SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[Will O' Wisp]

Originally Posted by Streamliner

I just saw this on Twitter and came here to see if anyone had additional info. I don't have any additional information, but it's pretty far south of the Miramar flight paths (which tend to veer north toward Sorrento Valley). I imagine a huge outcry from neighbors, which are mostly low-rise apartments/condos. This would be a huge project, and I hope to see it push through unscathed. We need more of these in UTC.

Miramar already has massive buffer zones so from a technical perspective it won't be much of a problem. What's harder to say is how the Marines will view the project, if they throw their weight around they could potentially make it an issue.

MCAS Miramar airspace diagram

MCAS Miramar Accident Potential Zones

[mello]

I toured 525 Olive the other day. Amazing building and views. Better be for $6200 2 bedrooms. Anyway while looking at the view to the North in a 19th floor unit the leasing agent said Greystar is going to do another building maybe a bit taller than 525 Olive at 6th and Quince where the Donna Jean and Evolution restaurants are. I asked if it was a go and he said Greystar doesn't mess around and it will break ground soon.

He then said 6th and Upas which is already being demolished and digging starting will be 15 to 17 floors

So some more great height coming to that strip. I'm surprised we haven't heard about the big tower at 6th and Quince.

[Andy-4-SD]

Originally Posted by mello

I toured 525 Olive the other day. Amazing building and views. Better be for $6200 2 bedrooms. Anyway while looking at the view to the North in a 19th floor unit the leasing agent said Greystar is going to do another building maybe a bit taller than 525 Olive at 6th and Quince where the Donna Jean and Evolution restaurants are. I asked if it was a go and he said Greystar doesn't mess around and it will break ground soon.

He then said 6th and Upas which is already being demolished and digging starting will be 15 to 17 floors

So some more great height coming to that strip. I'm surprised we haven't heard about the big tower at 6th and Quince.

Also got project at 1st and beech (22 stories) that should break ground soon.

[Streamliner]

The Union-Tribune just posted a rendering of the proposed Topgolf driving range next to Harbor Island/SAN.



Topgolf, Port of San Diego near agreement on lease terms for flagship venue on San Diego Bay
JENNIFER VAN GROVE
DEC. 1, 2023
Link to article

Topgolf International and the Port of San Diego are close to reaching an agreement on preliminary lease terms for a 9.5-acre site on East Harbor Island, opposite San Diego’s airport, where the entertainment company is looking to a build a flagship, driving-range venue with panoramic views of the bay and downtown.

Tuesday, Port of San Diego Commissioners will vote on whether to sign a non-binding term sheet with Topgolf, as recommended by the agency’s staff.

The document, as drafted, calls for a 40-year lease term — a 20-year base term with four, five-year options to extend — and sets the entertainment venue’s initial minimum annual rent at $1.53 million. If approved by commissioners, the term sheet would help the agency draft a more comprehensive lease agreement for consideration by the board in the second half of 2024.

Construction of the project, which requires a Port Master Plan Amendment and Coastal Development Permit, is expected to start in 2025, a spokesperson for the agency said.

As currently proposed, the project calls for a 70,700-square-foot, three-level facility with 102 hitting bays that open up to a 4.5-acre outfield and 10 underground golf targets. The entertainment venue would take over nearly 10 acres on the basin side of East Harbor Island along North Harbor Drive just west of Liberator Way. It would feature multiple restaurant and bar areas, outdoor decks, event space and 293 surface parking spaces, according to project documents. The driving range would be surrounded by a polyester barrier netting system suspended on poles up to 170 feet in height.

Before seeing the renders I was initially on board with the project, but now I'm not so sure. It feels very suburban, with all the surface parking. Views of the waterfront/skyline would be blocked by the netting somewhat, so views from the facility would be hard to see, which defeats the purpose of the location in my opinion.

I like the idea of entertainment/recreation activities at the waterfront, and I know it would be popular amongst the convention/business crowd. But it kind of walls off the bay in a way I'm not a fan of.

[Derek]

That is absolutely disgusting.

[SamFlood]

Nets aren't walls and it it'll bring more people to the bay. Harbor Island is dead anyway. Your looking at it from a birds eye view. Those nets don't block a view. No one driving on Harbor can see the water. Harbor dr is non stop airport traffic anyway.

[Will O' Wisp]

Originally Posted by Streamliner

Before seeing the renders I was initially on board with the project, but now I'm not so sure. It feels very suburban, with all the surface parking. Views of the waterfront/skyline would be blocked by the netting somewhat, so views from the facility would be hard to see, which defeats the purpose of the location in my opinion.

I like the idea of entertainment/recreation activities at the waterfront, and I know it would be popular amongst the convention/business crowd. But it kind of walls off the bay in a way I'm not a fan of.

While I agree with you, there were a few aspects that ended up swaying the Port into agreeing to this after some initial hesitation. Topgolf really pulled out all the stops to get to yes.

Here's their original proposal:



So, two midrise hotels plus the Topgolf facility. When the Port showed some hesitation, Topgolf agreed to move the facility back (so that there would be midrise hotels on either side of it), and then agreed to lease terms that would have them demolish their facility and replace it with a hotel after 30 years.

Plus they agreed to pay something like $2 million a year in rent, which will pretty much pay for that fancy park on the east side of Liberator Way.

[SDfan]

That looks gross, but I know the port needs new revenue sources, so I get it.

Anyone tracking NAVWAR redevelopment? I believe their preferred proposal will be announced this month or soon.

Also, any fun projects folks are aware of or tracking? I found this interesting fantasy project in National City the other day:

https://theregistrysocal.com/1-44-ac...sted-for-19mm/

[negentropic behavior]

Looks like the SDSU Stadium in Mission Valley is finally getting some neighbors.
https://newscenter.sdsu.edu/sdsu_new...aspx?sid=79387

[mello]

It has been years since the vote on the SDSU expansion happened and they haven't finished all those parks they promised or built anything but the stadium. Meanwhile UCSD is exploding with cranes and towers looking like a whole new city is being built.... SDSU is a joke.

2024 is almost here and ground hasn't been broken on Manchesters Fairmount Hotel in the bay, anyone heard what the deal is with this project?

[Will O' Wisp]

Originally Posted by mello

It has been years since the vote on the SDSU expansion happened and they haven't finished all those parks they promised or built anything but the stadium. Meanwhile UCSD is exploding with cranes and towers looking like a whole new city is being built.... SDSU is a joke.

2024 is almost here and ground hasn't been broken on Manchesters Fairmount Hotel in the bay, anyone heard what the deal is with this project?

I heard Doug Manchester lost a ton of money during COVID, had to sell off most of Pacific Gateway just to make up part of his losses. So he isn't going to be putting in very much cash himself, needs others to provide funding like Fairmount.

But the tourism market is still a bit shaky in SD, plus higher interest rates, means people aren't quite as eager to start groundbreaking new hotels.

Still moving forward I think, just a bit slow.

[aekrid]

Originally Posted by mello

It has been years since the vote on the SDSU expansion happened and they haven't finished all those parks they promised.

The River park is mostly complete and they just had their soft opening on Saturday (12/9). River Park at SDSU Mission Valley Ready for Public After Soft Opening

[mello]

I wonder how Manchester managed to lose money during Covid most wealthy people did great with all the trillions the Fed pumped in to the system that boosted their stock and property portfolios? Also can you elaborate on the tourism market being shaky? I thought San Diego is kind the go to West Coast destination for many Americans as the image of LA and Bay Area is terrible with crime, homeless, traffic, dirty etc.

Biotech has been booming and now with Israel and Ukraine the War Machine economy is surely humming on all cylinders in SD County so business travel should be solid.

[Will O' Wisp]

Originally Posted by mello

I wonder how Manchester managed to lose money during Covid most wealthy people did great with all the trillions the Fed pumped in to the system that boosted their stock and property portfolios?

Honestly couldn't tell you, that's just what I've heard.

Originally Posted by mello

Also can you elaborate on the tourism market being shaky? I thought San Diego is kind the go to West Coast destination for many Americans as the image of LA and Bay Area is terrible with crime, homeless, traffic, dirty etc.

Biotech has been booming and now with Israel and Ukraine the War Machine economy is surely humming on all cylinders in SD County so business travel should be solid.

So we're in a bit of a weird area at the moment. San Diego is a major tourist hotspot. In fact, we recently posted our best year ever in terms of tourist $$$ spent.

But hotel occupancy has remained a bit below pre-pandemic levels. One of the unique things about the San Diego tourist market is that it's much more local than many other areas. San Diego pulls in a great number of people from LA, Las Vegas, and Phoenix, people who drive in for a weekend stay before going home.

That was a lifesaver during COVID, with air travel largely shut down San Diego was one of the only places in the country still hosting any sort of tourism, and its lead to a much more rapid recovery overall. But that masks somewhat more difficult situation international travelers and people from the East Coast, who really support the weekday hotel market. This is true pretty much everywhere in CA rn atm.

But, good news is this has been a very good year and we've all but recovered. It's just taking a bit of time, and with the overall difficult situation with financing atm it hasn't been encouraging anyone to beat down the doors for new hotel developments.

[DTSDguy]

I drove by yesterday and noticed that they have installed the green construction fencing around the site and 7th and Market and that some trucks were onsite. Looks like this one is about to start.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...d-ritz-carlton

[brg654]

Originally Posted by DTSDguy

I drove by yesterday and noticed that they have installed the green construction fencing around the site and 7th and Market and that some trucks were onsite. Looks like this one is about to start.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...d-ritz-carlton

this is the parking lot next to market street animal hospital, right? the lot had 2 free spaces available for vet patients. i guess i'll have to pay for parking when going to the vet now.

[JSW]

Originally Posted by brg654

this is the parking lot next to market street animal hospital, right? the lot had 2 free spaces available for vet patients. i guess i'll have to pay for parking when going to the vet now.

Well, that settles it. We've got to get this shut down

[HurricaneHugo]

San Diego’s Midway District can get taller after judge rejects latest lawsuit

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...-final-lawsuit


Midway Rising’s sports arena project evolves with start of environmental review
process
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...review-process

[aekrid]

Well this is interesting, tower component to Campus at Horton is incoming.

Stockdale Adds Residential to Campus at Horton MXU

Stockdale Capital Partners said Monday it will break ground on a 40-story, 518-unit apartment tower at its Campus at Horton mixed-use development in 2025. A second 40-story apartment tower with 332 units will be built on G Street in the future. Together, the two towers will add a total of 850 housing units in San Diego.

https://www.connectcre.com/stories/s...at-horton-mxu/

[Streamliner]

Originally Posted by aekrid

Well this is interesting, tower component to Campus at Horton is incoming.

Stockdale Adds Residential to Campus at Horton MXU


https://www.connectcre.com/stories/s...at-horton-mxu/

I guess I hadn't been following the Horton project because I didn't realize adding residential towers was on the table. But it's a great idea. That project was always a bit too midrise for me to get too excited about. It definitely needs a couple towers