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  #81  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2023, 1:03 PM
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Love this proposal, but yeah, maybe after we find an alternative (on the transit front).

I imagine that's closer to the NCC current vision. if they fully close QED to cars, they're probably not going to leave it as a wide roadway. I'm sure ripping out the asphalt is a medium term goal.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2023, 1:32 PM
SkeggsEggs SkeggsEggs is offline
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I'd love to see something like that for Colonel By between Pretoria and Daly.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2023, 2:26 PM
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I'd love to see something like that for Colonel By between Pretoria and Daly.
In a perfect world I would love to see Nicholas included, but this couldn't be done until a new bridge is built. In the meantime, Colonel By could be merged with Nicholas.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2023, 2:46 PM
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Love this proposal, but yeah, maybe after we find an alternative (on the transit front).

I imagine that's closer to the NCC current vision. if they fully close QED to cars, they're probably not going to leave it as a wide roadway. I'm sure ripping out the asphalt is a medium term goal.
But we have been told that changing anything, ever, for any reason, within umpteen metres of the Rideau Canal, would cause UNESCO to delist it from World Heritage status.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2023, 3:56 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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What I hate about it is that such a nice park would border almost exclusively single-family homes. We must build that first line it up.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2023, 4:53 PM
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What if The QED was just cut up into sections, for example just a loop between Bank and Fifth and tucked closer to Lansdowne? The same could be done say with a Fourth to Third Ave loop and a Second to First Ave and so on. The only thing going straight through could be tram tracks from Carling to Elgin.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2023, 4:53 PM
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While it's a fraction of the total crowd, a good number of tickets include on-site parking, usually season ticket holders in the range of ~500ish per game. It fills the garage completely.

Those aside, the garage still needs to be accessible for residents and businesses on site during games. Dumping that traffic into site right as a game ends would not be an improvement.
I've been to the cinema when there was an event at the stadium (not Redblacks, maybe Atletico) and the security guy told me I wasn't allowed to use the parking garage. I ended up going in anyway when he was looking the other way.

It made me wonder what agreement the tenants have in terms of parking access for their customers on event days. Kinda sucks if you are paying big time rent and your customers can't even use parking they are willing to pay for.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2023, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SkeggsEggs View Post
I'd love to see something like that for Colonel By between Pretoria and Daly.
Agreed. I think shutting down Colonel By is an easier sell than QED, and that was one of Naqvi's promises when he campaigned to became Ottawa Centre MP. He hasn't even accomplished his one promise and he's already looking to move on up to become Ontario Liberal leader.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2023, 5:45 PM
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What I hate about it is that such a nice park would border almost exclusively single-family homes. We must build that first line it up.
There's a good mix of apartments and row houses too.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2023, 3:52 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
What if The QED was just cut up into sections, for example just a loop between Bank and Fifth and tucked closer to Lansdowne? The same could be done say with a Fourth to Third Ave loop and a Second to First Ave and so on. The only thing going straight through could be tram tracks from Carling to Elgin.
Can we maybe start with a bus route?
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  #91  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2023, 7:58 PM
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There's a good mix of apartments and row houses too.
Yep, there are far more apartments and multi-unit buildings along the QED north of Lansdowne than there are single family houses.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2023, 7:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
What if The QED was just cut up into sections, for example just a loop between Bank and Fifth and tucked closer to Lansdowne? The same could be done say with a Fourth to Third Ave loop and a Second to First Ave and so on. The only thing going straight through could be tram tracks from Carling to Elgin.
I really like this idea. Make it like Echo Dr. Don’t prohibit cars, but make it unappealing as a commuter route. Would work absolutely fine for active transportation.

I’ve always preferred the Colonel By tram idea, as we have duplicate auto infrastructure there and it links better to the universities while serving Lansdowne. It doesn’t serve the hospital though, except with a transfer
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  #93  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2023, 9:05 PM
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I really like this idea. Make it like Echo Dr. Don’t prohibit cars, but make it unappealing as a commuter route. Would work absolutely fine for active transportation.

I’ve always preferred the Colonel By tram idea, as we have duplicate auto infrastructure there and it links better to the universities while serving Lansdowne. It doesn’t serve the hospital though, except with a transfer
This it typical Ottawa. It's a fudge. If we want to stop commuters we can do it directly. The whole debate is a bit of a proxy war. Both sides have legitimate grievances over what has happened in this city as we have a war on cars, pedestrians and transit users but not sure this is the sword to die on. Other routes are more important both for commuters and for active users.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 2:14 AM
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
This it typical Ottawa. It's a fudge. If we want to stop commuters we can do it directly. The whole debate is a bit of a proxy war. Both sides have legitimate grievances over what has happened in this city as we have a war on cars, pedestrians and transit users but not sure this is the sword to die on. Other routes are more important both for commuters and for active users.
Not sure what’s indirect about closing QED to through traffic. Seems pretty straightforward to me - it says that the public space along the canal is for public use and public transit.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 4:38 AM
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There's a good mix of apartments and row houses too.
If your view of border is only what would touch the park sure....there are 3 apartment buildings.....1 step farther and its SFH....The proposal for the park reaks of calls for exclusivity, cause they would fight the increase in transit through the glebe to provide access just as fiercely as they fight anything higher then 4 stories....

and If the QED is closed to all vehicles, then the Glebe is going to accept that frequent transit will be run through the Glebe. Community input be damned.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 12:40 PM
Ottawacurious Ottawacurious is offline
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NCC's Queen Elizabeth Driveway active use program sparked debate. Here's where key people stand
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Mayor Mark Sutcliffe spoke in favour of curtailing active use program on the street
Ben Andrews · CBC News · Posted: Jul 22, 2023 4:00 AM

The temporary closure of about two-kilometres of road to motor vehicles has sparked a debate that highlights a clear divide among local leaders on the city's approach to active transportation.

In a CFRA radio interview last Tuesday, Mayor Mark Sutcliffe said he believes the Queen Elizabeth Driveway (QED) active transportation program should be scaled back.

Coun. Jeff Leiper responded publicly in a post on the Kitchissippi Ward Facebook page calling the mayor's stance "regressive" and his approach to advocating on the issue "inappropriate."

Two days later, Sutcliffe elaborated on his view in an open letter published in the Ottawa Citizen.

Closing the driveway to motor vehicles "inconveniences more residents than it benefits," he wrote.

Tobi Nussbaum, CEO of the National Capital Commission (NCC), which manages Ottawa's parkways, responded days later in another letter in the newspaper.

Nussbaum defended the closure, citing the City of Ottawa's official plan, which calls on the NCC to "reimagine Queen Elizabeth Driveway and Colonel By Drive to reduce the roads' importance as a commuter route in favour of pedestrian activity."

For many, the debate over the short stretch of road has served as a bellwether for how local politicians and leaders view active transportation — and approach broader questions about how and for whom the city is designed.

The active use program

The NCC is reserving both lanes of the QED between Fifth Avenue and Somerset Street for active use from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. every day from July 1 to Sept. 4.

The same stretch had been closed to vehicles on weekends and holiday Mondays from mid-May to the end of June.

Program hours will be reduced back to weekends and holiday Mondays from Sept. 9 to Oct. 9.

Active use hours may be interrupted, the NCC said, during "certain major events, such as the Escapade Music Festival and Ottawa Redblacks games."

The NCC originally began reserving a portion of the QED for pedestrians and cyclists during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, responding to calls for more public space for people to exercise while remaining physically distanced.

The popularity of the program, Nussbaum said, inspired the NCC to expand it.

In its 2021-2022 annual report, the NCC noted 95 per cent of survey participants supported continuing the program.

Traffic, transit and emergency services
In a Wednesday interview on CBC's Ottawa Morning, Sutcliffe outlined his main arguments for curtailing the active use program on the QED.

A closure of the road between Pretoria and Fifth avenues, Sutcliffe said, creates "traffic pressure" for residents in the Glebe, limits accessibility to Lansdowne Park during major events and creates barriers for emergency vehicles attempting to service the area.

Sutcliffe recognized that limiting the active use program may push more cyclists and pedestrians onto the comparatively-crowded path along the canal but, in his view, that outcome must be weighed against the benefits.

"If our emergency vehicles are not getting to their destination in a timely fashion, if congestion is building up on residential roads that were not intended to be commuter routes, then that might be the greater issue than the pathway is getting a little bit full," he said.

Also speaking on CBC's Ottawa Morning Wednesday, Leiper said he understands where Sutcliffe is coming from on the issue but still has a "disagreement of opinion."

"I feel that we need to make much more space available for active transportation for pedestrians and for cyclists than we do," he said. "Attempts to claw back the space that we have gotten are regressive."

A recent City of Ottawa staff report notes an uptick in traffic on surrounding residential streets during periods where the QED is closed to motor vehicles.

The report also described instances in July 2022 where Ottawa Fire Services faced delays responding to emergencies due to "an inability to move barricades overnight."

The NCC addressed that problem this year by restoring motor vehicle access at 8 p.m.

The report found the QED closure "introduced approximately 10-40" pedestrians and cyclists per hour, compared to when the road was open to motor vehicles.

"Results show that most pedestrians and cyclists remain comfortable using the multi-use pathway," the report said.

On the basis of that report, the city's director of traffic services, Phil Landry, said in an email that the active use program affected nearby traffic, transit and emergency services.

"The City recommended the NCC study alternative options for its active transportation efforts and will continue to work with them to mitigate any ongoing traffic impacts from the closure of the Queen Elizabeth Driveway," he wrote.

For its part, Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group has previously opposed the closure of QED, citing concerns about access to Lansdowne Park.

June Creelman, vice-president of the Glebe Community Association, said she has witnessed the displaced traffic first-hand.

On the occasional day of bad traffic, she said, drivers who are diverted off the parkway and onto residential streets may become confused or frustrated and make rash decisions behind the wheel.

But like many in the area, she said, her view on the active use program isn't black and white.

"I actually go up there almost every day," she said. "I often bike downtown, so I think it is a value, and I see quite a few people out there and enjoying it."

The NCC reported 126,200 active use visits were made to the QED in 2022.

Creelman said she supports active transportation on the QED, but added she believes the program could use some "fine-tuning or rethinking" to manage traffic and ensure it works better for everyone.

What is the purpose of the parkways
?
NCC parkways were never intended as commuter corridors, wrote Nussbaum in his open letter in the Citizen.

Instead, he wrote, public organizations must "think creatively, differently, and meaningfully" about how to reduce the city's carbon footprint.

Some grassroots organizations have taken on that thinking for themselves.

Parkways for People, a group that advocates for a new approach to managing the city's parkways, has floated ideas in the past, including a vision of the QED between Pretoria and Fifth avenues as a natural urban park.

The group previously told CBC it would like to see the NCC's active use program extended all the way to Preston Street next year.

Dave Robertson, vice-president of cycling advocacy group Bike Ottawa, said the city has some pathways for cyclists but few quality active transportation links.

He said pathways along the canal that are an alternative to the QED for pedestrians and cyclists are narrow and overcrowded.

"They're very old. We need more space to move more people," he said. "That's what the city's plan is, is to make that shift away from cars to active transportation."

Robertson said Bike Ottawa would like to see the QED "turned over to people" — and closed to motor vehicles — on a permanent basis.

He said arguments about emergency vehicle access and local traffic effects are "fallacies." For example, he said, many active transportation pathways in other cities can easily accommodate emergency responders.

"What the mayor is talking about just doesn't jive with the declared climate emergency," he said.
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  #97  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 1:18 PM
Ottawacurious Ottawacurious is offline
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[B]

Nussbaum defended the closure, citing the City of Ottawa's official plan, which calls on the NCC to "reimagine Queen Elizabeth Driveway and Colonel By Drive to reduce the roads' importance as a commuter route in favour of pedestrian activity."

The popularity of the program, Nussbaum said, inspired the NCC to expand it.

In its 2021-2022 annual report, the NCC noted 95 per cent of survey participants supported continuing the program.

A recent City of Ottawa staff report notes an uptick in traffic on surrounding residential streets during periods where the QED is closed to motor vehicles.

The report also described instances in July 2022 where Ottawa Fire Services faced delays responding to emergencies due to "an inability to move barricades overnight."

The NCC addressed that problem this year by restoring motor vehicle access at 8 p.m.

The report found the QED closure "introduced approximately 10-40" pedestrians and cyclists per hour, compared to when the road was open to motor vehicles.

"Results show that most pedestrians and cyclists remain comfortable using the multi-use pathway," the report said.

The NCC reported 126,200 active use visits were made to the QED in 2022.

He said arguments about emergency vehicle access and local traffic effects are "fallacies." For example, he said, many active transportation pathways in other cities can easily accommodate emergency responders.
95% of users supported the program. *shocker*

10-40 cyclists per hour....compared to how many cars normally? Seems a very low number. Similar, 126 000 total also feels like it's not heavily used. Rideau mall claims 20 million visitors per year. Obviously not the same but I would have thought at least 5x that number of users for an entire summer of use.

Allowing emergency vehicles on pathways isn't something I considered before. Makes sense since they already have pickups collecting garbage. Maybe we can also then add lightweight mini e-bus or wheeled trams like they have at massive resorts and the Disney's of the world.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 2:45 PM
DarthVader_1961 DarthVader_1961 is offline
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Is the active use program year round?
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  #99  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 3:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Williamoforange View Post
If your view of border is only what would touch the park sure....there are 3 apartment buildings.....1 step farther and its SFH....The proposal for the park reaks of calls for exclusivity, cause they would fight the increase in transit through the glebe to provide access just as fiercely as they fight anything higher then 4 stories....

and If the QED is closed to all vehicles, then the Glebe is going to accept that frequent transit will be run through the Glebe. Community input be damned.
I know you have this idea that the Glebe is uniquely NIMBY (much more so than the vast swaths of single family homes radiating in every direction from the Glebe, which are no doubt full of open-minded people welcoming of intensification in their neighbourhoods), but your idea that the Glebe would fight transit improvements is completely out to lunch. The neighbourhood has repeatedly and consistently asked for transit improvements for decades. The opposition to transit improvements has typically come from suburban commuters and businesses who fight any move to repurpose a traffic lane or parking.

As for their being 3 apartment buildings and a bunch of SFHs, I’d invite you to take another look at the actual composition of the streets between the canal and Bank.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2023, 5:11 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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For the half of that proposed park that is West of Bank, it's exclusively SFH. The rest, it's 50-50.
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