How COVID is creating opportunities in the suburbs

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Handro

I think that's up for debate. Someone from suburban Chicago could cause quite a stir by identifying themselves as a Chicagoan.

hell, i was born and raised up in wilmette (an older late 19th/early 20th railroad suburb), but i've lived within chicago city limits (in 7 different neighborhoods) for the past 2+ decades, and from time to time even i get the old "you're not from the city, you grew up in the burbs" thing from some of my more provincial city-raised friends.

(ironically, one of the worst offenders just bought a house in oak park, so i get to return all of that shit to him now )

but a lot of that is because chicago is an old-school city with some deeply entrenched old-school attitudes. i would imagine that in a much newer and more transient city like houston, that kind of extreme provincialism is much less pronounced.

[The North One]

Seeing this apartmentapp/zillow "data" being constantly shared is infuriating.

This is meaningless junk that says absolutely nothing.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

hell, i was born and raised up in wilmette (an older late 19th/early 20th railroad suburb), but i've lived within chicago city limits (in 7 different neighborhoods) for the past 2+ decades, and from time to time even i get the old "you're not from the city, you grew up in the burbs" thing from some of my more provincial city-raised friends.

(ironically, one of the worst offenders just bought a house in oak park, so i get to return all of that shit to him now )

but a lot of that is because chicago is an old-school city with some deeply entrenched old-school attitudes. i would imagine that in a much newer and more transient city like houston, that kind of extreme provincialism is much less pronounced.

I get a lot of city vs. suburb razzing from my girlfriend's old school Chicago family--provincial is definitely the way to describe it. I've lived in the city for 15 years, but because I grew up in the suburbs they like to crack wise here and there. I chuckle because they live in Galewood/Jefferson Park/Norwood--neighborhoods so far from city center, so filled with strip malls and parking lots, and so reliant on auto transport that they are just as suburban as any pre-war suburb. In fact, I can walk to the grocery store, restaurants, bars, etc from my parents house in the burbs more easily than I can from her parents house in Norwood Park.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Handro

I think that's up for debate. Someone from suburban Chicago could cause quite a stir by identifying themselves as a Chicagoan.

To me, someone living in Schaumburg or Naperville is still 'Chicago'. They mostly likely work in Chicago proper, were born there, root for Da Bears, and so on. I get the provincialism, my home town (Utica) is kinda like that and people tend to identify more with their town or village (suburbs) but still were 'Utica'.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by JManc

To me, someone living in Schaumburg or Naperville is still 'Chicago'. They mostly likely work in Chicago proper, were born there, root for Da Bears, and so on. I get the provincialism, my home town (Utica) is kinda like that and people tend to identify more with their town or village (suburbs) but still were 'Utica'.

for sure. to an outsider, anyone from chicagoland is going to be "chicago".

handro and i were talking about this weird quirk of some city born and raised people who get EXTREMELY provincial about who can and who cannot claim a "chicago" or "city" identity.

i most notice it from the white ethnic demographic, 2nd or 3rd gen white kids on the NW side who were born and raised in the city during the peak white-flight decades ('60s - '90s). their "city-ness" is a badge of honor to them because their family stuck it out and didn't bolt for the burbs like everyone else seemingly did. they can get awfully protective of who is and, more importantly, who is NOT "from the city".

as i said before, this kind of hyper-local provincialism is probably much less common in a city like houston.

[Segun]

^ Dan, is "what High School did you go to?", asked to size you up, a mostly Black Chicagoan phenomenon or is found among White people too?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Segun

^ Dan, is "what High School did you go to?", asked to size you up, a mostly Black Chicagoan phenomenon or is found among White people too?

sometimes, among "city people".

the deal, though, is that a pretty large % of my white peers in this town grew up michigan, or wisconsin, or ohio, or wherever and don't give a single fuck about chicago high schools.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

sometimes, among "city people".

the deal, though, is that a pretty large % of my white peers in this town grew up michigan, or wisconsin, or ohio, or wherever and don't give a single fuck about chicago high schools.

And the Ohioans and Missourans who moved to Chicago probably did so partly to get away from the native Cincinnatians and St. Louisans who get awfully provincial about that sort of stuff.

[Crawford]

Yes, I've noticed that Cincy and St. Louis people are big with the "what HS did you go to".

Weird question to be asking 40-yo people.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yes, I've noticed that Cincy and St. Louis people are big with the "what HS did you go to".

Weird question to be asking 40-yo people.

it’s a long-time class identifier in st. louis. the private schools are neatly stratified but so are the public school districts more generally. for instance jon hamm taught ellie kemper (who comes from missouri old money) at john burroughs and that is towards the top.

i guess more recently its become more of a running joke to ask it mocking the culture.

no doubt STL is provincial AF but i REALLY think the "where'd you go to high school" thing gets been blown out of proportion these days. i'm in my early 40's and i haven't been asked where i went to high school in years. on top of that, the private catholic schools that drove the phenomenon have been drying up and closing/consolidating for the past 20 years. but it's low-hanging fruit if you're looking to disparage STL, i suppose. and who isn't, really?

[JManc]

The 'high school' thing is common where I grew up because it's an insular area with few newcomers so vast majority went to HS in the area.

Native Houstonians sometimes mention high school to other natives.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by Segun

^ Dan, is "what High School did you go to?", asked to size you up, a mostly Black Chicagoan phenomenon or is found among White people too?

My girlfriend is Filipino and has a considerable amount of Mexicans and white people in her (huge) extended family and they all love talking about which high school people went to.

In addition to the other Midwestern cities people mentioned, I've noticed it a lot in the Twin Cities as well. I've always thought it was just like asking "where are you from?" among people who are all from the same place.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by IWant2BeInSTL

no doubt STL is provincial AF but i REALLY think the "where'd you go to high school" thing gets been blown out of proportion these days. i'm in my early 40's and i haven't been asked where i went to high school in years. on top of that, the private catholic schools that drove the phenomenon have been drying up and closing/consolidating for the past 20 years. but it's low-hanging fruit if you're looking to disparage STL, i suppose. and who isn't, really?

thats what my last sentence was getting at, and STL isn’t unique in this sort of thing. i suspect this was once more widespread but has been replaced by (slightly) more sophisticated means of identifying american aristocracy.

st. louis is an interesting, very clear lens through which to observe the bare structure of american social behavior though since everything is so mask-off and doesn’t possess the extra layers of cultural sedimentation you see on the coasts.

it lacks bullshit ornamentation on structures that even the costumes of the veiled prophet cannot conceal, and in fact reveals.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by JManc

Native Houstonians sometimes mention high school to other natives.

That's the type of thing us "native" Torontonians might ask when meeting a fellow native Torontonian. It's just a point of interest and usually a better indicator of where someone is from than their neighbourhood.

In these cases it's the opposite of provincialism - in such a transient city, it's a comparatively novel experience to meet someone else who actually grew up there.

Originally Posted by Centropolis

oof. everything about veiled prophet makes me cringe. if one wanted to emphasize the incognizance of the STL "elite" to their own insularity one need look no further.

Originally Posted by Handro

I've always thought it was just like asking "where are you from?" among people who are all from the same place.

the times i have been asked it's always been a "do you know anyone that i know?" type of question and not a "are you upper crust?" type of question.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Handro

I think that's up for debate. Someone from suburban Chicago could cause quite a stir by identifying themselves as a Chicagoan.

This may be a hackneyed observation at this point but anyone who wants to move to the suburbs as a result of this crisis was going to move to the suburbs at some point anyway. It just motivated them to do it sooner. In that sense it probably created some short term opportunities in the suburbs.

If true that doesn't speak much to the attractiveness of cities for attractiveness' sake.

It suggests that lots of people hold their noses and live in the city for practical or economic reasons. Not because they actually like it.

I don't happen to think that's true. Or at least, it's far from being true for everyone.

But it's also true of the suburbs. There are also people who live in the suburbs because they can't afford to live in the city or because everything doesn't add up for them personally in order to make a move to the city work.

That's one problem with these debates. Everyone thinks that everyone else who happens to live in a different setting than they do, actually wishes they could switch places with them. When that's far from being true for most of us.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If true that doesn't speak much to the attractiveness of cities for attractiveness' sake.

It suggests that lots of people hold their noses and live in the city for practical or economic reasons. Not because they actually like it.

I don't happen to think that's true. Or at least, it's far from being true for everyone.

But it's also true of the suburbs. There are also people who live in the suburbs because they can't afford to live in the city or because everything doesn't add up for them personally in order to make a move to the city work.

That's one problem with these debates. Everyone thinks that everyone else who happens to live in a different setting than they do, actually wishes they could switch places with them. When that's far from being true for most of us.

I do think there are people who live in suburbs but would rather live in a city, just as I think there are people who live in the city who would rather live in the suburbs. There are all sorts of finincial and psychological constraints that keep people where they are.

But I was referring specifically to middle/upper-middle class young people who are destined for a life in the suburbs once they get their fill of trendy nightlife and brunches and get established enough in careers and relationships that allow them to comfortably buy a house and a car in a bedroom community. Those are the people who may be compelled to move to the suburbs sooner now that COVID has made what might have been their last 2-5 years of city living less enjoyable.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If true that doesn't speak much to the attractiveness of cities for attractiveness' sake.

It suggests that lots of people hold their noses and live in the city for practical or economic reasons. Not because they actually like it.

I don't happen to think that's true. Or at least, it's far from being true for everyone.

There are definitely many, many, many, many, many, many, many. MANY. MANY!!, people who are only living in NYC for practical or economic reasons. NYC is not an easy, stress free city to live in, so that should not be a surprise to anybody. That's partly why these doom-and-gloom scenarios about post-pandemic NYC don't make sense. Many of those people who were here only for practical reasons will still be inclined to come back for practical reasons post-pandemic.