GO/VIA Transit

[Innsertnamehere]

Metrolinx has a fleet of over 1,000 cab cars right now, many of which are practically brand new. They might not know exact service plans but they know they aren’t going to throw out most of their existing fleet. Majority of services will continue with cab cars as it is now, some pulled by electric locomotives and some by diesel.

Hamilton may not see huge time travel savings from electrification as a result, but it will likely see things like off peak express trains and possible “super express” trains like they operate on the summer Niagara weekend service more regularly which will still result in time savings overall.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Metrolinx has a fleet of over 1,000 cab cars right now,

Can you provide a reference to confirm that? According to this site, as of 2019 GO Transit had only 139 cab coaches. Now they do also have 736 (non-cab) rail coaches for a combined total of 875 rail coaches (both can and non-cab) plus 90 locomotives. Maybe you were confusing their entire rail fleet with cab cars, but even then it is a bit shy of 1000.

I suspect the newer existing equipment will be used for the longer distance, express trains (which doesn’t need to stop as often) and use EMUs for the shorter distance commuter trains. It will likely take a decade to complete the project, and by then, even the newest equipment will be ready for its mid-life refresh.

Also, for trains that only need to travel a relatively short distance beyond the electrified track, batteries could be used for the last bit (there would be plenty of electrified track to recharge them again).

[Innsertnamehere]

As of 2019 - they’ve taken delivery of more and I was being a bit facetious. The point isn’t the exact number of cars they have but rather that they own a very large number and won’t be scrapping them all in a few years. Metrolinx awarded a full rebuild of several of them just a few months ago.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

As of 2019 - they’ve taken delivery of more and I was being a bit facetious. The point isn’t the exact number of cars they have but rather that they own a very large number and won’t be scrapping them all in a few years. Metrolinx awarded a full rebuild of several of them just a few months ago.

Can you provide a reference? I can’t imagine they more than quintupled their cab cars during the pandemic. And what would be the point if they didn’t also similarly increase their number of locomotives? You certainly didn’t come across as being facetious, it came across as you stating something without double checking your facts, and can’t admit that you made a mistake.

Besides, You are forgetting that none of their existing equipment will be new by the time the project is complete. They haven’t even completed the RFQ, then there will be time to prepare for construction. Even once construction starts, it will be slow, as GO won’t want to suspend weekday service on their major routes (they might allow occasional weekend closures), so the infrastructure work will need to be coordinated with the train schedule.

[Innsertnamehere]

Ok I admit, I was simply recalling that they had around 1,000 and hadn’t double checked the number.

And yes, none of them will be brand new in 5-6 years, but GO still owns and operates it’s 40+ year old original double level cars from the 1970’s. these cars have long, long lives.

And I’m not inventing the fact that they are keeping them either. The total fleet of double deckers might shrink a bit as they retire the oldest cars, but Metrolinx has stated multiple times that most of the existing fleet is staying and will simply be shifted around to different services.

[ScreamingViking]

The issue may be that you wrote "cab car" (the control cabs with seating at the opposite end from the locomotive) vs. regular bi-level passenger coaches.

Including both, your number is quite close. 949 according to this article from March referenced in the Wikipedia page.
https://www.railwaygazette.com/passe.../35761.article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GO_Transit_fleet

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Ok I admit, I was simply recalling that they had around 1,000 and hadn’t double checked the number.

And yes, none of them will be brand new in 5-6 years, but GO still owns and operates it’s 40+ year old original double level cars from the 1970’s. these cars have long, long lives.

And I’m not inventing the fact that they are keeping them either. The total fleet of double deckers might shrink a bit as they retire the oldest cars, but Metrolinx has stated multiple times that most of the existing fleet is staying and will simply be shifted around to different services.

[SteelTown]

GO Expansion program takes next step in procurement journey

https://blog.metrolinx.com/2022/02/2...ement-journey/

Today (Feb. 23), Metrolinx and Infrastructure Ontario (IO) are pleased to announce that following a rigorous evaluation process, ONxpress Transportation Partners was identified as the first negotiations proponent and EnTransit was identified as the second negotiations proponent.

Metrolinx and IO are entering into the start of the negotiations stage with ONxpress Transportation Partners to confirm the technical and financial details proposed in their bid.

If the negotiations process with the proponents reaches a successful outcome in the coming weeks, the next step will be the confirmation of commercial close, at which time Metrolinx will enter into a development phase with the successful proponent.

The GO Expansion program will deliver 15 minute or better, all-day service on the core GO rail network.

That means a train turning up every 15 minutes or less in each direction at every station between Union and Burlington on the Lakeshore West Line, Union and Bramalea on the Kitchener Line, Union and Bradford on the Barrie Line, Union and Unionville on the Stouffville Line, and Union and Oshawa on Lakeshore East.

This will transform the way this region will move and will make it easier for customers to connect and get where they need to go.

[SteelTown]

Starting this week public transit users in Hamilton will get a free ride on @hsr when they connect to GO using their PRESTO card. @metrolinx is also offering youth and post-secondary students a 40% discount when they pay with PRESTO

https://twitter.com/SkellyHamilton/s...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[TheRitsman]

So Go Electrification is happening. There was mention of Hamilton and Barrie, so there's been some speculation that there may be negotiations to electrify to West Harbour which would obviously be amazing and would cut the current time by Go by like 25%.

https://youtu.be/_XOXAY3rPzk

[TheHonestMaple]

Thought it will end at Burlington Station.

[Innsertnamehere]

Electrification will end at Burlington, yes.

GO has long planned to introduce new super-express services, sort of akin to the summertime Niagara Trains, as a part of the program. These would cut travel times to Hamilton significantly, though they would indeed still be diesel.

It sounds like they are also planning to increase track speeds in many locations, which would help both the super-express diesel trains and the electric locals terminating in Burlington.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Electrification will end at Burlington, yes.

GO has long planned to introduce new super-express services, sort of akin to the summertime Niagara Trains, as a part of the program. These would cut travel times to Hamilton significantly, though they would indeed still be diesel.

It sounds like they are also planning to increase track speeds in many locations, which would help both the super-express diesel trains and the electric locals terminating in Burlington.

Seems odd that they would run two different types of trains on the same line. I thought I read somewhere that the new trains would be hybrid. That they would run electric to Burlington, then the same train would switch to diesel for the remainder of the route to Hamilton.

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

Seems odd that they would run two different types of trains on the same line. I thought I read somewhere that the new trains would be hybrid. That they would run electric to Burlington, then the same train would switch to diesel for the remainder of the route to Hamilton.

I don't think that's been decided yet.

My understanding is similar to Hamilton LRT there is a lot of "pre-engineering" done, but then a real firm comes in and makes a true engineering plan. In Metrolinx plan it originally had individual electric cars, electric locomotive, diesel locomotive, and hybrid locomotive. It's suspected this has been reduced to simply having hybrid locomotives to simplify. It also means that negotiations to electrify a bit more may not be out of the question since Metrolinx does own some rail beyond Burlington Station.

[Innsertnamehere]

they don't own much more past Burlington, the CN corridor joins just on the west side of Brant St.

It's all CN territory from there.

They may be able to get away with electrifying to Aldershot, provided they can provide separate, dedicated tracks there, but they wouldn't be able to get electrification through Bayview Junction without it conflicting with freight operations.

[Corktowner]

I wonder if maybe they're considering battery-equipped locomotives that can travel short distances without overhead catenary. It's only around 11km from Burlington to West Harbour, so that could be a good solution. It could also work for the section of the Kitchener line from Bramalea to Georgetown (~20km), which is also owned by CN. I'm not any kind of expert, but my understanding is that battery trains are starting to be rolled out commercially and will probably be widely available by the time GO expansion is in full swing.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Corktowner

I wonder if maybe they're considering battery-equipped locomotives that can travel short distances without overhead catenary. It's only around 11km from Burlington to West Harbour, so that could be a good solution. It could also work for the section of the Kitchener line from Bramalea to Georgetown (~20km), which is also owned by CN. I'm not any kind of expert, but my understanding is that battery trains are starting to be rolled out commercially and will probably be widely available by the time GO expansion is in full swing.

Battery power is certainly an option. Amtrak has ordered a few battery cars from Siemens (to be combined with new diesel locomotives) for use on their Empire Corridor (including The Maple Leaf). They are the last part of a massive order of equipment and should be delivered by the end of the decade. Since the Empire Corridor doesn’t have catenary, I don’t believe the trains will have pantographs though (but they might have third tail pickups for use in NYC’s tunnels and to charge the batteries).

[craftbeerdad]

Went back to the office for the first time in two years and two things:

1) There's no express trains (which sucks) and not sure when those go back into operation

and

2) Metrolinx hasn't reinstituted every half hour #16

Anyone know when this changes?

[Innsertnamehere]

Metrolinx had express trains last fall again, I used them a few times.

Apparently they are expecting to increase service soon again, but nobody really knows. GO is due for a schedule update on May 2, so we'll have to see if we get it back then. They only tend to release schedules a few days before service starts.

I'm not sure the 16 will ever return to 30 minute service, given that the rumours are that West Harbour GO service will be expanding to 30 minute service by EOY.

[SteelTown]

New ‘pocket track’ in Aldershot expands Hamilton GO service at West Harbour
https://www.insauga.com/new-pocket-t...umPw7bwnpZxWXg

The completion of a 200-metre “pocket track” at the Aldershot GO Stations means Hamilton’s West Harbour location will see expanded service.

Prior to the new track being installed, trains on the southernmost track at Aldershot couldn’t go any further because there was no connection to the main Lakeshore West line. Now, trains using the south track can go westbound into Hamilton.

Metrolinx says the track has been tested and is now ready for use.

The company says it is also building towards enhanced track capacity to bring service to the future Confederation GO Station.

“Over the next few years, there are plans to tie in the two stub-ended tracks currently at West Harbour GO, connecting the tracks to the main Lakeshore West Line on the east side of the station,” writes Rosie Hales-Wilson, senior communications advisor at Metrolinx. “This would eliminate the need to reverse GO Trains past the station to line up again with the main line, which adds 20 minutes to trips when travelling to and from Niagara and will facilitate service to Confederation GO and beyond.”

[Innsertnamehere]

https://twitter.com/GOExpansion/stat...001%2Fpage-127

Apparently Confederation GO will finally (!!!) start construction this summer.

Slot this one firmly in the "I'll believe it when I see it" category for me.