Ron Joyce Centre at the DeGroote School of Business | ? | 4 fl | Construction

[HAMRetrofit]

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

I've moved back to talking about Mac, because we are too way off topic with all this bickering. Post a link to the scientific study outlining how all the 905er's are overweight and hate their work environments and lets move on to talking about Mac.

I don't need to post a study just go visit one. I do this on a bi-weekly basis. I can see the condition of employees working there compared to downtown. My point was a gross exaggeration I realize. I never claimed that it was not. Just go visit one of these places and find what you see. Then go visit a central Toronto office. You will see the difference.

Either way the relevance of all this to the Mac campus is the environment people want to work in, compared to the ones that are most economical. There seems to be a disconnect. I will be choosing to do my MBA at a school located in a CBD. This is the environment that I like to work in. Many of my colleges feel the same way. This is my point, I am not going to provide you with a scientific study that is general consensus.

[I, Sinclair]

Originally Posted by HAMRetrofit

This is the environment that I like to work in. Many of my colleges feel the same way. This is my point, I am not going to provide you with a scientific study that is general consensus.

I would agree. Having worked at Bay and Adelaide for quite a few years, and now working in a million sq ft, one floor 905 office park, I will concur that most early career professionals would prefer a downtown school.

However, I would imagine that a Mac Exec MBA is targeting mid career applicants, who have probably already moved to the burbs to raise a family. A highway-side school is probably way more convenient than downtown hamilton or burlington.

I think the idea of a satellite campus specifically built just to address a market phenomena is contrary to the spirit and purpose of the institution of the university. Schools should not chase market trends, especially when those trends have almost run their course.

Burlington Council is making the right decision. Build a proper institution downtown, that can serve the community, not meet consumer demand.

[raisethehammer]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A9659C8B63

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/272582

[flar]

Originally Posted by I, Sinclair

I think the idea of a satellite campus specifically built just to address a market phenomena is contrary to the spirit and purpose of the institution of the university. Schools should not chase market trends, especially when those trends have almost run their course.

I don't like it, but the trend in universities is to treat the students as clients or customers and try to please them in anyway possible.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A9659C8B63

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/272582

But the talk was about where people work, not where they live.

Posted on another post (I think by Retro) they felt that most of the people living in downtown Toronto condos travel to the suburbs for work. So, they must be just as overweight and depressed about their work environs and they are 416ers.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by I, Sinclair

I would agree. Having worked at Bay and Adelaide for quite a few years, and now working in a million sq ft, one floor 905 office park, I will concur that most early career professionals would prefer a downtown school.

However, I would imagine that a Mac Exec MBA is targeting mid career applicants, who have probably already moved to the burbs to raise a family. A highway-side school is probably way more convenient than downtown hamilton or burlington.

I think the idea of a satellite campus specifically built just to address a market phenomena is contrary to the spirit and purpose of the institution of the university. Schools should not chase market trends, especially when those trends have almost run their course.

Burlington Council is making the right decision. Build a proper institution downtown, that can serve the community, not meet consumer demand.

I agree, the market will be mid-career people looking to boost their careers to the next level. And I agree many of them already live in the suburbs. I would say it's a fact that most people move to a suburban setting as they get married and start families (mid-career). This happens for a variety of reasons (i.e. the 1 bedroom + den (closet) won't support a family, prices in the city are out of reach, etc....

I'm not pro-highway but I do agree people attending the campus will view easy highway access (not that downtown Burlington is too far from the highway) as a plus. Highway in Burlington makes it easy for anyone west of Mississauga and down to really St. Catherines to attend. Whether it's really easier or not, there will be a perception it's easier.

Unfortunately, with the days of reduced post-secondary funding universities act more like businesses and less like institutions of higher learning. There's a reason why Executive MBA's, are so desireable to these institutions. They make a lot of money for the schools.

[HAMRetrofit]

Maybe we should make the school a drive through with a Tim Hortons while we are at it.

Trust me, no one in the Toronto CBD business community is going take this location seriously. Business parks are largely frowned upon. We consistently make fun of 905 business parks and dread ever being moved to one. This school needs to be a serious establishment and a highway drive through just won't cut it. Sorry to who this might offend in business parks but you know what I am talking about.

[fastcarsfreedom]

HAMRetrofit--you seem to be gainfully employed in the business community--so I'm somewhat amazed by your mopic view on this issue. Firstly, Executive MBA programs (and students) are an entirely different demographic than those folks who go through with an MBA as a follow on to a BComm or other degree. Executive MBA students come from a variety of fields--accountants for the Provincial Government, bank branch managers, etc. Therefore, just because you and some of the your Bay Street counterparts don't want to be working in Newmarket, it doesn't negate McMaster's business plan for this satellite location.

While we're at it--I'm compiling a list of groups that are okay to ridicule in our Politically Correct world--so far I'm up to, 905ers, overweight people, Americans and Fundamental Christians--have I missed any?

[HAMRetrofit]

It is a matter of personal preference. I am grossly exaggerating my point. I have admitted to this. I am personally indifferent to your list. I never claimed that there was anything wrong with the 905 or people working in business parks. It is not like it is their fault they end up there.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

HAMRetrofit--you seem to be gainfully employed in the business community--so I'm somewhat amazed by your mopic view on this issue. Firstly, Executive MBA programs (and students) are an entirely different demographic than those folks who go through with an MBA as a follow on to a BComm or other degree.

I believe that McMaster's plan is/was to fully locate/relocate both MBA streams to Burlington. The unversity does not really have an executive MBA program in place just yet.

[raisethehammer]

not to sure where to put this, but yes, for the first time ever, I'm jealous of something being built in Burlington:

http://www.stratacondos.ca/

25 stories of condo goodness with ground floor retail.
These guys kill me...it's Molinaro again. Head office in downtown Hamilton, yet they only build offices here - fed building and that new one at Main/Hughson.
How about a condo tower here fellas??

[adam]

Burlington downtown is a great area with a lot of growth and all kinds of amenities. You have every right to be jealous. Hamilton has a looong way to go to play catch up.

[raisethehammer]

I'm not jealous of their downtown at all. I think the place is dead as a doorknob. I just like the look of this building. I'd move away if downtown Hamilton ever became as lifeless as burlingtons.

[flar]

Downtown Burlington has some life, the waterfront park is always really busy. They also have a lot of cafes and patios that are fairly busy. On the other hand downtown Burlington is small, Village Square is dead and the streetlife is not nearly as diverse and interesting as Hamilton's.

[raisethehammer]

I guess you have to know when to arrive.
I was over there twice recently for an appointment.
beautiful sunny days early evening and mid-day.
both times, everything was empty and streets were devoid of life.
patios were empty, cafes were empty. Maybe I'm in the wrong spot. I was on Brant and then around the corner on Lakeshore where all these apartments are being built.
Both times I came back downtown Hamilton afterwards to streets filled with people, patios full on James,Hess,Augusta and a much more vibrant scene.
Burlington only seems to be busy during Ribfest.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Everyone finds Downtown Burlington to be "dead"--yet it is the home of several developments the likes of which everyone here salivates over--wishing such would come to Hamilton. Could it be, as has been suggested repeatedly, that these upscale type buildings do nothing to add to the type of vibe everyone seems to be seeking? Could it be that Stinson's tower, had it come to fruition, merely have been filled with folks who drove in/out of the garage and rarely walked out the lobby doors?

[raisethehammer]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

Everyone finds Downtown Burlington to be "dead"--yet it is the home of several developments the likes of which everyone here salivates over--wishing such would come to Hamilton. Could it be, as has been suggested repeatedly, that these upscale type buildings do nothing to add to the type of vibe everyone seems to be seeking? Could it be that Stinson's tower, had it come to fruition, merely have been filled with folks who drove in/out of the garage and rarely walked out the lobby doors?

you'll always have some of that, no matter where you are.
Downtown TO has seen a ton of that sort of development with a ton of people using cars.
Hamilton would have seen a lot more people on the street simply due to the already existing urban environment. Similar (but not as dense) as TO.
Burlington's is largely suburban and I'm guessing most buyers in these projects are older folks, not young 'hipsters' looking for a cool urban experience which is what you see in downtown Hamilton. We get the older folks too, but a good mix. Burlington seems more like a bedroom community for well-off white folks.
It's nice to see some condos, but they've got a lot of work and a lot of years ahead if they ever want a real downtown.

[flar]

I would imagine downtown Burlington is dead during the daytime, the people living in those condos are largely middle class and work 9 to 5. I've only been there on weekday evenings and a Sunday afternoon, each time there were a lot of people out. The phototour of Burlington I did was on a Tuesday evening around 7 to 9 pm.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

not to sure where to put this, but yes, for the first time ever, I'm jealous of something being built in Burlington:

http://www.stratacondos.ca/

25 stories of condo goodness with ground floor retail.
These guys kill me...it's Molinaro again. Head office in downtown Hamilton, yet they only build offices here - fed building and that new one at Main/Hughson.
How about a condo tower here fellas??

This project has been in development for a while. The Ribfest sponsorship makes it seem newer than it is. For the past couple of years they've been fighting a 20-year-old zoning bylaw that would cap the site at 10 storeys -- 25 storeys would make this Burlington's tallest building.

I've heard rumours that Molinaro Group may in the process of moving their HQ to Burlington, possibly to get leverage for Strata. I have a feeling that the location of Burlington's downtown and the city's willingness to plunk condos along its waterfront are factors behind the development of 360 on Pearl, Spencer’s Landing, Bunton’s Wharf etc. Strata, at a half-km from the water (and the QEW, commuters will be pleased to learn), is the firm's most inland offering yet. Pretty much everything they build is spitting distance from the water.

[SteelTown]

Yep, downtown Burlington is a 9 to 5 area. After 5pm downtown Burlington shows sign of life. Weekends it's really busy, especially the waterfront. But that's typical in most suburban areas.