Why is architecture outside the US so much more cutting edge?

[Duffstuff129]

It's very simple. IN the U.S., a building only gets built if there is demand for it, financing can be obtained privately, and if it economical. In China, UAE, etc., up-and-coming countries with something to prove, governments want a tangible, easily pointed-to monument to their new success (add air quotes in UAE's case, of at least Dubai). Combined with cheap (in UAE: slave) labor, these otherwise unfeasible buildings make "sense".

However, most of these buildings are designed in the U.S., so at least we have that...

[destroycreate]

Originally Posted by Boss-ton

That one in china that has that big chunk hanging out to the side is EASILY the ugliest building in any city in the entire world. Also I cannot believe you think Dubai is more cutting edge than the US. Yes the Burj is absolutely amazing but other than that they have some of the worst examples of architecture anywhere. China definitely has a few nice ones but they also have an overwhelming amount of pieces of junk. I dont know what your smoking or whos slipping what into your drinks but your idea of cutting edge is rediculous. Tower Verre may end up being the best design in the history of mankind when it goes up well have to see, Beekman place, the new wtc, manhattan west, the comcast center in philly, devon going up in okc, plus many more.... you cant tell me those arent up there with the nicest buildings being built anywhere in the world. The comcast center in Philly proves that cutting edge doesnt have to be 4000ft tall and have a twirly spire with a light show on top to be beautiful and effective. I think were doing just fine.

I doubt you've ever been outside the US.

[llamaorama]

I'm curious what people mean by "bureaucrats/government" contributing to these building booms in Dubai and China, whereas in the US its all private investment apparently. This is not a rhetorical question or part of the debate but a legit question, because I am having trouble understanding some of the arguments without context.

[brian.odonnell20]

Originally Posted by destroycreate

I doubt you've ever been outside the US.

Then I doubt you've been to the US.

[Aleks]

that was a great contribution to the thread on your part brian. thanks for sharing.

as for the dubai and china designs, i agree, they have a lot of nice cutting edge designs. the thing that bugs me are developments and lack of human scale. china is a large beast, and they'll need that space once the population has more financial jobs. but some of the buildings are too far apart, the streets are too wide, etc. but anyways, about the designs, there's just too many too close. dubai DOES have a lot of nice designs, not matter how much you're in denial, they have amazing buildings, just some are executed poorly (cheap materials, a little less thinking that should've gone into the design, etc).

but like i said, too many in such a small area and very awkwardly placed in developments like US suburbs but with 400 footers.

now keep in mind i didn't say every design is cutting edge, but i wouldn't mind seeing some of these designs closer to home.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Aleks

that was a great contribution to the thread on your part brian. thanks for sharing.

The threadstarter is absolutely correct in his point, btw. Those of you who insist that the design of American buildings is at par with what is going up in the rest of the world (in regards to being cutting edge) are flat out in denial.

[jetsetter]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

The threadstarter is absolutely correct in his point, btw. Those of you who insist that the design of American buildings is at par with what is going up in the rest of the world (in regards to being cutting edge) are flat out in denial.

That is only true if one prefers the style of architecture that those structures outside the United States are built in. I consider modernism and its various offshoots to be incredible ugly, terrible in almost every way. And thus I find nothing desirable or superior in the examples posted. Cutting edge means nothing unless you are speaking about engineering and not architecture.

[The North One]

http://www.contemporist.com/2009/11/...ng-architects/


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=177400&page=6


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...23628&page=594

Do I even need to say anything?

[vid]

It's kind of funny that you post those since the architects who designed them are responsible for many buildings in China, including some that look just like them. The first building in that photograph was designed by the same man who designed Burj Khalifa and the similarities are pretty obvious, especially with regards to cladding.

[STR]

^It's not funny at all. We live in a globalized world, and architecture firms are amoung the most globalized. On top of that, if anything, Burj Dubai (which only has superficial similarities to Smith's Trump Tower) is an evolution of the earlier Chicago building. As for the World Trade Center tower, while I've seen many people compare it to previous SOM proposals ranging from the 1990's Trump NYSE tower, to a proposal in Philly, I've yet to see a constructed skyscraper that's similar. The basic massing has been used in century-old lighthouses, but saying that makes one a rip-off of another is being disingenuous.

[muppet]

Five of the current crop of newly finishing supertalls from China


http://bbs.home.news.cn


zorg, www.skyscrapercity.com


http://bbs.home.news.cn


http://upic.me/i/92



BarbaricManchurian, www.bohaibbs.net


http://pic.qnpic.com:83, www.0577wo.com

[The North One]

Originally Posted by vid

It's kind of funny that you post those since the architects who designed them are responsible for many buildings in China, including some that look just like them. The first building in that photograph was designed by the same man who designed Burj Khalifa and the similarities are pretty obvious, especially with regards to cladding.

exactly, I also posted aqua tower too but i guess it didn't show up.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by muppet

Five of the current crop of newly finishing supertalls from China

when i posted the photos of the skyscrapers in the U.S. it was not in a competitive way with china, I just wanted to prove the U.S. has just as much "cutting edge" architecture as anywhere else.

unless you posted those pics for a different reason.

[WilliamTheArtist]

Originally Posted by The North One

http://www.contemporist.com/2009/11/...ng-architects/


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=177400&page=6


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...23628&page=594

Do I even need to say anything?

Hows boring as hell sound? Yaaawn.

I somewhat agree with the thread starter, except I wouldn't say "cutting edge" I would say "visually interesting" and enjoyable to look at. I think a lot of the buildings in Dubai for example are visual eye candy. They are fun, whimsical and often "futuristicy" lol like something out of Star Wars. I enjoy looking at them. Freedom Tower... A glass rectangle they cut the top corners off all the way down,,, Seriously, thats cutting edge, daring, a paragon of US creativity? I like the ones behind it to the right better. Just my opinion though.

However, I would say there are some wonderful designs in the US like Aqua (definitely eye candy or something I might imagine being in some futuristic or otherworldly skyline), and even the BOK Center here in Tulsa. But the Freedom Tower or the Trump? They look out dated already, like something that could have been around for the last 30 years and nobody would give a second glance to.

[The North One]

I posted aqua!!!!!!

and how is trump tower and the new WTC boring?
What, should we put lasers and neon lights all around it like in china to amuse your mind? how about put a working carousel on top, will that please you?
I dont get it, do you want a Las Vagus attraction or a sleek, impressive, eye pleasing skyscraper like the ones I posted? not to say the rest of the world doesn't have those.

[vid]

It's the lines. They're all flat. The shape of Trump curves a bit, sure, but you don't have the jagged/flower shaped footprint of a Burj Dubai or this, the crown is pretty much flat unlike this Frostbank tower in Austin knockoff, and then there is the curved walls of this building. Of course you don't want to mix all of those, it would look really stupid.

Look at the picture below:



All of the buildings are various shapes and sizes. (As opposed to those in the US which are all the exact same shape, ha ha ) The one in the centreright has some loopy crap on top, just behind it the next tallest after what I'm assuming is a David Foster design looks like it has a sort of curved bevel to it, not a straight line. There is a dark green-blue building on the left that has a sort of rocketship thingy attached to it, and maybe a building hole, and that bridge beside it is just plain cool looking. It's like the iPod of bridges. And behind loopy crap is a building that looks like "fancy" 5 dollar speakers from a dollar store. Cool! Most are either crap or boring, but you could say that about most building in New York when seen from afar. At least the ones in New York have details to enjoy up close.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

i think Beekman is pretty


http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/p...t/IMG_9719.jpg

[vid]

As I said, "Of course you don't want to mix all of those, it would look really stupid."

[Flamesrule]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

This might seem like a stupid question, but what is the definition of cutting edge here? There's new or unusual architecture or design styles that aren't common in the US and seem exotic, and there's the legitimately futuristic buildings that use new technology and materials to be more efficient, etc.

I don't think there is a exact definition, but what the OP believes what "cutting edge" is. I think everyone has a different definition of what cutting edge is.


I always thought that cutting edge was modern,sleek, tall, and kind of a "out there" type of skyscraper.

[brian.odonnell20]

Do people forget that the US is in the second worst economic recession in its history? Yeah, I guess it would be easy to start a thread that crows about construction in developing nations, with booming economies that build hundreds of less than ten-percent occupied buildings purely out of futile speculation and international attention, and compares it to the US, which builds out of actual, tangible market demand, not to mention being currently amidst a slow, painful recovery, with close to every construction project on hold or cancelled. The US doesn't build these outlandishly designed and engineered attention getting structures because they often make little or no economic sense. It is a nation that actually cares about the return of an investment and values business, which is why our economy is bigger than the next 3 countries put together. This is also why you see much more conservative and cost efficient designs, because the US puts profit before international pissing contests that don't prove anything or make money. Would you start this thread if America's economy was booming right now as well as China's, and construction was just as prevalent? Anything to point out something bad about America i guess, even if the economic conditions are clearly unequal.

Maybe the same question for this thread should be asked in about 5 years.