, it would likely lead to more urban sprawl as companies decide to set up along non-toll corridors.

The main issue with traffic jams is the lack of planning and vision.

Ottawa's traffic issues could be solved with a couple of projects, most of which are long overdue
1) Twin Airport Parkway and open up south end development, improve Bronson/417 access


Hell no. That will make a bad situation a little better and then much worse and you'd end up with even more cars and cancer-causing pollution!

2) Extend Nicholas to Riverside, build Alta Vista Parkway to Conroy

This will just be another conduit for even more cars to choke downtown. So this gets another hell no from me. Use that route as a mass transit corridor instead.

3) Build inter-provincial bridge at Kettle Island, grade separate Aviation parkway and improve 417/174/Aviation interchange


I think the bridge is a reasonable idea but none of the other ideas. We don't need anymore freeways in this city. Out of curiosity, when you say "improve the 417/174 interchange, do you mean add more asphalt? I see no improvement there. That would again make a bad situation worse.

4) 4 full lanes along entire 417 corridor in Ottawa (planned to begin in 2012)

Ha! Not this again. Please tell me you're kidding because you'd have to be to suggest this! Most planners I talk to these days think this idea is ludicrous!

3) Add lane to 174 to Orleans, extend 174 to Rockland beyond Trim using new alignment south of Cumberland.

These ideas have been discussed and officially dismissed. The only people who want it are those who will live at the end. No one who lives along the 174 want to live near its polluting emissions.

Current 174 should not be twinned beyond Trim.

This is the only idea I think we totally agree on.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2011, 10:36 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
What is more disheartening is that the mess on Innes was pretty much all built in the last 5-10 years. If it had happened in the 70s and 80s, I would understand more. But in the 2000s you would think planners and politicians would be a bit more enlightened and progressive and not allow this without putting up at least some type of resistance.
This is Ottawa, where we officially-plan one thing and then do the exact opposite, and have been doing so for forty years.

It's never going to change. Ottawans are quite happy uglifying and suburbanizing their own city into bland grey oblivion. They think it's beautiful. They love every stupid urban-planning experiment that has been inflicted on this town, the guinea pig of Canadian planning, from busways to pedmalls to Green Belts to ripping out the rail system. The only one that's ever been tried and rejected was the Rideau bus mall. Every thing else is just great, great, good old beautiful Ottawa, lots of green space and open space and public space and ceremonial space and strip malls. Beautiful. Just beautiful.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2011, 1:14 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,872
I like that we reject building decent transit to the south end but when the only other alternative, road building is suggested, it is also rejected. You can't have it both ways. I guess the southend is transportation corridor burial ground. We have it all, we plan it all, but we build nothing.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2011, 5:04 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I like that we reject building decent transit to the south end but when the only other alternative, road building is suggested, it is also rejected. You can't have it both ways. I guess the southend is transportation corridor burial ground. We have it all, we plan it all, but we build nothing.
Welcome to Ottawa. Whatever it is, we are against it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2011, 12:47 PM
McC's Avatar
McC McC is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,057
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
I like that we reject building decent transit to the south end but when the only other alternative, road building is suggested, it is also rejected. You can't have it both ways. I guess the southend is transportation corridor burial ground. We have it all, we plan it all, but we build nothing.
twinning Limebank Rd is a pretty huge roadbuilding project for the deep south end that's been going full steam ahead NSLRT-or-no
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2011, 3:16 PM
Kitchissippi's Avatar
Kitchissippi Kitchissippi is offline
Busy Beaver
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,364
The widening of Conroy, Prince of Wales and Woodroffe are also all for the benefit of the south end. In fact, aside from Innes (and the recent western Queensway widening), very little widening has been done on east-west arterials recently.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2011, 7:22 PM
DubberDom DubberDom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 201
Andrew Coyne's article demonstrates that Canadian cities have some of the worst commuting times in the entire World, yet these same Canadian cities spend less on, and build fewer roads per capita... coincidence??
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2011, 8:50 PM
DarkArconio DarkArconio is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 182
And that's the thing, cities could build much better roads and public transit if they either charged you more taxes, or charged people based on road use and traffic. That money could be used to cut taxes and reinvest into better infrastructure, while encouraging people to live more urban lifestyles.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted May 12, 2011, 5:16 PM
ThePlanner ThePlanner is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 12
A map that appeared in this thread several months ago is featured in Spacing Ottawa this week: http://spacingottawa.ca/2011/05/09/d...s-transit-map/.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 2:23 PM
Sven Casselman's Avatar
Sven Casselman Sven Casselman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ottawa South
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubberDom View Post
I think the opposite would happen, it would likely lead to more urban sprawl as companies decide to set up along non-toll corridors.

The main issue with traffic jams is the lack of planning and vision.

Take Orleans as an example, the former Cumberland Municipality wanted to create an urban centre (Centrum) next to Place D'Orleans where you would have all retail, government and higher density development attached to public transit and a highway. When I was a kid growing up in Orleans, everything happened in the Place D'Orleans/Centrum area, and all buses lead to there. Today, Place and Centrum is a ghost town, no more theater, heck, even East Side's will be closing down... everything has been move to Big-Box drive up to the store Innes road, and the congestion is unbearable. There is to pedestrian or really effective public transit access along the 6 km stretch of retail hell they created.

Ottawa's traffic issues could be solved with a couple of projects, most of which are long overdue
1) Twin Airport Parkway and open up south end development, improve Bronson/417 access
2) Extend Nicholas to Riverside, build Alta Vista Parkway to Conroy
3) Build inter-provincial bridge at Kettle Island, grade separate Aviation parkway and improve 417/174/Aviation interchange
4) 4 full lanes along entire 417 corridor in Ottawa (planned to begin in 2012)
3) Add lane to 174 to Orleans, extend 174 to Rockland beyond Trim using new alignment south of Cumberland. Current 174 should not be twinned beyond Trim.

God I friggin excited to hear about 4 full lanes...I am sick of being stuck in 2 hours of traffic going from Orleans to Centertown every day. Makes me almost want to start using public transportation.....almost...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2012, 6:51 PM
imdec123 imdec123 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1
LRT in Aylmer

I guess you're aware that having an LRT in Gatineau/Aylmer is out of the question... Our mayor decided to go with the rapibus instead of using the existing rails for an LRT. Bad choice but what can we do when we have an incompetent mayor like we have. Maybe in 20 years we will have one when they see how well it is in Ottawa... We're always 20 years behind the technology and it will never change...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2012, 8:29 PM
KHOOLE KHOOLE is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 281
Streamless transit system

At the NCC 2067 public forum in Ottawa last year, George Hazel, an urbanist from Scotland, said that the transit system in our region should be integrated and streamless, just like in London, England where there are many owners but just one system (he said!).

OC’s Transitway and O-train and Gatineau’s Rapibus should be integrated together as one functioning unit with common fares and schedules. Perhaps the NCC and some private business interests should also go into a P3 partnership with them that should maximize use our roads and infrastructures as well as saving on management and resources.

That would mean to finally make use of the Prince of Wales across the Ottawa River that is presently just rusting away. If ever there is a goal that the NCC should have for 2067, it should be to facilitate transit throughout the entire national capital region.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2012, 9:18 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by imdec123 View Post
I guess you're aware that having an LRT in Gatineau/Aylmer is out of the question... Our mayor decided to go with the rapibus instead of using the existing rails for an LRT. Bad choice but what can we do when we have an incompetent mayor like we have. Maybe in 20 years we will have one when they see how well it is in Ottawa... We're always 20 years behind the technology and it will never change...
20 years behind the technology would be a step up! I wish Ottawa and Gatineau were only 20 years behind!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2012, 8:44 PM
Aylmer's Avatar
Aylmer Aylmer is offline
Still optimistic
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Montreal (C-D-N) / Ottawa (Aylmer)
Posts: 5,383
Sorry to resurrect a year-old thread, but I think this fits:

*click to enlarge*



Quote:
Line – Red: Mixed with Traffic (with signal priority), Blue: Right-of-Way, Orange: Mixed with pedestrian traffic

Stations – Green: Park-and-Ride, Bold: Interior shelter or station (heated, cooled)

Coloured circles - 500 metre radius around the stations.


I explain the whole thing on my blog, OnUrbanism.Wordpress.com, but here's the outline:



Quote:
This is my proposition for a tramway line from Aylmer to Ottawa. There are five elements in particular I’d like to explain:

The Tracks and the Trains
The Station types
The RoW
The Bank st. Bridge



1. The Tracks and the Trains

Installing Tramway tracks has traditionally been a costly business – you have to first dig up the entire street, displace the sewers and pipes and wires, place a foundation, put the long rails on and then repave the street. However, a new type of tramway tracks, LR55, by integrating just the grooved part of the rail into concrete foundations which can be laid in the pavement of the street, removes the need to displace underground utilities which eliminates the need to dig up the street to save a lot of money, time and grief. At an installation rate of about 200 m per day (16h), the entire 16 km of track could be laid in three months, whereas traditional track-laying techniques would require more than a year and a half. That’s a lot of labour costs saved and much less disruption for the businesses along the affected streets.


A comparison: Whereas the LR55 track only keeps the rail that the train will run on, traditional tramway tracks have the whole rail which requires foundations under it to displace utilities and requiring to dig up the entire street instead of just the pavement.

The model of train is a detail to me, but one thing is important – low floor trams. Not only do they provide better accessibility for people with strollers or restricted mobility, but it just looks a hell’a’va lot better on a street when you don’t see the entire propulsion system of the train and it makes stations a lot easier to build when the only have to be 25cm from the ground.

2. The Station Types

As far as tram/LRT stations go, there are two big categories: at-grade and grade-separated. In my proposal, all but the Maison du Citoyen stations would be at-grade. The previously mentioned stop would be on the beginning of the bridge and would be placed about a storey above Laurier. But I digress.

The at-grade category has three types: centre platform, side platform or ‘other’. The centre platform stations have the benefit of being smaller and cheaper as well as being an efficient type for stations that have an almost uni-directional flow (like the Cormier or Des Allumettières stations). However, they’re ill-advised for busy stations in busy areas since you often need to have people cross the tracks to get to the centre platform which leads to a risk of someone being in the path of a train when there’s a lot going on (don’t worry though – when coming in to a station, trains are never going fast enough to seriously injure). I’d recommend centre-platform stations for the ROW stations that don’t have large numbers of people getting on or off like at UQO.

Side-platform stations are handy on the street since the stations can be permeable (people can pass through like a bus stop on a sidewalk) and therefore take up less dedicated space. It can also handle more people getting on and off quickly if the sidewalks are wide (like on Sparks st or Rideau). However, you need to put infrastructure (shelters, maps, benches…) on both sides, which costs a bit more. I’d recommend side-platform stations for the busiest stops as well as the stops in shared traffic areas like Downtown or in Aylmer.

Some features that a successful system would require in the stations are maps, ‘Next Train’ screens, Shelters designed with the surroundings for passive heating and cooling in addition to closed and heated/cooled shelters at some of the stops and lots of places to sit.

3. The RoW

A lot of the proposed route is RoW (i.e separate), not because I don’t want the trams to interfere with traffic, but I don’t want traffic to interfere with the trams. in the shared traffic areas, there’s relatively little vehicular traffic, so the tram can comfortably run. But the root cause of traffic is a too great number of vehicles, and not even prioritized signals could guarantee the trams a comfortable ride on Chemin d’Aylmer. That’s also why I don’t want to run the line along Alexandre-Taché: not only is there too much traffic, but there’s too little space for ROW, let alone stations. Instead, I’d want it to run along the former Aylmer railway from Val-Tétreau to Terraces de la Chaudière (much of that railroad still exists) behind the Université de Québec en Outaouais (UQO). The other ROW area, on Des Allumettières is ROW just because there’s plenty of space in the median. No other reason, really.

The ROW I propose along Chemin d’Aylmer would take up two lanes of traffic (leaving enough space for a Bike/Pedestrian multi-usage path (MUP) along the line). Now I know that many people might be scratching their heads wondering how on earth removing lanes of traffic can possibly relieve it from congestion, but, as stated in part I, the maximum capacity of a tramway track in one direction is eight times greater than that of a highway lane, let alone a lane of a road. I propose removing what are currently the Aylmer-bound traffic lanes and turning the two remaining lanes into a two-way road like Chemin d’Aylmer was for so many years. Since tramway lanes take up less space than that needed for a car lane, the extra space can be devoted to a MUP, something currently missing from the corridor and in high demand from cycling commuters tired of having to make a 3-km detour to get to work on their own two wheels. Landscaping can also play an important role in returning Chemin d’Aylmer back to the pastural image the city seems so keen on promoting with faux-stone on every neighbouring building (it ain’t pretty). The reason I recommend the Aylmer-bound lanes is because there’s a good deal of traffic from both directions towards the Champlain Bridge (southbound) and, in the spirit of wanting to assure a rapid ride and freedom from traffic, I think it’d be best to have it bypass that intersection to the north. It’s either that or an overpass or underpass, two rather expensive things that would be very restricted by the NCC which owns the adjacent lands. The only major level crossings in the path would be Wilfred-Lavigne, Vanier and Saint-Raymond, all of which could simply be fitted out with priority signals and/or crossing arms so the trains wouldn’t even need to slow down. The tracks would also have to cross Alexandre Taché at the western edge of Val-Tétreau and again to cross towards the Terraces de la Chaudière, so traffic lights or a traditional Railroad crossing there too.



A little note on the intersections: for the RoW areas, since the trains will be going faster, I’d recommend crossing arms when trams pass. For the shared areas, I think that small mounted lights would be enough such as this one in Manchester.

Driveways, and there are about 15 of them, pose a bigger challenge. They should be rerouted if possible and perhaps the MUP could double as a ‘front alleyway’ to eliminate the need for driveways to cross the tracks. If they do, they should also have small mounted warning lights installed. But alas, an issue to resolve.

4. Bank Street Bridge

The new bridge is important because it lets the line serve both downtown Hull and Ottawa directly. The only alternatives are the Prince-or-Wales RR bridge completely outside of both downtowns, the Alexandra Bridge, which would be very difficult to direct downtown because of both the NCC and the American Embassy. Alternatively, there could be a tunnel, but it would have to be very deep and, more importantly, very expensive. Plus, the bridge would definitively have to also incorporate bicycle and pedestrian paths, greatly improving the woefully deficient pedestrian integration of the two downtowns. To reduce costs and to make it more pleasant for other forms of transportation, I recommend not having any automobile traffic, though perhaps buses could pass along with the tramway.

The bridge would begin at the top of the Hôtel-de-ville street in Gatineau before it slopes down towards Laurier. The bridge is almost completely flat, passing beside the raised plaza at the Gatineau City Hall, over Laurier and would end just before Bank st. and Wellington. The Krüger factory, which is set to be demolished anyway, would have to be removed. There are two notable features of the bridge: the pedestrian accesses from Laurier and the Gatineau riverfront as well as the Maison-Du-Citoyen station: the station would serve City Hall and the Museum of Civilization (Harper can call it what he likes, but it’ll always be the Museum of Civilization to me!) and would be located on the bridge just after the Laurier overpass towards the river. It would be the only elevated station on the whole line and you may as well make it special: have it covered and interior and put a big emphasis on the views of downtown which you can get from there (it’s quite breathtaking). It has to be able to accommodate a lot of people and a high frequency of trains since I see a whole network of these trams throughout Gatineau and I’d expect most lines would pass through that station at frequencies as high as a tram a minute per direction for all lines combined).

It will be an exciting design opportunity and I suspect this part could be open to international architectural competition for the best design, though the NCC will certainly have something to say about this.

I've made one or two changes to my plan since I made the map, including extending the ROW just past 'Principale' station, getting rid of the Vanier station (for now) and moving the Victor-Beaudry east about 400m.

But I digress.

In another post, I 'calculate' and compare the speed of a tram to that of a bus and a car, but I take it with a wee bit of a grain of salt since I'd imagine there's a lot more to keep in mind than speed, stops and de/acceleration. But it's a ballpark number at worst, I figure.

Quote:
I’ve got (a) little time right now, so here’s a little math (yuck) on the proposal detailed in the last post.

Speed
So, the maximum operating speed of LRT is generally about 80 km/h. I’m an optimist, so let’s roll with that.

Max speed: 80 km/h

The breaking distance and time (which by some bit of randomness is also generally the needed time and space to accelerate), according the the design guidlines of the Edmonton LRT are, respectively, 190m and 18 seconds. Because I’m really not mathamtically-minded, I’m just going to assume that, what with accelerating and decelerating, I’m just going to assume that it takes 18 extra seconds per stop than if the train chugged along at 80kph because even though it’s not going as fast, a decelerating train is still moving forward so just saying 36 seconds would be wrong.

A stop on the New York subway when it first opened was about 15 seconds and I can’t seem to find any other information, so let’s say about 15.

Time per stop: 30 seconds

So every station costs about 30 seconds. In my plan, there are 25 stations, so that makes in total about 13 minutes.

I’ve also divvied up the line into different speeds, ranging from 30-40 km/h to 80, from shared areas to ROW, which makes the entire 17 km system a 17 minutes without stops at 60 km/h on average. Add the stops to it, and it’s about 30 minutes from the very edge of Aylmer to Rideau Centre at an average of 35 km/h. You may think this seems rather slow, but it’s very much on average with full LRT systems.

System KPH

Baltimore 38
Dallas (Red Line) 33
Dallas (Blue Line) 30
Denver (Alameda-Littleton) 61
Denver (Downtown-Littleton) 41
Los Angeles (Blue Line) 38
Los Angeles (Green Line) 61
Salt Lake City 38


At 8h30 on a weekday, an STO bus will do the same trip in just under an hour (59 minutes according to the Plani-bus), or at the sluggish speed of 17 km/h, or a leisurely bike ride. However, should there be traffic (there usually is, for the reasons explored in the second post), it can take almost an hour and a half for a 17-kilometre trip, crawling along at 10 km/h, or the speed of a very brisk walk.

Cars, on their part, aren’t much better: though (according to Google Maps) the trip can be as fast as 40 km/h (22 minutes) along Des Allumettières, most trips are done at a sluggish 22 km/h (40 minutes) on a good day. Bad days can see trips over an hour (15 km/h). A tram, however, would run at the same speed at all times except when Principale and Front streets are busy (which is only during festivals, 4 days per year (Saint-Jean (3) and the Santa Claus Parade).

So here’s everything summed up:

..........................Car............................... Bus......................................Tramway
Peak.........~40 minutes (22 km/h)......~80 minutes (12 km/h)............. 30 minutes (35 km/h)
Non-Peak.....22 minutes (40 km/h)......59 minutes (17 km/h)............... 30 minutes (35 km/h)


Now doesn’t that look nice? Plus, that’s the entire line. A trip from the Galeries d’Aylmer or Vieux-Aylmer would be about 20 minutes.

That means that taking the tram would save about 2 days from the average government worker’s year (assuming 2 weeks of vacation and 5 days a week) that would have otherwise been spent in traffic. And that’s not even taking into account what can be done on a tram that can’t be done in a car: add WiFi to the cars, and tada! you’re ride is not only faster, it’s productive (if you resist the Facebook siren call…).

And, should you chose to take the car, the roads will be clearer: as we saw in Part I, trams have very high attraction rates even (maybe even especially) from automobile-drivers. And at maximum headway capacity, there could be a train leaving every 5 minutes. Assuming trains of 200 people (the normal capacity for a tram), more than 2400 people could be comfortably transported per hour, per direction. For argument’s sake, we’ll say they’d all drive otherwise and the average car ‘density’ is 5 m of lateral space for every person. That means that the tram could remove a maximum of 12 km of traffic per hour, or roughly the distance between the Galeries d’Aylmer and the Rideau Centre. Whew. But this is entirely theoretic: not all new riders will come from cars and not all automobilists will take the tram. However, it would be logical to deduce that traffic, should you need to take the road, would be much lighter.


I'd be interested in getting some feedback, since I'm half-serious about the idea, especially considering the ideas circulating in the municipal council (rant in my first post).
__________________
I've always struggled with reality. And I'm pleased to say that I won.

Last edited by Aylmer; Oct 28, 2012 at 8:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2012, 11:09 PM
KHOOLE KHOOLE is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 281
Let's think it over for a start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
Sorry to resurrect a year-old thread, but I think this fits:

*click to enlarge*







I explain the whole thing on my blog, OnUrbanism.Wordpress.com, but here's the outline:






I've made one or two changes to my plan since I made the map, including extending the ROW just past 'Principale' station, getting rid of the Vanier station (for now) and moving the Victor-Beaudry east about 400m.

But I digress.

In another post, I 'calculate' and compare the speed of a tram to that of a bus and a car, but I take it with a wee bit of a grain of salt since I'd imagine there's a lot more to keep in mind than speed, stops and de/acceleration. But it's a ballpark number at worst, I figure.





I'd be interested in getting some feedback, since I'm half-serious about the idea, especially considering the ideas circulating in the municipal council (rant in my first post).

AYLMER, I'm glad that you are bringing this up because I sincerely believe that, as I wrote on this thread on Jan 27th (BTW read that as "seamless" not "streamless"!), there is a great need to coordinate the two public transit systems together because more than 75,000+ local residents travel across the Ottawa River twice a day to go to work or go back home.

Quebec Hgy 50 from Montreal is near completion and it terminates at Montcalm St in Hull, just beside the Rapibus line which terminates, I believe, just a little bit beyond where the Train Station used to be and possibly the Prince de Galles Stn beside the U. du Québec à Gatineau (olympic-size soccer field) that you have on your map.

With an extension to Aylmer, all public transit in Gatineau will converge just there: at a spot just across the river from the O-Train Bayview Station and where the planned Ottawa LRT will be passing through.

And there is an unused and forgotten railroad bridge connecting those two converging spots directly! And politicians are talking about spending handreds of millions of dollars for a new bridge in the east end!

What gives?

How about a streetcar aka LRT line looping around between the two cities that would interface with OC Transpo and STO's Rapibus?

Using your map, such a streetcar line would loop from the Rideau Centre to Prince de Galles andto downtown Ottawa via the Prince of Wales Bridge?

Why not put Sparks Street and Queen Street to good use for such a loop line? And forget about a downtown tunnel?

A LRT from Orléans to the Rideau Centre would be more serviceable and get a lot of cars off the 417.

A LRT from Kanata to the Bayview Stn or the O-Train line via Carling Ave would also be more serviceable and get a lot of cars off the 417 from the other direction.

The O-Train could be extended to Barrhaven and the Airport and get more cars and taxis off the roads.

Instead of building a bridge in the east end where no one wants it, why not a companion bridge beside the Prince of Wales over Lemieux Island and connect the two downtowns directly instead of that big mess on King Edward?
..or doubling Chaudiere Bridge, or Portage Bridge, or Alexandra Bridge?

Why not have streetcars on the Alexandra Bridge and the Chaudiere Bridge?

Why not sell OC Transpo to private enterprise or at least interest private interprise into a public-private partnership?

Where's the NCC when you need them?
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Ontario > Ottawa-Gatineau > Transportation
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:59 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.