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  #17561  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2024, 1:08 PM
locolife locolife is offline
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Originally Posted by nushiof View Post
How soon do we think we’ll see renderings of the new entertainment district?
Renderings for a project that is actually funded and based on studies that represent real world plans? Really hard to say…

The only imminent plans are to get NHL locker rooms, pick a name (maybe?) and possibly sell some tickets? Not sure on when the last two will happen.
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  #17562  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2024, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by locolife View Post
Renderings for a project that is actually funded and based on studies that represent real world plans? Really hard to say…

The only imminent plans are to get NHL locker rooms, pick a name (maybe?) and possibly sell some tickets? Not sure on when the last two will happen.
Not to sound dickish (but it absolutely will be dickish - just a ribbing, tho) but I have to laugh at you over here sounding like you're privy to anything related to this and how far they are in their timeline.
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  #17563  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2024, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by locolife View Post
Renderings for a project that is actually funded and based on studies that represent real world plans? Really hard to say…

The only imminent plans are to get NHL locker rooms, pick a name (maybe?) and possibly sell some tickets? Not sure on when the last two will happen.
Your last question has already been answered, emphatically.

Ryan Smith didn’t know how many fans had made deposits for season tickets, because the number had climbed so rapidly since the NHL Board of Governors voted to establish a new franchise in Utah little more than 24 hours before.

“Where are we at?” he asked.

The updated figure was about 22,700.

“OK,” he said. “That’s good.”
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  #17564  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2024, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by i-215 View Post
Am I the only one who still feels very uncomfortable with the idea of spending billions demolishing the convention center to build an entertainment district (a few bars, restaurants, etc.)?

Especially when there are vacant lots to the block north. Would not SEG be wiser to contract with Property Reserve to build on their parking lots instead?
They have been in contact with the church by some accounts. The problem is that although the church may be discussing potential solutions they probably aren’t keen to give up property they’ve held for decades with their own tentative plans to now let it be used for an arena. They own a lot of contiguous land (minus the streets) and a simple land swap would screw that up. It’s not impossible but seems a hard sell for negotiators.

I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with the price tag. I’m kind of ambivalent because while I don’t believe citizens will gain a financial return on the investment, there is a cultural benefit from adding another pro sports team that you can’t put a price on and I want it to be centered on Salt Lake City. That benefit won’t be worth it to everybody though. It’s a ton of money. Some of the highest public spending in the history of the state. And it only affects slc. Sure, people other than slc residents spend money in the city but it would disproportionately impact slc residents.

Now, if the arena plans ended up moving to point of the mountain do we think a tax would be levied only within the municipality in which it is built? I don’t—and I think Salt Lake sees a tax raise no matter where the arena goes, unless citizens really rise up to defeat this. That puts Salt Lake residents in a bit of a quandary where I’m sure the bulk of them want the arena in slc, but if they fight the tax they risk the arena moving elsewhere and paying some sort of tax for it anyway. Is there room for changes and negotiation on that front? I don’t know but doesn’t seem like there is much, if any. And with the compressed timeline being pushed, leaders and citizens may feel pressure to cave and get it done before minds are changed and the arena gets moved.

I don’t like it but I’m going along with it because I’m excited about the result and recognize the city hardly holds a lot of cards here. It’s not exactly fair but it is the reality. Admittedly I’m not an slc resident but I hope to be again within a few months.
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  #17565  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2024, 1:37 PM
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For me, one exciting aspect of the NHL moving to downtown SLC is the prospect of it being one of those scenarios that raises all development boats. Having 40 to 60 additional major crowds descending on downtown each year will have a definite impact on business and not just bars and restaurants. I would be willing to bet that the opportunities to attract investors willing to throw their hats into the ring for projects like the West Quarter, The Domain Tower on W. Temple, and the Hines Theater Tower will increase even in these difficult times. I wouldn't be surprised if Property Reserve shortened its startup time frame on several projects such as the major Elks Center redevelopment on South Temple, the Cascade and Utah Woolen Mills Towers, or Social Hall Avenue residential. Perhaps, we'll even begin to see movement on those massive South Temple surface parking lots. At the very least development taking the parking subterranean in preparation for the Olympics. Given the fast pace of what Smith wants to take place with the Delta Center and its surroundings, we probably won't have to wait too long to see movement on multiple projects that we didn't expect any progress on for another two or more years. These are great times to be a development fan for Salt Lake City.

Just another thought. How many Fortune 500 sports nerd CEOs or board decision-makers were hesitant to relocate their national or regional headquarters to Salt Lake only for lack of more Major League Teams? Given all of Salt Lake's heralded advantages that is probably one of the few stumbling blocks remaining. Also, as with COVID, the current social unrest is only going to heat up over the Summer pushing a lot of decision-makers and 1 percenters to relocate to the relatively highly educated peaceful system of the Wasatch Front.

I was just noticing the other day in the University 500 Rankings that both Utah and BYU are ranked in the top 50. Utah in the 40's and BYU #20 now.

Last edited by delts145; Apr 27, 2024 at 1:52 PM.
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  #17566  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2024, 1:52 PM
locolife locolife is offline
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Originally Posted by Boz View Post
Your last question has already been answered, emphatically.

Ryan Smith didn’t know how many fans had made deposits for season tickets, because the number had climbed so rapidly since the NHL Board of Governors voted to establish a new franchise in Utah little more than 24 hours before.

“Where are we at?” he asked.

The updated figure was about 22,700.

“OK,” he said. “That’s good.”
I'm well aware of this, which is great, 22,000+ refundable deposits of $100 each have been placed. We all know that is way more then actual unobstructed seats that will be available. And I think the deposit gets someone a spot in line to buy season tickets, but is that priority based on when you signed up? Is there other factors? I have family that have done this for multiple seats, they hope to buy some but have no idea what it will cost and when any info will be available. It seems that nothing along those lines has been shared by the owner or team.

I’m not privy to these types of details so figured I'd ask on here if anyone by chance knew.

Last edited by locolife; Apr 27, 2024 at 4:24 PM.
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  #17567  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2024, 2:03 PM
locolife locolife is offline
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Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
For me, one exciting aspect of the NHL moving to downtown SLC is the prospect of it being one of those scenarios that raises all development boats. Having 40 to 60 additional major crowds descending on downtown each year will have a definite impact on business and not just bars and restaurants. I would be willing to bet that the opportunities to attract investors willing to throw their hats into the ring for projects like the West Quarter, The Domain Tower on W. Temple, and the Hines Theater Tower will increase even in these difficult times. I wouldn't be surprised if Property Reserve shortened its startup time frame on several projects such as the major Elks Center redevelopment on South Temple, the Cascade and Utah Woolen Mills Towers, or Social Hall Avenue residential. Perhaps, we'll even begin to see movement on those massive South Temple surface parking lots. At the very least development taking the parking subterranean in preparation for the Olympics. Given the fast pace of what Smith wants to take place with the Delta Center and its surroundings, we probably won't have to wait too long to see movement on multiple projects that we didn't expect any progress on for another two or more years. These are great times to be a development fan for Salt Lake City.

Just another thought. How many Fortune 500 sports nerd CEOs or board decision-makers were hesitant to relocate their national or regional headquarters to Salt Lake only for lack of more Major League Teams? Given all of Salt Lake's heralded advantages that is probably one of the few stumbling blocks remaining. Also, as with COVID, the current social unrest is only going to heat up over the Summer pushing a lot of decision-makers and 1 percenters to relocate to the relatively highly educated peaceful system of the Wasatch Front.

I was just noticing the other day in the University 500 Rankings that both Utah and BYU are ranked in the top 50. Utah in the 40's and BYU #20 now.
I’ve looked into this topic and it’s hard to find any data that says pro sports adds any real meaningful economic activity. This is one of the big data points used against public subsidies for stadiums.

You can find a lot of articles like this stating that the impact is less than most people think.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/publ...orts-stadiums/
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  #17568  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2024, 2:15 PM
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We shall see, won't we? Given the amount of investment about to occur in real estate redevelopment downtown, it's hardly a far-fetched notion. Besides, judging from the percentage of my predictions over the past almost 20 years on this forum actually happening, it might not be a forgone conclusion but at least it's a reasonable possibility. Perhaps it will take a little more than within this year's announcements, but it will happen within a reasonably sped-up time frame.
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  #17569  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2024, 3:52 PM
locolife locolife is offline
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Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
We shall see, won't we? Given the amount of investment about to occur in real estate redevelopment downtown, it's hardly a far-fetched notion. Besides, judging from the percentage of my predictions over the past almost 20 years on this forum actually happening, it might not be a forgone conclusion but at least it's a reasonable possibility. Perhaps it will take a little more than within this year's announcements, but it will happen within a reasonably sped-up time frame.
What is it your predicting will happen? I'm truthfully not clear, is it that multiple Fortune 500 companies will announce plans to relocate their HQs to downtown SLC within the next few years, and in part the reason will be mentioned that the NHL now being there was a factor in their decision to do this? We will always see, and there's always next year.
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  #17570  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2024, 5:01 PM
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^^^

I apologize for not inserting an "I predict this and I predict that." Also, of course, I should have inserted likely-to-happen percentages too.

Last edited by delts145; Apr 27, 2024 at 5:19 PM.
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  #17571  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 4:32 PM
locolife locolife is offline
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Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
^^^

I apologize for not inserting an "I predict this and I predict that." Also, of course, I should have inserted likely-to-happen percentages too.
Just clarifying what you meant with regards to the Fortune 500 HQs coming to SLC due to hockey now being there. Hard to find any data that shows this type of thing happens, so curious why SLC would be different.

If you don't want to talk about it that's cool.

Cheer Delts, enjoy your weekend.
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  #17572  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2024, 8:02 PM
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Nebula3lem123 Nebula3lem123 is offline
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Not speaking for them of course, but in my eyes is seems that major sports teams help cities *feel* larger, and large companies typically like to be positioned in major cities. Similar to how the 2002 Olympics caused a boom in development and the tourism industry, I wouldn't be surprised if NHL + MLB + 2034 Olympics add up to another, maybe even larger boom, but this time concentrated around the teams, aka downtown.

Edit: So basically just vibes TBH

Last edited by Nebula3lem123; Apr 28, 2024 at 8:06 PM. Reason: additional thoughts
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  #17573  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2024, 3:49 PM
ucsbgaucho ucsbgaucho is offline
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Originally Posted by locolife View Post
I'm well aware of this, which is great, 22,000+ refundable deposits of $100 each have been placed. We all know that is way more then actual unobstructed seats that will be available. And I think the deposit gets someone a spot in line to buy season tickets, but is that priority based on when you signed up? Is there other factors? I have family that have done this for multiple seats, they hope to buy some but have no idea what it will cost and when any info will be available. It seems that nothing along those lines has been shared by the owner or team.

I’m not privy to these types of details so figured I'd ask on here if anyone by chance knew.
From what I've heard in other reports, Jazz season ticket holders will get to be front-of-the-line in buying season tickets for hockey, and then everyone else will have that opportunity based on their order in the deposit line.
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  #17574  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2024, 3:58 PM
ucsbgaucho ucsbgaucho is offline
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Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
We shall see, won't we? Given the amount of investment about to occur in real estate redevelopment downtown, it's hardly a far-fetched notion. Besides, judging from the percentage of my predictions over the past almost 20 years on this forum actually happening, it might not be a forgone conclusion but at least it's a reasonable possibility. Perhaps it will take a little more than within this year's announcements, but it will happen within a reasonably sped-up time frame.
While it's not universal across the board, I think those cities that have built stadiums in downtown areas where there wasn't much development, a few years later those areas are completely transformed. Look at Petco Park in San Diego, it's a dramatic difference in what that area, which was not a great part of their downtown, looks like now compared to when construction started. Part of that is due to planning when the stadium was constructed and the developer of the stadium also being a big real estate developer. But the amount of high-rise condo towers in the immediate area is stunning.

If not done right, you get places like Kansas City, where the baseball and football stadiums are an island in the middle of an ocean of parking lot, the closest commercial seems to be a Taco Bell and a Best Western (oh and a Subway). Or Dallas, building a football and 2 baseball stadiums out in suburbia, surrounded by parking lots as well and not much else.

If done right, a stadium or arena can be a major catalyst for construction that general area of a city vs another part of the city. Doubt it has a direct correlation, but with the right planning and forward-thinking minds envisioning 10 years down the road, you can definitely get an arena that is surrounded by a lot of new construction, high energy area with things to do, eat and see outside of gamedays. ANd an extra 41 (minimum) nights of activity throughout the winter, when normally people in Utah would not be out that much, will have a huge effect.
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  #17575  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2024, 5:33 PM
ucsbgaucho ucsbgaucho is offline
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Big story in the SL Tribune on the arena plans... Here are some highlights (the article is VERY lengthy so even the highlights below are lengthy):

In particular, the plan primarily involves city blocks east of the arena, the current primary tenant of which is the Salt Palace Convention Center. Salt Lake County owns the center’s 515,000 square feet of exhibition space, along with the land the center is placed on — placing the county, too, at the heart of negotiations about the sports district.

Multiple versions of a revitalization plan have circulated among government officials. Most involve a massive downsizing of the convention center, allowing room for the development of Smith’s entertainment district, which would include housing, retail, offices, hotels and restaurants.

Some versions of the plan include reopening 100 South, which is currently covered by the Salt Palace between West Temple and 200 West, as a pedestrian walkway.

...

The county also owns the land which includes Abravanel Hall and the Utah Museum of Contemporary Art. Some versions of the Smith group plans see significant changes, renovations or even new buildings entirely for those cultural centers. Abravanel Hall turns 45 this year, and some see the concert hall as potentially needing reconstruction or movement.

Also pointing toward these blocks: this year’s omnibus liquor bill, HB548. It creates a “designated project area zone” of three blocks between South Temple and 100 South from West Temple to 400 West. There, Utah’s laws prohibiting bars near community locations will no longer apply beginning May 1.

A source familiar with the negotiations said that loosening of liquor laws just blocks from Temple Square and LDS Church headquarters would not have been possible without sign-off from Utah’s predominant faith.

...

But Salt Lake County Council member Jim Bradley is concerned by the potential changes he’s seen and heard — mostly due to its potential impact on the arts buildings in those blocks.

“Tearing down stuff because it is in the way is not something you just do willy-nilly. Take the example of Abravanel Hall: That would be a tragedy to tear that down and build it somewhere else,” he said. “Some people are saying, ‘Well, it needs more in rehab than what it would take to tear it down and rebuild it.’ Well, that is developers talking, ‘There’s that building that’s in my way.’

...

Dugan also hoped to see other areas surrounding the Delta Center improved as part of the project, which could prove difficult. To the north lies land owned by the LDS Church, including the Triad Center and the Park Place parking lot — land that the faith has so far proved reluctant to include in any development plans, saving it for its own use. To the south lies recent development, including two new hotels and an apartment complex.

The Gateway mall stands to the west, but Gateway representatives told The Tribune that Smith had not approached them about the property.

Overall, Smith compared the feel of his preferred entertainment district to that of L.A. Live, the sports and entertainment district in downtown Los Angeles. Built from 2007 to 2009, L.A. Live is located next to the Los Angeles Convention Center and Crypto.com Arena, home of the NBA’s Los Angeles Lakers, Clippers, and the NHL’s Kings.

To understand the project, Smith said he and “a few” city and public officials toured L.A. Live in the past month. There, they saw the district’s restaurants and bars, concert halls and movie theaters, and hotel and condominium towers on 27 acres.

...

That in-arena renovation will be significant, but not at first. This summer, the Smith group plans to make only minor improvements and adjustments to the Delta Center.

For the NHL’s previous preseason games at the arena, it hosted a capacity of about 11,000 fans with mostly unobstructed views. For NHL hockey this October, the team will install bleachers in the corners that add approximately another 1,000 seats. Officials also believe they can open up about 4,200 additional seats — though they have not yet decided whether they will, believing it might impact the overall experience for those fans.

New NHL locker rooms must be constructed for the home and away teams, and other various small changes made to the arena to allow NHL games to regularly be played. But overall, no major changes are expected. The arena also hosts more than 20 significant public events this offseason, such as the Utah Jazz’s summer league, concerts from varied artists like Blink-182, Olivia Rodrigo and Stevie Nicks, and comedy shows from Jo Koy and Kevin James.

Further construction would be in the offseasons to come, but the Smith group wants to wait until the plans are finalized outside of the arena to reveal those inside of it.

...

Smith, in his news conference, teased “new technologies” that he believed could create a quality NHL viewing experience with improved sightlines for hockey — while maintaining the Delta Center’s trademark NBA experience. That new technology is expected to involve the arena’s seat risers, which may be able to adjust to different settings, depending on the sport being played.

...

The city’s first in-public interaction with the plan comes May 7, when Smith Entertainment Group representative Mike Maughan will present details to the council. That discussion will also involve council members sharing their concerns and key decision points on the project.

Then, on May 21, a public hearing on the agreement is scheduled to take place. The council is tentatively scheduled to vote on the district agreement and tax increase July 2.
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  #17576  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2024, 5:33 PM
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To continue on the topic a bit, I do know that Salt Lake City did lose out on at least 2 Fortune 250 companies regional HQ's over the last 10 years due to a lack of sport options around downtown.

By this I mean that the Jazz were not enough of a pull. Hockey will definitely help this but I think it will take an MLB expansion/relocation to really help SLC to become a better corporate destination for expansion/relocation. MLB would really fill the gap and provide year round professional sporting opportunities within, essentially, a 7 - 10 minute Trax ride from Downtown. This on top of the soon to be 7 minute frequencies between the Airport and Downtown.

While I am hopeful of a Corporate HQ or Regional HQ relocation announcement happening soon (next 10-20 years), I am doubtful that it will happen without an MLB announcement for SLC.

Even without MLB and Fortune 500 relocations/expansions, we will continue to see the population of Downtown and along the Trax lines grow. I think we will also see expansions and relocations from local companies to the Downtown area as they take advantage of the increases in entertainment options that will be coming over the next decade downtown.
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  #17577  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2024, 5:52 PM
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A lot of hypothetical things could happen for a very real billion dollars.

I'm thrilled about the NHL, but I'm still opposed to a single dime of subsidy being given to Smith. Use tax money to revitalize and upgrade infrastructure in the area to support the project, but don't spend so many public dollars on an experience that will not verifiably benefit the taxpayers.

It seems so sinister to me that Smith gets to hold downtown hostage for a billion dollars and we've all gone along with it.
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  #17578  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2024, 6:07 PM
ucsbgaucho ucsbgaucho is offline
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Originally Posted by Paniolo Man View Post
A lot of hypothetical things could happen for a very real billion dollars.

I'm thrilled about the NHL, but I'm still opposed to a single dime of subsidy being given to Smith. Use tax money to revitalize and upgrade infrastructure in the area to support the project, but don't spend so many public dollars on an experience that will not verifiably benefit the taxpayers.

It seems so sinister to me that Smith gets to hold downtown hostage for a billion dollars and we've all gone along with it.
To me it doesn't sound like that's the way it's played out; he wanted to build a new arena and in SEG's mind the only space available to look at with enough room was down south; it was the mayor, legislature and even the Church that all stepped in to say "how can we get you to stay here?" I don't think you can really say he held them hostage; not like there were threats after NHL came to the Delta Center to say "pay for my upgrades and entertainment district or else I'm moving". Smith owns the team and the arena, so he was fully in his right to say "I want to build a new arena and district and I'm going to do it where land is cheap and plentiful, no hard feelings"... I don't think there was ever a real threat made to the state/city to pony up money "or else", I think it ended up being the state that determined it was worth that money to keep the teams there.
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  #17579  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2024, 6:44 PM
Makid Makid is offline
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Originally Posted by Paniolo Man View Post
A lot of hypothetical things could happen for a very real billion dollars.

I'm thrilled about the NHL, but I'm still opposed to a single dime of subsidy being given to Smith. Use tax money to revitalize and upgrade infrastructure in the area to support the project, but don't spend so many public dollars on an experience that will not verifiably benefit the taxpayers.

It seems so sinister to me that Smith gets to hold downtown hostage for a billion dollars and we've all gone along with it.
This is important to me as well. The current Convention Center provides between $50 and $70 Million annually to the local economy. Any adjustments to the Convention Center need to account for how it will impact future revenue.

The County needs to work to keep the Convention Center as near the current square footage for both exhibit and meeting space in order to sustain the current economic impact and value.
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  #17580  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2024, 6:55 PM
ucsbgaucho ucsbgaucho is offline
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Originally Posted by Makid View Post
This is important to me as well. The current Convention Center provides between $50 and $70 Million annually to the local economy. Any adjustments to the Convention Center need to account for how it will impact future revenue.

The County needs to work to keep the Convention Center as near the current square footage for both exhibit and meeting space in order to sustain the current economic impact and value.
Yah I think if they're going to demolish much of the CC on the west side, they need to first add that square footage onto the CC somewhere else, maybe building up another level. I would think those big shows like the Outdoor Expo and FanX want all that space, so you can't take away any square footage until you're ready to replace it. Will be interesting to see how they do things.
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