PHILADELPHIA | W Hotel & Element by Westin | 617 FT | 51 FLOORS

[Whu215]

I'm in the orange Hawaiian shirt today

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Whu215

I'm in the orange Hawaiian shirt today

As long as you're here, will the exterior structure remain concrete, and not switch to steel, once it gets above grade?

[Baconboy007]

Originally Posted by isThatAHippo

It's called The American Baptist Publication Society building; currently home to a charter school.

My friend used to teach there. I get the impression it wasn't the nicest school to work at.

[Whu215]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

As long as you're here, will the exterior structure remain concrete, and not switch to steel, once it gets above grade?

Full concrete poured in place. No structural steel, this will be the highest poured in place building in Philly history

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Whu215

Full concrete poured in place. No structural steel, this will be the highest poured in place building in Philly history

Thanks! And this also was the largest amount of concrete ever used in Philly in a mat foundation, right?

[1487]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

As long as you're here, will the exterior structure remain concrete, and not switch to steel, once it gets above grade?

most hotels and residential towers aren't all steel. East Market and Vue 32 are using steel and pre-cast concrete planks for the floors.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by 1487

most hotels and residential towers aren't all steel. East Market and Vue 32 are using steel and pre-cast concrete planks for the floors.

I know. That's why I asked our man on the job, Whu215, the way I did--to confirm what I had assumed based on this NOT being an office tower. And as he indicated, towers this tall built entirely of poured-in-pace concrete are not exactly commonplace in Philly.

Also, concrete floors in a steel-framed tower aren't unusual--they're virtually always used. Except usually poured in place and not precast.

[Parkway]

Originally Posted by 1487

most hotels and residential towers aren't all steel. East Market and Vue 32 are using steel and pre-cast concrete planks for the floors.

The mid-rise portion of Morgan Hall at Temple used the same construction method.

[rduffy5]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

I know. That's why I asked our man on the job, Whu215, the way I did--to confirm what I had assumed based on this NOT being an office tower. And as he indicated, towers this tall built entirely of poured-in-pace concrete are not exactly commonplace in Philly.

Also, concrete floors in a steel-framed tower aren't unusual--they're virtually always used. Except usually poured in place and not precast.

Why are steel-framed towers not used for residential/hotels? It seems like this concrete pour method is far slower than steel framing.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by rduffy5

Why are steel-framed towers not used for residential/hotels? It seems like this concrete pour method is far slower than steel framing.

Apparently, steel framing is more cost-efficient for buildings with higher ceilings, such as those found in office buildings, while poured concrete is more cost-efficient for residential buildings and their lower ceiling heights.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

Apparently, steel framing is more cost-efficient for buildings with higher ceilings, such as those found in office buildings, while poured concrete is more cost-efficient for residential buildings and their lower ceiling heights.

That's the theory, but I think there's probably more to it, maybe including the clear spans that are wanted in office buildings and the amount and type of HVAC equipment needed for a office building. This is a question I've raised several times to architects and engineers and so far I haven't gotten very good answers. Steel framed buildings go up FAST. Go back and check the FMC building track, the lower steel section went up much faster then the much smaller, both in height and volume, upper section. And to some degree, time is money.
One answer I've been given is that steel buildings move a lot more then the same sized poured in place concrete building would, and that for some reason office workers don't mind that movement as much as condo/apartment/hotel users do.
Maybe our recently silent owner of this project could add his 2 cents (along with his millions!).

[acenturi]

Originally Posted by City Wide

[SIZE="3"]That's the theory, but I think there's probably more to it,

Gee what a great answer and I love the huge, obnoxious print size.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by acenturi

Gee what a great answer and I love the huge, obnoxious print size.

is this better for you, less threating

[Philly-Drew]

I always prefer reading the larger font. I guess I'm getting older and it's easier for me to read.

Anyway, I also thought that concrete buildings tend to transfer less sound between floors, which is good for those who are trying to get some sleep.

Maybe I just made that up, but it would seem to make sense.

[thisisforreal]

Nov 4th:


Nov 7th:

[summersm343]

Update from Building Philly



https://www.facebook.com/BuildingPhilly

[1487]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

I know. That's why I asked our man on the job, Whu215, the way I did--to confirm what I had assumed based on this NOT being an office tower. And as he indicated, towers this tall built entirely of poured-in-pace concrete are not exactly commonplace in Philly.

Also, concrete floors in a steel-framed tower aren't unusual--they're virtually always used. Except usually poured in place and not precast.

well that is what I was referring to. The precast planks aren't something I've seen a lot here in Philly.

[1487]

Originally Posted by City Wide

That's the theory, but I think there's probably more to it, maybe including the clear spans that are wanted in office buildings and the amount and type of HVAC equipment needed for a office building. This is a question I've raised several times to architects and engineers and so far I haven't gotten very good answers. Steel framed buildings go up FAST. Go back and check the FMC building track, the lower steel section went up much faster then the much smaller, both in height and volume, upper section. And to some degree, time is money.
One answer I've been given is that steel buildings move a lot more then the same sized poured in place concrete building would, and that for some reason office workers don't mind that movement as much as condo/apartment/hotel users do.
Maybe our recently silent owner of this project could add his 2 cents (along with his millions!).

The height of the building and the floor area are all factors. Office building usually have larger floorplates and steel is more conducive to that vs concrete buildings which would need a lot more columns to support similarly sized floors. I think cost is another issue- when steel is more affordable it becomes more of an option for non-office buildings but generally it's not. I think another issue is that poured in place buildings don't rely on materials to be shipped in from a plant. The Comcast steel is from Alabama so you can imagine the cost and logistical issues related to that. With concrete, you just have to get the mix trucked in from a local plant and keep going upwards.

[Whu215]

Poured in place buildings when floors become typical move faster than steel beam buildings.

Once typical buildings usually start a new floor every 3-4 days. That's the core, columns and deck.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by Whu215

Poured in place buildings when floors become typical move faster than steel beam buildings.

Once typical buildings usually start a new floor every 3-4 days. That's the core, columns and deck.

a poured in place, concrete core, with the usual slip form construction, seems to always move upward well ahead of the rest of the construction, regardless of what type that is.
If in comparing apples to apples in different construction methods for the structural elements, one can use the point in time when a floor is ready for the trades to start working on other components, such as HVAC, wiring, fire safety, glazing, etc. and from what I've heard and observed is that steel with poured in place floors, is faster.
But it doesn't ever seem like its that simple; there are so many different factors to consider, the type of curtain wall might very well effect the type of floor system used. I always thought that the choices in construction methods would have been documented by now and one could just pull a book off the shelf and be told which path to follow. But from what I hear that's not at all the case. The trouble is that there doesn't seem to be any neatly fixed answers as to why and when to build one way and when to build another way, and what the pluses and minuses are.