West LRT | 7 Stations | 8.0 KM | In Service

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Mike Wilhelm

We need more economists and behaviorists in city planning departments, I think. Too many social engineers.

I think the result is easy to justify, it's how best to get there.

The problem with your statement is many (both of the right and left) seem to view using economic incentives (or disincentives) as social engineering. Most glaring example would be the attacks on the Green Shift last year as social engineering, or on a more local level calling the Bow River Flow/Memorial Drive half closed thing social engineering.

I would argue that yes, it is social engineering, but then again what action of government isn't social engineering? As long as social engineering is used as a slur/pejorative, the term should just be avoided.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Originally Posted by Mike Wilhelm

We need more economists and behaviorists in city planning departments, I think. Too many social engineers.

I think the result is easy to justify, it's how best to get there.

And what, exactly, do you mean by "bevaviourists"? To put us all into rat mazes?

[Hed Kandi]

Originally Posted by Mike Wilhelm

From Wikipedia "Social engineering is the act of manipulating people into performing actions or divulging confidential information. While similar to a confidence trick or simple fraud, the term typically applies to trickery or deception for the purpose of information gathering."

Sometimes when I go to the bar, I socially engineer women to go home with me!

[Mike Wilhelm]

Thin skin (or parsing language) doesn't make for productive dialogue. It is Mike, formerly known as NIBMY, CAVE and BANANA. I was deeply hurt by all the loaded language on this forum, but was willing to persevere.

Don't get me started on the Memorial thing. Memorial closes every year for half a day to accommodate the Calgary Marathon, but nobody tries to make a political cause out of it. Gee, our community thought it would be good to close Bow Trail for our "Shagfest" party (Shaganappi).

Anyway:

The idea of an incentive isn't necessarily to bribe somebody to do a specific thing. It is to create incentives to innovate at the individual level. Not all good ideas come from central planners (shocking, but true).

In using "behaviorist" (poor word) I wanted to communicate the idea of economics that move past strict project cost / benefit analysis. I'd like to see creative economic incentives to innovate.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by fusili

Maybe they should hire me then. But then again I would have to work at the City.

Or they could hire me. Working for the City of Calgary can't be any worse than having to work anywhere in Ottawa...

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Mike Wilhelm]

frinkprof - as you might expect I've got a pretty thick skin by now.

I'd prefer some discussion of my comments concerning centralized planning vs individual incentives, but I notice this FORUM tends to devolve into the trivial issues like hurt feelings, so I'll play along.

On that note, I love the festival thing - think of the potential:

"Shagfest - we do it in the road."

[MalcolmTucker]

^

The thing is, those types of incentives (or disincentives/ removal of current incentives) are social engineering, which I don't think should have a negative connotation, as anything that tries to modify behaviour is social engineering.

Because in the end the local media ends up just talking about 'won't somebody just think of the children'.

[Mike Wilhelm]

So... what would be a creative incentive to encourage TOD along the West LRT line?

[MalcolmTucker]

The line itself is a pretty good incentive. Removing disincentives like having to go through a full city council meeting, with a traffic study, and shadowing study for every upzoning of even a single house to a duplex, adding a secondary suite, or a duplex to a fourplex even if it would meet all the requirements would be a good first step.

A mass rezoning of areas within 600m (maybe even 800m) of station heads to reflect concentric circles of gradually lower Floor Area Ratios (FAR) would allow the market to work while making sure a 40 story tower doesn't try to get approval 400m away from a station. Within these circles relaxing parking requirements would help too. Add in small scale Tax Increment Financing in the circles to widen sidewalks & replace street lights and improve the pedestrian realm (less than 10 million per station) and there you have it.

[Mike Wilhelm]

Totally agree on the simplification of the new land use process.

The park at Westbrook will be a good incentive.

Some totally "thinktank" ideas for Westbrook (some might be interim land use ideas until the project gains momentum):

• A farmer's market in proximity to the station (or any station)
  
• Incorporation of the westside police station into the LRT station (good from a security and a builder incentive perspective)
  
• Pedestrian access to the golf course perimeter (or future club house)
  
• Specific "community friendly" projects such as an incorporated recreation centre, elementary school, day care, museum or cultural facility
  
• On site housing for lower income staff employed within the project such as retail staff, maintenance personnel, child care workers, teachers

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Mike Wilhelm]

Employee housing is an important element - people who work in the development should be able to enjoy the benefits of living there. Huge incentive to keep the property maintained by active members of the community.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Let employees live where they want (and the market allows), they are on the transit line and even without a car they have huge options. If we build enough TOD the price will eventually come down to a sane level. 1 bedroom new build condos can be had for around $300 a square foot here in Toronto ($180k for 600 sq/ft). (even less for a bit more off the beaten path)

The city could also create a zoning class that allows for rentals only, or allow huge density bonusing for rental (under condition of no conversion for lets say 10 years) if they want to attract rental apartments instead.

[Mike Wilhelm]

I'm a bit lost - a greenfields suburban developer would want a school, rec centre etc., why would we not build these into TOD? Is TOD just for singles, and young/old couples with no kids?

And who rents in Calgary? Outside of the core, the cost to buy is low as compared to other cities , and you don't need to live in a rental tower (I have - not good).

Kyle, you seem to keep talking about cutting a real estate deal, and I'm trying to visualize what the community looks like after the deal is closed. Why not attact people to the development for reasons other than making a profit on their residence. Given demographics, I think there is better places to put your money than residential real estate anyway, and good communities reduce the money risk.

[MalcolmTucker]

Oh, I am just saying don't reserve spots for people specifically working in the TOD, not saying to not to try to make it attractive. Reserving spots is a huge distortion in the market.

[frinkprof]

Nevermind.

[Mike Wilhelm]

Good points - if they are down the LRT line, they are probably as good as next door. Also supports my prior post on having source and destination points along the LRT line - Westside can be a destination, or a source for downtown commuters. This can create ridership at non peak times - good planning.

I'm softly lobbying for a small meeting/convention/banquet facility to be incorporated into the eventual new golf course clubhouse - a nice alternative to convention facilities downtown, direct LRT access with a great view and adjacent driving range. Maybe a good watering hole for me and my new neighbour friends (and an occasional skyscraper guy that ventures outdoors).

Calgary is one of the few places that I wouldn’t want to own a rental property.

[srperrycgy]

Speaking as a renter, it all depends on the landlord. Some could give a crap about their tenants, while others (like mine) genuinely care about their properties. I've been really lucky with mine. Walking through Martindale along the LRT alignment a while ago, you could easily tell which homes were rentals and which were not.

I'm not a golfer by any means, but a facility at Shag. like you suggest would be a nice idea. Great views and good location.

We're off on a tangent here, let's try to get back on topic folks.

[Mike Wilhelm]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/technol...254/story.html

"The communities had a higher level of expectation" Nonsense. Overruns within the budget are likely due to the addition of a Bow Trail expansion project, which we didn't ask for, and erosion of the Manning land values. Yes, the 45 St tunnel is a "higher level of expectation", and appropriate, but is not in the budget yet. The single largest capital expenditure is the Westbrook station and tunnel.